Coco time!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Rootbound

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Gonna give COCO a shot. Picked up some suleaves bricks recently. How many of you mix with perlite? What pros and cons come from blending it? I have a huge bag of perlite left so I mixed it 33% perlite-- 67% coco. I have to use RO water since my tap water is 650ppms setting out for 24 hrs! I have cal-mag also and pbp veg and pbp bloom, liquid karma. Anything I am missing? RB
 
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Zoolander

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Maybe just wash the coco well unless you know it's clean and salt free but other then that sounds like your good to go . I mix the chunky perilite at 30 %
 
Rootbound

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Otto? I just picked up the Liquid Karma and was wondering what rates people use and how often? Thanks:flower
 
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hererisssh

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I use 8-10 ml per gallon in soil and hydro rb.
 
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Otto

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Oh im sorry, misunderstood, i use 5ml per gallon the whole way through.

-Otto
 
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pigfarmer

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Beware of the sunleaves coco... Your gonna need to prerinse the living daylights outta it to consider using it..

1st rinse on my block was over 3.0EC, I ended up tossing it in the outdoor veggie garden.

Just tryin to save ya a headache, I killed 20 seedlings within 10 days in the crap... :flower
 
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GDS StonerBoy

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Beware of the sunleaves coco... Your gonna need to prerinse the living daylights outta it to consider using it..

1st rinse on my block was over 3.0EC, I ended up tossing it in the outdoor veggie garden.

Just tryin to save ya a headache, I killed 20 seedlings within 10 days in the crap... :flower

Now that you say that, thats probably how i lost some very valuable seedlings but i have some very healthy girls growing in it right now.
 
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Rootbound

Rootbound

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Thanks for the heads up pf!! What brand do most use?
 
Rootbound

Rootbound

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Just checked the ppm of the coco with RO water and runoff was 860 ppms!!! Even though my tap water is 650 ppms I used it to flush with hot water and then I used the RO for the last part of the flush and now the runoff is 80 ppms. Does the coco naturally turn salty from the coco itself drying out or from nutes not being absorbed into it and drying on the outside of the coco? :flower RB
 
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pigfarmer

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Hmm... The stuff must have gotten better over the years, I had my run in with it about 3yrs ago... 1st rinse wouldn't even read on my EC meter it was so high..

Sounds like you are taking the proper steps on washing the salts out bro, after u get it all prerinsed you may consider dosing it with sum calmag & light nutes to get things ready to run..

Good luck maing! Myself, I'm sold & stuck on the B'cuzz 50L loose bagged coco, prerinsed, presteamed & buffered, I have never had success in other coco like I do the b'cuzz.. I hear the Canna Coco is great also, but I cannot find it anywhere close to me to test.

Here is a really good read that may help u out...

Coco Coir

Coco coir has become the media of choice amongst Australian growers over the past 5 years.

On a recent trip around Australia I was surprised to learn of the volumes of coir that retailers are now selling, with many (most) retailers telling me that coco coir now typically represents at least half, or more, of their media sales.

This speaks volumes about the humble coir because much of its’ ascending star has been driven by consumer choice and (hence) demand.

Positives
Occasionally I get onto websites and discuss coir with novice growers. The way I explain it to them is that coir represents the best of soil and hydro in a single media. While this is a simplistic method of describing coirs unique properties, it is also an effective way to help growers understand the media’s natural buffering qualities, natural root zone preservation qualities and the ability to provide optimized nutrition via hydroponic technologies.

To me, this makes coir the ideal media for novices who often grow in less than ideal environments. That is, coco coir, more so than any other media is extremely forgiving.

pH Buffering

Coco coir buffers at between pH 5.5 and 6.5. This means the media helps to maintain optimum root zone pH (resulting in optimum nutrient uptake).

Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC)

Coir has a high cation exchange capacity.

Cation exchange capacity refers a medias ability to exchange cations between mineral and organic matter and the plants roots.

Cations are positively charged elements such as calcium (Ca++), magnesium (Mg++), and potassium (K+).



Cations are held by negatively charged particles called colloids. The defining feature of colloids is that the particles are small and consequently the total surface area is huge. For this reason the negatively charged colloids are capable of holding enormous quantities of positively charged cations.

As plant roots uptake cations, other cations in the nutrient replace them on the colloid.

If there is a concentration of one particular cation in the media, other cations will force them off the colloid and take their place.

This means that a mineral balance is maintained in coir and these minerals are readily available for uptake.


Root Zone Health

Coco coir provides excellent insulation. This means that coco coir isn’t as prone to overheating, due to excessive ambient air temperatures, as many other mediums (making it ideal for warm geographical zones). This is because water tends to make its way into the lower regions of the coco coir, leaving the top layer dry. Because of this, heat needs to penetrate a drier top layer of coco coir before reaching the watered areas of the media. As water is a great conductor of energy (in the form of heat) the lower wet area being protected by a drier surface helps keep the lower areas of the media, where the bulk of the root mass is found, cooler. As media temperature and oxygen levels are interrelated (the warmer the media, the less oxygen) this insulation plays an important role in promoting root health.

Compare coco coir to rockwool, another run–to-waste media. There are some significant differences in moisture distribution and media insulation qualities. Rockwool tends to become evenly saturated. Water, thus, distributes evenly from top to bottom, leaving the rockwool, typically, very damp. This means that heat can travel throughout the media (dry rockwool is an excellent insulator; it is simply that water conducts heat). When the ambient air temperature is excessively warm, so too is the media. Depending on the extent of this problem (too warm – not enough oxygen), oxygen availability to the root zone can become dangerously low.

As I’ve already pointed out, coco coir tends not to do this. Water displaces from the surface of the media and moves into the lower regions. Because of this the media generally remains significantly cooler around the root zone of the plant.

Secondly, coco coir contains natural rooting compounds, in the form of potassium (electrolytes) and phosphorous (enzyme function/sugar production). Both potassium and phosphorous stimulate root growth and development.

Thirdly, coco coir has excellent air filled ‘porosity’ – the term used for the levels of oxygen availability (critical for transpiration) in the media. This is due to the large surface area of coco coir particles. As oxygen plays an all-important role in respiration (roots pumping nutrient to the plant) this factor further promotes root and (hence) plant health.

What all of these factors add up to is that coco coir provides a sound environment for the plant’s root zone. This factor should not be underestimated because healthy roots invariably lead to a healthy plant (and a healthy yield).


The Fundamentals of Coir (the good, the bad, and the ugly)

The coconut palm, unlike many other plants’, is a salt tolerant plant.

What happens with salt tolerant plants’ is that they uptake salt and displace it to areas of the plant where the salt can do the least harm. In the case of the coconut palm the salt is displaced to the coir – the very thing that we use as a growing media. This means coir can contain high levels of salt (sodium chloride), something which can prove toxic to many/most plants.

On top of this coir contains large amounts of potassium and quantities of other elements.

What this means is that coir requires special treatment to ensure a premium quality hydroponic media product is supplied to the end user.

Analysis of Coco Coir Sample

S 1978
P 126
K (Potassium) 3700*
Na (Sodium) 2022 *
Ca 119
Mg 104
Cu
Zn 3.2
Mn 3.8
Fe 12.2
B 7
Cl (Chloride) 3498*

All figures refer to parts per million (ppm).


Above, is an analysis of one batch of hydrated coco coir. It is easy to see that coco coir contains varying levels of micro and macro elements.

The most significant elements in the analysis are the high potassium levels and the extremely high sodium and chloride levels (sodium chloride = salt).

Potassium competes with magnesium and calcium while sodium competes with potassium for uptake. Furthermore, sodium chloride can be highly toxic to certain species of plants; even in relatively low levels, sodium chloride can have devastating effects on root health and development. For instance, this batch of coco coir caused phytotoxicity (yellowing of leaves, rusting/burning, sick plants etc) when trialled under controlled conditions next to another product that performed well.


Source of Material

Coir derived from palms that are grown 50kms inland will have far less sodium chloride present than coir that is derived from palms that are grown close to the sea. That is, less sodium chloride present in the soil results in less sodium chloride in the coir.

The origin of the coir is an important factor in determining the quality of the end product.



Flushing and Buffering

In order to prepare the raw coir product for use it is necessary to flush plentiful amounts of water through the product to wash out impurities (including sodium chloride).

Premium grade coir is then buffered with various elements to prepare the coir for use. This requires flushing the coir with mineral elements in order to compensate for potentially problematic levels of sodium chloride and potassium (and other elements where required).

For instance, Iron is sometimes used to offset sodium chloride while magnesium and calcium is used to compensate for the naturally present, often high levels of potassium and phosphorous (While potassium and phosphorous are naturally used by plants and are beneficial elements, extreme levels of these elements can result in imbalanced nutrition and mineral element lockout).

Typically, most suppliers of hydrated coir only flush the media and do not buffer it. This can prove detrimental to plant vigor and health, particularly in early growth.

Symptoms of toxicity include:

Rusting (particularly on leaf edges)
Yellowing
Slow stunted growth
Mineral deficiencies (due to uptake problems)
Purpling of stem


Treatment/Age of Raw Product


Coco coir has a shelf life where optimum performance is concerned (due to organic decomposition factors).

Ideally the raw coir used in hydroponic medias should be less than two years old.

Older coir is difficult to manage and will not last as long as newer coir.


Tips for using Coir


Run-to-waste regime

After many years of experimenting in coir, both in indoor and outdoor settings, with various crops I have found that running a 25% - 30% waste regime is the most user friendly means of growing in coir.

The 25 – 30% waste regime ensures that salt buildup in the media is kept to a minimum, and means flushing is typically never required; the agricultural standard being a 30% waste regime with the runoff being no more than 0.4EC higher than the original nutrient feed.

EC can be tested in the runoff and be compared to the nutrient EC.


Air Porosity

Typically, the bagged (hydrated) coir products sold via hydroponic outlets consists of fine particles and coir dust. While this means excellent fluid retention, it also means less than ideal air porosity in the media. Adding Perlite to the media will increase air porosity. A 60% coir to 40% Perlite mix being ideal (50/50 is also OK).

Another means of increasing air porosity is by mixing larger coir particles into the coir fines/dust, thus lifting the media and achieving a similar effect to a coir/perlite mix.

pH

Ideally, the nutrient should be maintained at between 6.1 (grow) and 6.3 (bloom).

pH cannot be measured in the runoff. Ie. The runoff does not accurately reflect what is happening within the coir where pH is concerned. To test the pH of coir, take a sample of the coir from the root zone and add 1 part of coir to 5 parts of distilled water, shake and measure pH.



Dealing With Sciaridae (Scarid Fly)

Perhaps one of the most complained about aspects of using coir is its affinity to Sciaridae (Scarid Fly). Sciaridae are attracted to organic and decomposing matter. This means coir (which is organic and decomposes) tends to attract Sciaridae.

No Biggie… They are easy to deal with!

Chemical Drench Options:

Active = Permethrin 50% (Brand name Axe etc; Group 3A insecticide; available through Ag suppliers in 1ltr quantities)

Permethrin is non-systemic and therefore leaves no residue in the plant when used as a drench.

Use at 2ml to 10ltr and water into media. Flush with pH adjusted solution after 2 hours.

Active = Diazonon (Organophosphate*) Diazonon is commonly used in the floriculture industry for eradication of fungus gnats. Application rates of 2ml – 6ml to 10ltr are used for this purpose. Diazonon can be found in various products (eg. Hortico Lawn Grub and Insect Killer etc). Treat a few plants first to test for Phytotoxicity.


Lorsban (Organophosphate*)

Lorsban can be used to eradicate Scarid Fly. Use at 1 - 2ml/10ltr. Treat a few plants first to test for Phytotoxicity.

Please Note: With all chemical pesticides HANDLE WITH CARE, KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN, and READ MANUFACTURER WARNINGS.


Biological options such as predatory nematodes and mites are an extremely effective means in which to control Sciaridae. Hypoaspis is a small aggressive mite that inhabits the upper layer of the media. Steinernema feltiae is a nematode that quickly controls Sciaridae larvae numbers.

Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis: GnatrolTM is a product that is sold in many countries for the control of Scarid Fly. Unfortunately it is not available in Australia. However, ‘Vectobac’, which is made by the same company (Valent Biosciences) is available through some pest control suppliers. Both Gnatrol and Vectobac contain Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis.

Yellow sticky traps (A must have in any grow room) hung at media height will trap the adult Sciaridae. This will help reduce numbers. More importantly it will allow growers to monitor whether Sciaridae are present in their growing environment (amongst other things).



Why B’cuzz Coir

Source

Atami B’cuzz has a joint partnership with a major coir producer in Sri Lanka. Atami ships compressed coir to the Netherlands where it undergoes rigid batch testing and treatment.

Because Atami owns its own facility in Sri Lanka they are able to guarantee the quality of the original untreated/raw product (age and origin).

Atami coir is sourced from coir that is grown 50km’s (or more) inland from the coast meaning the original coir source is low in sodium chloride. Furthermore, the coir is under two years old which means the coirs composition is ideal for use as a hydroponic media.


Treatment

Atami utilizes a unique steaming and buffering process for the coir at its facilities in the Netherlands and then ships it around the world. Atami is the only company in the world that uses this steaming process to flush impurities from the media.

In this process, the coir is initially saturated with calcium and magnesium solutions. After this, the coir is steamed to 900 C and then flushed with large amounts of water; the combination of these two processes ensures that impurities are efficiently and effectively flushed from the media.

After this B’cuzz coir is lightly fertilized to achieve optimized nutritional balance within the media.

Air Porosity

There are two methods used for measuring Air Filled Porosity (AFP) in the coir. These are:

The European EN-method: Loose coir (no compression) is saturated with water and allowed free drainage for 24hrs. AFP is then measured. Atami coir measures at 35 – 40% AFP under this method.

The Dutch BLGG method: Coir is slightly compressed in a container and saturated with water where it is then allowed free drainage for 24hrs. Atami coir measures at 20 – 25% AFP under this method.


The final product comes with an RHP European quality assurance standard.

Because of Atami’s rigid standards, B’cuzz coir is one of the two largest selling coirs in the European retail hydroponics market.
 
Rootbound

Rootbound

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What a great post Pigfarmer!!!!! Thanks so much!!:flower RB
 
Rootbound

Rootbound

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Wow!! I just picked up a bag of loose coco instead of a brick of coco, they were out of bio-bizz:(:(!!! So I use some r.o. water at 5ppms to flush through it and ckeck the run-off ppm and it was 1006 ppm!!!!!!!!!!!!:(!!!!!!! WOW!!!! Looks like I have alot of flushing to do!!!Wish they would of had BIO-bizz!!!!or CANA!!! Oh well. How many other people have checked the run-off of new coco? If you have ,what were the ppms??? Thanks RB
 
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pigfarmer

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Which brand of loose coco did you buy? Was it B'cuzz by any chance? They pre innoculate with establishing nutes... I've never tested the runoff.. I just open and plant, I've never once had a problem dropping seeds or clones staight into the stuff w/o flushing.

I usually feed light for the 1st week or so, around 300ppms. They take off like mad mothers in the stuff.

I'll go do a rinse on a pot full of new B'cuzz now and see what it reads.. Will report back shortly.

EDIT* 380PPM runoff .5 scale, must not be B'cuzz?
 
Rootbound

Rootbound

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Thanks Pig!!! I will report back on the loose coco brand(1000+ppm runoff) when lights come on. Ths Sunleaves coco brick runoff was 850 ppm. Anyone else?:partyRB
 
Rootbound

Rootbound

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Hey Pig, That other brand was EZ COCO Phase 1. They also have some Readygro Moisture Coco. Ever heard anything good about that brand? RB
 
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pigfarmer

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Is the ready grow moisture 100% coco? I thought it had sum peat or sumthing mixed in with it?

Phase 1, ive heard works good, but does require a preflushing..
 
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