Dealing with soil troubles, too much to bake and it was just recharged!

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GDub51

GDub51

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My seeds sprouted quickly on the heat mat then most died in their soil cups. Looks like damping off. Have to start over. I read about NOT using my propagator for seedlings as the damp environment is too liable to introduce disease. OK, the 2 remaining seedlings are out by themselves getting 600 lumens of artificial light and a half hour a day out in the sun, a little more each day. Now to deal with the disease I can use the microwave to sterilize enough soil for new seedlings, but what about all the 12-gallon tall pots?? No disease has shown up in my soil before and I re-charge it every year with an ever-increasing amount of expensive additives. Now having just spent the money and work to recharge all that soil what do I do to ensure it is not also infected with bad bacteria? I've read that hydrogen peroxide washing will sterilize the soil somewhat but then it will kill all the good bacteria and mycorrhizae that are in it. After a few days in the sun with the H202 mix and covered with plastic wrap, I figure then drying out the soil some before re-introducing mycorrhizae. Anyone else with a similar problem?
 
GDub51

GDub51

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My seeds sprouted quickly on the heat mat then most died in their soil cups. Looks like damping off. Have to start over. I read about NOT using my propagator for seedlings as the damp environment is too liable to introduce disease. OK, the 2 remaining seedlings are out by themselves getting 600 lumens of artificial light and a half hour a day out in the sun, a little more each day. Now to deal with the disease I can use the microwave to sterilize enough soil for new seedlings, but what about all the 12-gallon tall pots?? No disease has shown up in my soil before and I re-charge it every year with an ever-increasing amount of expensive additives. Now having just spent the money and work to recharge all that soil what do I do to ensure it is not also infected with bad bacteria? I've read that hydrogen peroxide washing will sterilize the soil somewhat but then it will kill all the good bacteria and mycorrhizae that are in it. After a few days in the sun with the H202 mix and covered with plastic wrap, I figure then drying out the soil some before re-introducing mycorrhizae. Anyone else with a similar problem?
I've re-entered this thread with further explanation after my second try failed and no replies. Now with fresh "seedling soil" I'll try once more but I wish I knew what is killing off the seedlings as soon as they are placed in soil.
 
RealizedReal000

RealizedReal000

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You should use the h2o2 before planting seeds not after. Also you can re introduce the good bacteria with a little worm castings.
 
GDub51

GDub51

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You should use the h2o2 before planting seeds not after. Also you can re introduce the good bacteria with a little worm castings.
It was before planting seeds of course. In fact a month before so soil could dry out. It never did.
 
GDub51

GDub51

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I've re-entered this thread with further explanation after my second try failed and no replies. Now with fresh "seedling soil" I'll try once more but I wish I knew what is killing off the seedlings as soon as they are placed in soil.
I've replaced the seedling soil completely and spread out all the rest to sanitize in the sun now for two weeks turning it several times a day. Combining this with new amounts of perlite, vermiculite and pumice and starting completely over TURNED UP WITH THE SAME SITUATION!! Plants dying after transplant into soil that will not dry out. I have stirred the soil around the root ball to aerate it to no effect. I've only added a cup or two at transplant to moisten the surrounding soil, no more and it still measures WET!! Plants lower leaves yellow and drop while upper leaves are too dark green and limp. All the signs of overwatering while the plant goes un-watered. I'm down 53 seeds now for a half dozen sprouts this year. Not a rookie, I feel cursed. Nothing improves the situation now on the third round of seeds, second round of soil and last round of patience. This game was very important to me. Growing one's own medicine is very self satisfying, but continuous failure without explanation has left a dent in the pocket book and a bruise on the soul. I've lost interest now in something I can't seem to master. Best attempts in previous years still required enhancement with it's own keif to create a useable product. I'm spent.... good luck to all of you. GDub51 is out.
 
mysticepipedon

mysticepipedon

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Do you know any other growers nearby, who can show you what to do and not do?
 
ragz

ragz

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I would start propagating in different mediums or try new soil.

I've had a similar problem after transplanting to soil from the soak/paper towel method.

It could be a combination of variables such as high EC in the soil with PH/Temp/VPD.

I've read that you should be gradually hardening your seedlings from propagator to direct air/light as well. A matter of fact, most transitional factors should change gradually in an ideal world. (light, temp, hum, sunrise/sunset, nutes, etc) Seems to be a trend with canna.

Just use your failure to drive yourself to answer some questions about what's going on and don't be afraid to make some changes, but do them gradually.

My .02, YMMV.
 
GDub51

GDub51

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You should use the h2o2 before planting seeds not after. Also you can re introduce the good bacteria with a little worm castings.
It (h202 cleansing wash thru) was done 5 weeks B4 planting and recharge. The soil was still wet then proving it was not draining properly. I"ve now done the 3rd batch of soil (excuse contractions, difficult to type...broken shoulder not had surgery yet) for the last few plants (the third soil batch this year) and it is draining properly. I realized I just had too much ground-up dead rhizomes in the mix. I "feed the soil" and use extra mycorrhizae creating a lot of their fine threads. I had removed the roots from the old soil but the rhizomes are too small and got ground up while mixing the soil. It made it too fine and too water retentive. In the future, I will need to add more fresh soil at re-charge as well as a lot more perlite, vermiculite, and pumice for better drainage. The dead rhizomes take up more space than I realized, retaining too much water. A lesson every "feed the soil" group should take note of. Within two years of growth in pots with supplemental mycorrhizae, the leftover rhizome mass will make the soil too dense and fine. And airflow enhancing ingredients like mentioned above will need to be added even more (to 40% adds to 60% soil) for proper drainage. At this mix, the last four in it look great and are vegging trying to catch up now so late for a photoperiod start. Good thing the fall is long and hot here. I'll need more time this season due to the early soil problems. Growing Gorilla Bomb (Bombseeds), Godfather OG (Weedseedexpress), and OG Kush (Grow Your Own seeds) A lesson for all the "feed the soil not the plant" group to know.....IF you re-use soil that's been enhanced with mycorrhizae, you'll need to add even more perlite, etc to enhance airflow and drainage in what is now a fine dense soil.
 
GDub51

GDub51

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Why don't you just buy new soil??
I did if you read it all. It was three mixes until the problem was discovered.... too many rhizomes mass leftover
You should use the h2o2 before planting seeds not after. Also you can re introduce the good bacteria with a little worm castings.
It was before planting of course. I don't know how folks thought that... read the long answer about the rhizome mass making the soil too water retentive.
 
GDub51

GDub51

133
43
I would start propagating in different mediums or try new soil.

I've had a similar problem after transplanting to soil from the soak/paper towel method.

It could be a combination of variables such as high EC in the soil with PH/Temp/VPD.

I've read that you should be gradually hardening your seedlings from propagator to direct air/light as well. A matter of fact, most transitional factors should change gradually in an ideal world. (light, temp, hum, sunrise/sunset, nutes, etc) Seems to be a trend with canna.

Just use your failure to drive yourself to answer some questions about what's going on and don't be afraid to make some changes, but do them gradually.

My .02, YMMV.
I'm experienced, I know all about hardening off and had already checked the EC/PH, etc. It was the leftover rhizome
Do you know any other growers nearby, who can show you what to do and not do?
Of course I do. I have 7 years experience so I don't consider myself a rookie. The problems were not rookie problems. It came down to realizing the leftover rhyzomes were making the soil too dense and retentive. The third batch of soil mix got 40% perlite, vermiculite and pumice for drainage along with a fresh batch of new soil fixed the problem. If you grow the "feed the soil" way you need to add even more such drainage increasing ingredients to your re-charge to make up for the fine threads of rhyzomes left over.
That mass had to be dealt with. See the longer answer to "Realized".
 
GDub51

GDub51

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Why don't you just buy new soil??
For my fourth attempt I used all new soil. Now too late for photo periods I planted Bruce Banner Fast. Brand new Ocean Forest 30%, perlite and pumice 30%, Fresh Compost 20%, and to finally insure friability and drainage "Succulent and Cactus Soil" 20%. Mixed and watered just till run off and set in the sun for a week. Added a Bruce Banner Auto on 7\8 that exploded and thru a 3cm tail in 36 hours, set 1/4" down into the new soil mix, popped out in 24hrs. received a few tablespoons of PH'd water three times a day first few days, then twice a day with a little more water in a wider circle around the seedling now in it's three gallon pot. AND BAMB! cupped up first set of leaves showed some kind of stress but what?? Book says too much light, I'm outdoors! And everything I read about autos says give them as much light as you can from the get go. It has been moderate here 60's to low 80's so. I know the smallest set back with an auto means failure so this one's no doubt headed for the same grave the other now 54!! seeds germinated. This brand new soil is also not drying. I have a half dozen stunted worthless plants that are drowning in soil that refuses to breath or dry out. I've used the same soil mix for five previous seasons with little trouble, now I can't seem to make a mix of soil that will breath at all. I have stated elsewhere that I thought the raking of the old soil in the sun (to kill any bad pathogens after the first failures) broke the left over hyphae from mychorhizae supplementation into a dust that is super water retentive creating this choking soil I've created. But now on my fourth try with ALL NEW SOIL the same thing is happening. Soil will not dry out! I've posted about this under "seeds germ in paper then fizzle in soil" and :left over rhizomes make soil too dense". Yet I'm still scratching my head with no helpful answers. I'm experienced with 7 successful grows, study hard (I'm retired) work hard at it (I have time for it every day) and yet everything that worked before no longer does! I know it's been cool for SoCal but not THAT cool. These shots were weeks ago. Plants have stalled and exhibited signs of over watering while only getting a cup or less on plants that at this time last season were taking 2 GALLONS each every third day. (see guage in pic.) Has anyone got a handle on this?? Look OK to you?? Well the larger ones were started 3/21 the smaller ones are the third attempt started 4/30. Today the "large" ones are about 2' tall while the forth batch is still only a foot tall. Note all the perlite and don't let the good color fool you, their now rife with yellowing dropping leaves and every sign of over watering while I wait for the soil to dry a little.
 
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