Deep Cleaning Do's And Dont's

[GrowGod]

Good suggestion. I did save a baggie of infested leaves for that purpose but I've been unable to locate live RM's on them now. Maybe the treatments, and the delayed action of the Azamax, I have given have killed more that I originally thought.

I do see what I think are eggs on the saved leaves, still moist in the baggie, but I can't tell if they are still viable. I will keep looking though and let you know what I learn.

Does anyone know how to tell if an egg is still alive? I can't seem to find this inf. after many hours of searching.

I sure wish someone who has already done this experiment would chime in because I don't feel I can begin the big cleanup plan without knowing it will work.

Peace.

I'm pretty sure it does kill them, but if your not dunking every plant everyday there's no way you will make contact with every mite.

 

[Allan419]

I'm pretty sure it does kill them, but if your not dunking every plant everyday there's no way you will make contact with every mite.

I would agree. They are so small and hide so well it is a challenge to say the least.

I've read the russets and broads will also spend time in the soil. Many seem to believe that a soil drench with Azamax will get the BORG there. There also seems to be some agreement that neem products do have some systemic activity when applied into the root zone. Others say a 115F soil soak will do it.

You mention dunking. What would be your choice of dunk?

I plan on doing a slow 130F flush of the soil with 3x the pot soil volume to get them there without killing all the beneficials.

I don't want to get carried away and way overdo what is necessary but at this point, given their size and with wind being a primary method of movement, it feels like they are all over the house just waiting for some vegitation to jump on and get to breeding and spreading death and destruction.

Peace

 

[growbread]

Azamax is useless against russets broads and cyclamen mites.. did you ever get a positive ID with the scope? I had russets and my plants didn't look like that. As far as cleaning bleach everything you can then physan 20. I got a steam cleaner for the rest of the house. Dust any carpets around with diatomaceous earth.

 

[Seamaiden]

I understand. Thanks!

You seem to be pretty active on the boards here. Do you happen to know if isopropyl will kill russet mites and their eggs? I can't seem to get a straight answer after days of looking and asking.

Peace and Good Health.

I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if using successive treatments would have a negative effect on them. I do use the iso for spider mites, but they're a bit meatier. :)

Have you used Google Scholar at all? I'm running across quite a few papers, obviously none are intended for cannabis cultivation but we've got to cross over when and where we can.

 

[Seamaiden]

I plan on doing a slow 130F flush of the soil with 3x the pot soil volume to get them there without killing all the beneficials.

That will kill the beneficials. You'll have to reinoculate.

 

[Allan419]

I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if using successive treatments would have a negative effect on them. I do use the iso for spider mites, but they're a bit meatier. :)

Have you used Google Scholar at all? I'm running across quite a few papers, obviously none are intended for cannabis cultivation but we've got to cross over when and where we can.

I have not used Google Scholar. Did not know there was such a thing. I will figure out how to use it and do that. The more inf. the better.

Thanks. Peace.

 

[Allan419]

That will kill the beneficials. You'll have to reinoculate.

It's interesting you say that. I was under the impression, from reading the forums and work in food service, that it takes 180F to kill bacteria.

There are apparently a lot of people doing hot water, 125F, soaks of the soil for bug control and very few mention needing to reinoculate.

I am not saying you are wrong by any means, it's just a different take on what I thought.

Thanks for the help and peace.

 

[Seamaiden]

I have not used Google Scholar. Did not know there was such a thing. I will figure out how to use it and do that. The more inf. the better.
scholar.google.com and it can also be used to find legal decisions, just be sure to check the radio button.
Thanks. Peace.

It's interesting you say that. I was under the impression, from reading the forums and work in food service, that it takes 180F to kill bacteria.

Foodborne illness-causing bacteria are different than what we're working with in soils. Also, the "beneficials" we're working with in soil aren't limited to bacteria. They include fungi, protozoa, amoeba, nematodes, etc.

 

[40BRIX]

My brother once gave me mites...ruined a whole room of AK47 :mad:...anyway, when I use soil I bake it in the oven ~200 for 45-1 hr before putting in the pots, sterile soil. Then I add back some benes I got from the nursery or ebay, forget where now. To clean the room I did the following and it cleared up my problem permanently.

no plants in the room, heat the room to 90-100 degrees for a day, activate the little bs. then I used a fogger, a regular old high poison insect fogger from HD. next, keep the room heated for 3 days, run a fogger again. Next, clean every surface I can with soap, lysol, whatever you like to use to get rid of the poison residue. Nothing living in that room after that!!

Another thing I've done, usually early in the grow, is to dust the ground and entire plant with diatomaceous earth, cuts up the crawlers. I stop dusting the plants a couple of weeks before flower starts. Also used 90% iso alcohol as a spray all over the plants at anytime in the grow but it tends to really dry out the leaf surfaces so be careful with that.

 

[Allan419]

Foodborne illness-causing bacteria are different than what we're working with in soils. Also, the "beneficials" we're working with in soil aren't limited to bacteria. They include fungi, protozoa, amoeba, nematodes, etc.

Good answer! Thanks! Peace.

 

[Allan419]

My brother once gave me mites...ruined a whole room of AK47 :mad:...anyway, when I use soil I bake it in the oven ~200 for 45-1 hr before putting in the pots, sterile soil. Then I add back some benes I got from the nursery or ebay, forget where now. To clean the room I did the following and it cleared up my problem permanently.

no plants in the room, heat the room to 90-100 degrees for a day, activate the little bs. then I used a fogger, a regular old high poison insect fogger from HD. next, keep the room heated for 3 days, run a fogger again. Next, clean every surface I can with soap, lysol, whatever you like to use to get rid of the poison residue. Nothing living in that room after that!!

Another thing I've done, usually early in the grow, is to dust the ground and entire plant with diatomaceous earth, cuts up the crawlers. I stop dusting the plants a couple of weeks before flower starts. Also used 90% iso alcohol as a spray all over the plants at anytime in the grow but it tends to really dry out the leaf surfaces so be careful with that.

That sounds pretty effective. Do you dilute the iso at all? Peace.

 

[40BRIX]

no, I put a spray cap right on the alcohol bottle

 

[Allan419]

That will kill the beneficials. You'll have to reinoculate.

I found the quote below on a University AG site. I also managed to find a lot of agreement on Google Scholar (thanks for that lead to academia) That 130F-140F wet heat treatments will kill off insects, eggs, and many unwanted pathogens but will leave most of the the beneficial microorganisms intact.
I learn something new every day. If I don't, I am not paying attention.

"In the horticulture industry, soil technicians prefer using aerated steam at a temperature of 140 degree Fahrenheit for 30 minutes to treat propagation soil. Because higher temperatures (180 degrees Fahrenheit) kill all microorganisms, diseases may spread very rapidly with the absence of their natural enemies. On the other hand, when soil is treated with aerated steam at 140 degrees Fahrenheit, most of the beneficial microorganisms survive. Their presence stops or slows the growth of plant diseases."

So, it would appear my slow flush (takes about an hour and a half) of 3x the pot volume with 135F should kill the nasties and preserve many of the beneficials. Cool. Very cool.

It is pasteurization vs. sterilization.

Peace and Good Health!

 

[Allan419]

no, I put a spray cap right on the alcohol bottle

Interesting. I will use a 30% bleach solution followed by a 75% ISO wash-off on the non plant contact surfaces to kill russets.

I did a little experiment on an egg infested leaf. I sprayed it with non-diluted 91% ISO and the eggs turned from mostly clear to a bright white. The leaf had been cut from the plant so I don't know if it would survive the ISO wash (doubt it) but after keeping the leaf warm and moist in a baggie so it didn't dry up none of the eggs have hatched that I can see.
Peace.

 

[Seamaiden]

They'll survive it, but depending on light exposure and how saturated into the cuticle the iso gets, it may scorch. I burned the shit out of some doing full strength 91% iso in full sun, midday. Only did that once!

So, it would appear my slow flush (takes about an hour and a half) of 3x the pot volume with 135F should kill the nasties and preserve many of the beneficials. Cool. Very cool.

Thank you for that piece of information, it was something I didn't know. :D

 

[shemshemet]

No 'cide' is labeled for use with cannabis. That doesn't mean it necessarily is a bad thing, it just means that, legally speaking, you've gone outside the purview so to speak.

Sea,

generally speaking I completely agree with you. Legal / Illegal =/= Good / Bad

But I believe that through internet forums, speaking to strangers, a recommendation for a pesticide against the labelled use should be unacceptable. We (us, the societies made on cannabis growing forums) should be condemning the use of pesticides. *period*.

I do not believe we should be circumventing pesticide laws, nor praising unfounded use of these dangerous tools.

I do not see the pesticide issue as black and white. What I do see as black and white though, again, is referring others to the use of pesticides against a label. It may be fine, but you don't know who is reading the information, and how they are interpreting it.

If you understand the products, the interactions, and the possible repercussions, go ahead and spray your plants and walls. Please just don't think you can teach others how to be as 'safe' as you.

 

[hermit186]

Not getting into the middle of this for nothing for me a steam cleaner was an option and it killed them.
In my case it took three dances. The little buggers were coming thru the drain in floor and the cracks.
Had a exterminator come out and inject the ground around my green building.

I have agent orange and chemistry is for the fools that use it hell drink it it's all safe the government is protecting us.

So ya know he injected hot salt water and it killed everything. I am not sorry now even rats don't go under it anymore. I am sure I was not good for the environment but war is hell.

 

[Seamaiden]

But I believe that through internet forums, speaking to strangers, a recommendation for a pesticide against the labelled use should be unacceptable. We (us, the societies made on cannabis growing forums) should be condemning the use of pesticides. *period*.

I do not believe we should be circumventing pesticide laws, nor praising unfounded use of these dangerous tools.

If that's the case, then there is truly not a thing that can legally be used on or for cannabis. Wanna use JMS Stylets oil? Can't, legally speaking. Want to use SM-90? Again, you can't. Want to use SNS something? Nope, it's a no-go.

This is the legal quandary in which we find ourselves.

Beyond that, we have as much responsibility to use 'cides' as appropriately as we can as anyone who uses Sevin dust, etc on their tomato garden. In my opinion on the subject, as long as we're responsible about our use, we should be ok. And again in my opinion, we can't expect the majority of cannabis cultivators to be more responsible than the majority of homeowners. Exactly who *are* all these people buying Round-Up by the pallet, anyway? It ain't farmers.