Could I Please Get A Little Help With Deficiency

[Tbone]

Hello Growers,
I have been lurking on this site for probably two years now but never had the nerve to actually post. So I thought I would introduce myself and see if anyone might have some input on a deficiency I am dealing with. Ive only been growing for about 18 months now but making a serious effort to learn. I set up a couple pretty nice rooms and feel I have done fairly well. And this website has been very helpful to me.
Anyway ,I recently installed a Intelliclimate climate controller and the last two grows under a computer controlled climate are showing deficiencies that I didnt get prior using the same strain. So I started off thinking it might be a enviromental issue. But now Im thinking its something different.

I run a sealed room:

• Co2 at 1500ppm and slowly drops to ambient levels as weeks go on through out flower (No outside air comes in so nightime co2 gets up to 1200ppm with burner off )
• Temps start out at 83 and slowly drop the same way
• Humidity at 60% and drops to 40% by the end of flower
• Using Fertmax Nutrients reaching 800ppm at peak flower
• PH in range 5.5 -6.5 and rarely need to adjust , Ph does drop when it starts getting booster.
• RO water with cal mag added back in.

So heres the problem:
, I flip to flower, And progressively the Leaves start cupping, the tips start to burn , the edges burn, and it gets worse throuought the flower cycle.
Temperature at the top of the canopy is good but leaves start to make the shape of a conoe on all areas of the plant except inside the canopy where there is no light.
So it starts out looking like a heat issue, then a couple weeks in it starts looking like a potash issue and nute burn. By the end of flower the leaves are cupping real bad and the leaves edges are all dried out

Heres the pictures of the problem I am having.
Pic 1: Early flower
Pic 2: Mid Flower
Pic 3 : Late flower

• I have tried Raising the light to the cieling but I dont think its a heat or light issue
• Ive tried cutting back on N and adding more Potash
• Ive tried upping the RH up to 65%

I have not tried:
a run using a lower ppm schedule. Could it just be simple nute burn?Can Nute burn cause Cupping ?
Anyway , this is really bugging me. Any input would be appriciated.
Thanks in advance
Terry

 

[EventHorizan]

Coco, soil, hydro???

 

[Tbone]

Coco, soil, hydro???

Current Culture RDWC

 

[EventHorizan]

What's your water temp? Does it drop during lights off?

 

[Tbone]

What's your water temp? Does it drop during lights off?

I have a chiller on the system and I would say it stays around 66-67 degrees round the clock.

 

[EventHorizan]

Has this only been happening since you started using co2? Pearly white roots? Have you checked for any larva or bugs in the roots? You are showing nute burn but I don't think it's from too much feed. I think something else is happening... What I'm not for sure. But I'm tagged in this till you or someone figures it out...

 

[Tbone]

Has this only been happening since you started using co2? Pearly white roots? Have you checked for any larva or bugs in the roots? You are showing nute burn but I don't think it's from too much feed. I think something else is happening... What I'm not for sure. But I'm tagged in this till you or someone figures it out...

i appreciate your efforts EventHorizan!
The iron in Fertmax nutes will turn the roots a slight tan color towards the end of the grow but other than that both runs , the root ball looked fine.
I have actually finished these runs but would like to pin this down before I flip another room.

CO2 ? Humm, The rooms were built as sealed rooms about 18 months ago. I have actually never ran the rooms without it. I run it in veg and the first couple weeks in flower at 1500ppm and then go to 1200ppm for a couple weeks and then 1000ppm , and so on. At week 8 i am usually at 7 or 800. I always wondered about the co2 build up at night because I dont bring in fresh air? It almost seems enviromental because I dont recall this problem before the enviroment controllers were installed. I never thought about it being a possible co2 issue?

 

[Tbone]

Has this only been happening since you started using co2? Pearly white roots? Have you checked for any larva or bugs in the roots? You are showing nute burn but I don't think it's from too much feed. I think something else is happening... What I'm not for sure. But I'm tagged in this till you or someone figures it out...

I built the rooms about 18 months ago and have never ran the rooms without it. I always wondered if the build up of co2 at night could cause an issue. But never thought about use of co2 in general. I veg with co2, then when I flip, I run it at 1500ppm for a couple weeks , and then go down to 1200 and so on till at week 8 I am at 7 or 800.
Yes , the roots are fine.
I am actually done with these two runs but would like to pin this down and try to fix before the next flip.
I have a few pics of the room. let me see if I can find a decent one to post.
This problem seemed to start when I installed the enviro controller. The sensor for co2 is now in the middle of the canopy where it used to be on the wall. The room may be getting more co2 now. Definetly something to think about.
Pic 1 ; Bare room
Pic 2 Grow before the enviro controllers
Pic 3 Another grow of the same strain with the new enviro controllers

 

[Tbone]

In the last two pictures I forgot to spell out what I was trying to show. without the controlled environment , I had a lot more stretch. More compact in with the enviro controllers.

 

[EventHorizan]

@DemonTrich Brother you run c02 in sealed rooms so your my best go to guy in these situations? Whats that look like to you?

 

[EventHorizan]

I built the rooms about 18 months ago and have never ran the rooms without it. I always wondered if the build up of co2 at night could cause an issue. But never thought about use of co2 in general. I veg with co2, then when I flip, I run it at 1500ppm for a couple weeks , and then go down to 1200 and so on till at week 8 I am at 7 or 800.
Yes , the roots are fine.
I am actually done with these two runs but would like to pin this down and try to fix before the next flip.
I have a few pics of the room. let me see if I can find a decent one to post.
This problem seemed to start when I installed the enviro controller. The sensor for co2 is now in the middle of the canopy where it used to be on the wall. The room may be getting more co2 now. Definetly something to think about.
Pic 1 ; Bare room
Pic 2 Grow before the enviro controllers
Pic 3 Another grow of the same strain with the new enviro controllers

Do you have a way to check c02 levels at different places? I think its c02 related. but that is just my gut with really no factual basis!

 

[EventHorizan]

I built the rooms about 18 months ago and have never ran the rooms without it. I always wondered if the build up of co2 at night could cause an issue. But never thought about use of co2 in general. I veg with co2, then when I flip, I run it at 1500ppm for a couple weeks , and then go down to 1200 and so on till at week 8 I am at 7 or 800.
Yes , the roots are fine.
I am actually done with these two runs but would like to pin this down and try to fix before the next flip.
I have a few pics of the room. let me see if I can find a decent one to post.
This problem seemed to start when I installed the enviro controller. The sensor for co2 is now in the middle of the canopy where it used to be on the wall. The room may be getting more co2 now. Definetly something to think about.
Pic 1 ; Bare room
Pic 2 Grow before the enviro controllers
Pic 3 Another grow of the same strain with the new enviro controllers

btw your garden looks great. I can see you have invested some quality time into it....

 

[EventHorizan]

In the last two pictures I forgot to spell out what I was trying to show. without the controlled environment , I had a lot more stretch. More compact in with the enviro controllers.

what was your comparable gpw between having it and not? Seeing that it effected stretch and canopy? Prob not much since you got de ballast.

 

[Tbone]

Do you have a way to check c02 levels at different places? I think its c02 related. but that is just my gut with really no factual basis!

I think you might be on to something. The co2 sensor used to be on the wall. Now its in the middle of the room and right in the canopy, Co2 levels might be way higher around the walls and 1500 at the center of the room. Im just guessing too but its definetly something to check out. Just have to think of how to check it at the walls. Might have to buy a portible sensor.
This is just what I was looking for: A few ideas of things to try. I appreciate you spending some time on this with me Event Horizon ! Thanks

 

[Tbone]

what was your comparable gpw between having it and not? Seeing that it effected stretch and canopy? Prob not much since you got de ballast.

I lost a wopping 4 or 5 units from one grow to the next. Until the enviro controllers, I atributed the stretch to the co2 . if we are right about too much co2, after 1500 more isnt better .

 

[EventHorizan]

I lost a wopping 4 or 5 units from one grow to the next. Until the enviro controllers, I atributed the stretch to the co2 . if we are right about too much co2, after 1500 more isnt better .

No from what i understand too much will harm them. Im thinking your co2 is reading is not an acurate measurement of what the room really is. How is your air circulation IN the room? And do some plants is certain parts of the room have itr worse? Towards the middle? Right under lights? Back by wall? We need as many clues as we can figure out.

 

[DemonTrich]

Plants can only absorb so much co2 and their able to. You can dump 3000ppm, doesn't mean the plant can use it all.

Possibly radiant heat, hot spots from hoods. What's your temps like? Ambient and leaf temps?

My sensor is about is hanging a little over canopy height between me 3rd and 4th hood. I run 1000ppm from flip to week 8. Then dropped to 500 last 2 weeks.

 

[EventHorizan]

I lost a wopping 4 or 5 units from one grow to the next. Until the enviro controllers, I atributed the stretch to the co2 . if we are right about too much co2, after 1500 more isnt better .

Before the enviro controller, which i assume is controlling your c02, what did you have to control c02 release and measurement? And do you see yourself using more c02 now than you did before the controller... Im so interested in figuring out what it is. I read another thread somewhere in the last 6 months with pretty much the same problem. Op must of gave up on the thread, and no conclusion was ever shared.... Unfortunately...

 

[DemonTrich]

In the other thread, the OP was using a burner for co2 and was not having the proper flame from the burner causing issues.

 

[Tbone]

No from what i understand too much will harm them. Im thinking your co2 is reading is not an acurate measurement of what the room really is. How is your air circulation IN the room? And do some plants is certain parts of the room have itr worse? Towards the middle? Right under lights? Back by wall? We need as many clues as we can figure out.

During the first grow , I had 5 oscilating fans running on low in the room and I had them all oscilating. On the grow in the second pic, I made the fans stationary so the air would be pushed circular around the room . Between the Excel Air air conditioners fabric duct and the fans I would say there is a lot of air movement. Maybe a little too much. I even have a duct picking up air from the ground and throwing into the inlet of the ac to help grab co2 on the floor and dump it on top of the plants. So I think there is good air movement. The problem seems to be on all fan leaves but worse on the big fan leaves.
The problem is the same pretty much on every plant in the room. If I dig into the middle of the plant were leaves are not recieving light, well, the leaves look better.
I think Im going to have to flip for a portible co2 probe to see were Im really at.