customizing a feeding program

[toquer]

so i've got a strain that we get great taste out of but can't seem to get the yield we want off the plant. so i've got a small set going in next week and i'd like to mess around with the feeding program. see how much is too much, how late is too late, how soon is too soon. wondering what other people do to determine how to best feed a strain that was newly acquired or needs some tweaking.

we harvest the strain early currently as we've always had a nicer taste and stronger upper effect when doing this. At most we take her 51 day but it seems that we have a greater skunk pheno then as opposed to the citrus that we desire.

i'm going to try changing the number of days in a week to start out with, so some of them will be on a 6 day week instead of a 7 day week. then i'll be feeding the next set of nutrients sooner than i normally would and cutting the N sooner than i normally would as well.

some of them i'm actually going to take 9 weeks like we do most of the other strains.

some of them will be given week 1 of flower while still in veg this week so they get the PK boost sooner than they normally would.

what do others think of this idea? how do you determine when to best feed the plant. hell it's 2 months before the final results are seen. we rarely run a deficiency on this plant. on it's current run there's an excess of N and we just started week 5 today but the flowers are greater in size and closer together as well despite some eagle claws.

i'd really like to keep this strain as the shops call for it all the time. i could grow just this one and i would never have enough to supply the stores. perhaps getting some new seeds from DNA? when i grow her outdoors it's the strongest we've ever tested, 23% thc, just a wonderful daytime high that keeps you active and energetic.

anyways some input would be nice...

thanks!!

 

[mastacheeser]

I'd give a strain at least 3 grows before you really get to know her. Unless your really doing something wrong, genetics play a bigger part in yeild than nutrients

And I fucking hate tomato cages

 

[Coir]

What medium are you growing in? What nutrient are you using? Have you considered sending in tissue samples at different stages to see exactly what the plant is lacking in or has too much of?

 

[toquer]

mastacheeser, I have been growing this strain since 2009. Outdoor has always performed better for her. I've got notes from years ago I'm gonna review those, thanks for helping me remember that!!

Coir, I grow in VermiFire soil currently using Humboldt Nutrients either the Oneness program or the Matter A/B program. I am currently switching to Aptus. I also run a perpetual compost tea with Progress Earths components and Vortex Brewer. The next set of them using Aptus look better already. I run a 16 light perpetual flower room so I've got things in all stages of life. I have thought about going down the road of tissue analysis its my next step after the nutrient transition. The guys at Aptus suggested not starting their nutes from flower so I've been running the last of my Humboldt on the ones before I made the change in veg. It's a long process when the plants live for 4 months from start to finish.

in the photos above the first ones, in early veg are using Aptus. The next two are still on Humboldt Nutrients. The ones in tomatoes cages, not in flower yet are going into flower this weekend.

 

[mastacheeser]

Can I ask where your temps are at?
Your ladies are really standing at attention in those pics

 

[toquer]

Flower ranges between 68 and 74 F And between 50 and 60% Rh.
Veg is another story. No AC in there yet. But mid to high 70's and not humid enough low 40's. Swamp cooler is coming.

 

[Seamaiden]

Have you tried playing around with just calcium adjustments?

 

[toquer]

past 24 hours 68 - 75F 45% - 66% rh

Seamaiden, have not tried that yet. have honestly not tried many adjustments with this one. we have been using a feeding program we created years ago slightly modified over time based on nutrient availability. we are switching over to using a regimented system so hopefully the results will go the direction we desire. what would you do with the Ca adjustments specifically?

 

[Seamaiden]

I would try to get a Ca:Mg ratio in the range of 6:1, see how the plant in question responds. I discovered during a coir run of The White that she's not a "calmag" whore, she needs calcium, LOTS of calcium.

I don't do well with formulaic feeding, so my own suggestion should be taken with a grain of something not too salty. However, the nice thing with the liquid Ca supplements I've used is that they can be given via foliar applications if so desired. Calcium-25 must be used as a foliar application.

 

[OrganicGanja]

Trial and error is the only way to find out if the strain you working is a heavy feeder or a light weight. I often find the heavy producing hybrid strains dont always have the best flavors IMHO.

 

[Tnelz]

I would try to get a Ca:Mg ratio in the range of 6:1, see how the plant in question responds. I discovered during a coir run of The White that she's not a "calmag" whore, she needs calcium, LOTS of calcium.

I don't do well with formulaic feeding, so my own suggestion should be taken with a grain of something not too salty. However, the nice thing with the liquid Ca supplements I've used is that they can be given via foliar applications if so desired. Calcium-25 must be used as a foliar application.

If u end up going this route give nectar for the gods liquid calcium a try. Also have u ever considered using Coco? Seem to get a larger room mass in Coco than soil. Larger roots larger buds! Lol. Good thread bro.

 

[toquer]

Foliarly application is done regularly in veg but not as often in flower. In veg i spray every other day. Since i've got a Humboldt Nutrients left i use their SeaCal which uses Calcium Gluconate as the Ca source. I don't think we've run this plant specifically with Humboldts lineup as it's always been some customized feeding program made up by my grow partner. He uses the CaMg supplement called Equilibrium from Humboldt, It's CaCO3 and a much higher % too. In the vortex brewer there is Greensand, i know it takes forever to break down, but it is micronized so that helps quite a bit. Also, in the soil we use VermiFire it is balanced with Greensand as well. So...i'd probably say it'd be easiest to measure the results of using the liquid form and the most easily available form as well, right? is CaCo3 or C12H22CaO14 easier for the plant to consume?

 

[toquer]

Tnelz, have though about going Coco but it's not cost effective for me nor is it feasible in this location without rebuilding it, and i'm not about to undo a $20K a month operation to change mediums. Plus i prefer the flavor of soil and the soil is a product we sell after it has been used to recoup our investment. certain things when they go into it, don't come out as easily and then i've just wasted a ton of money and not done much for the earth. it's bad enough i have to grow indoors.

 

[burn4me]

If u end up going this route give nectar for the gods liquid calcium a try. Also have u ever considered using Coco? Seem to get a larger room mass in Coco than soil. Larger roots larger buds! Lol. Good thread bro.

im no biologist but from the massive research ive done on cal/mag, seems most have a ratio out of wack for some. Mixing your own custom blend would work better, right? And nectar of the gods is a calcium phosphate where as most companies cal/mag uses a calcium nitrate. Nitrates from what ive read is harder for some plants to break down. I think anyway. Someone correct me if im wrong. Because unless im wrong i too plan to purchase calcium phosphate instead of nitrate in next go round

 

[toquer]

burn4me

i have zero desire in mixing my own custom blend of nutrients. I'm no scientist either but I know how to research what products I'm using and what companies produce them. Some companies have a monstrous marketing budget others have a great research budget. I rely on companies to do their part so that I can do my job and that is to provide 2 shops with top shelf smoke that is consistent every time and is always fresh and available. Don't mean to sound like an a$$.

I have to agree with the beginning of your post about most have a ratio out of whack!!

 

[Seamaiden]

Foliarly application is done regularly in veg but not as often in flower. In veg i spray every other day. Since i've got a Humboldt Nutrients left i use their SeaCal which uses Calcium Gluconate as the Ca source. I don't think we've run this plant specifically with Humboldts lineup as it's always been some customized feeding program made up by my grow partner. He uses the CaMg supplement called Equilibrium from Humboldt, It's CaCO3 and a much higher % too. In the vortex brewer there is Greensand, i know it takes forever to break down, but it is micronized so that helps quite a bit. Also, in the soil we use VermiFire it is balanced with Greensand as well. So...i'd probably say it'd be easiest to measure the results of using the liquid form and the most easily available form as well, right? is CaCo3 or C12H22CaO14 easier for the plant to consume?

If the CaCO3 is in a liquid form then it's basically already broken down for the plant. I hear ya on the greensand, but I still add it, it will come into play about 3yrs or so after application and there's nothing wrong with being proactive. Mostly I was getting at the actual ratios of Ca:Mg. Looking up the product, it looks pretty fucking good @12%Ca & 2%Mg, plus they've got a wee bit of Fe in the mix.

The thing is, the only way to really be able to tell whether or not that's the best ratio for this one particular strain is to be able to do comparisons where that ratio of Ca:Mg is adjusted upward (higher Ca:Mg ratio).

The micronized greensand, do you get that from Sensational Solutions? I have a bunch of samples of various products from them, all are supposed to be able to be used in fertigation applications. Pretty kewl.

 

[toquer]

The greensand is in the Earth Syrup http://vortexbrewer.com/products/earth-syrup/ for the Vortex Brewer. It is comprised of 4 ingredients. Although i'd like to find a way to add a 5th. I think the Earth Compound (steer manure) doesn't have enough diverse life for our specific plant and I think Cap's products would fit in better, but getting the talc filtered out is the current issue. Need to determine the micron size for that and then we can scoop it into there as well.

so then calcium carbonate is better or easier to absorb for the plant than calcium gluconate?

 

[Pisces]

I too agree that yield has EVERYTHING to do with genetics!

So, on that note, if you decide you want to keep this plant, then my recommendation(s) would be to stop topping so many times, stop using boosters, tighten up your pruning tech, and switch to a medium that will give you a bigger root mass in smaller pots.

Once I did all these things, my yields have Exploded!!!

 

[Seamaiden]

The greensand is in the Earth Syrup http://vortexbrewer.com/products/earth-syrup/ for the Vortex Brewer. It is comprised of 4 ingredients. Although i'd like to find a way to add a 5th. I think the Earth Compound (steer manure) doesn't have enough diverse life for our specific plant and I think Cap's products would fit in better, but getting the talc filtered out is the current issue. Need to determine the micron size for that and then we can scoop it into there as well.

so then calcium carbonate is better or easier to absorb for the plant than calcium gluconate?

I don't know if it's better or easier, let alone more bio-available. Bioavailability is what I'm after, not solubility.

Mix up the OGBiowar, let it settle for a few minutes, pour off the water and leave the talc behind. I don't know if you can or should do this *prior* to brewing, it's what I do for the brew because when I make teas I no longer use bags for the most part.

 

[toquer]

I don't know if it's better or easier, let alone more bio-available. Bioavailability is what I'm after, not solubility.

agree entirely. i've sent the question off to Humboldt nutrients to determine that answer.

Mix up the OGBiowar, let it settle for a few minutes, pour off the water and leave the talc behind. I don't know if you can or should do this *prior* to brewing, it's what I do for the brew because when I make teas I no longer use bags for the most part.

i've got a 30 gallon perpetual brewer. we add a calculated amount of each ingredient dependant upon the amount of compost tea used and water added back. 2 of the ingredients are micronized so they remain in suspension and the other 2 are liquid. The talc settles to the bottom that's for sure. even in the vortex brewer. but it also coats the tubes with the talc as well. so not to say that i can't do this, but i'm unwilling to do this.

i'll figure it out soon. just need to devote some time to it.