Deficiency or Burn WTF

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flampkin

flampkin

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So about the 1st or second week of flower my problem begain. I had fertilized with shultz liquid 10-15-10 with micro nutes during veg throught the 1st week of flower and the plants were healthy but once a week or so after fliping them I got burnt leaf tips, purple stems and yellowing of the lower fan leaves. I went light on the feed the whole grow and the mystery girl has had yellowing fan leaves since the end of veg so I thought it was a deficiency.. So I swithched to Dyna-Gro Bloom 3-12-6 and I went a little lower than the suggested lowest rate there was just in case it was a burn but no help with either problem. They were still yellowing and producing burnt tips. I than flushed the super lemon and watered mystery girl still no effect. The plant is still growing and pushin out lots of new white hairs but this pheno of slh is prone to going hermie in the last few weeks if stressed. I am on day 37 and I dont know if I should water, flush or fertilize any help would be appreciated. Another note would be that the mystery girl has had yellowing fan leaves since the end of veg.
Thanks

Here are a few pictures
1-4 are a mystery plantday 36
The rest are Super Lemon Haze the last pic is of leaf coming off a bud near the top and there are some purple hues in it he camera phone doesnt sucks
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stickyfing3rs

stickyfing3rs

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Looks to me like they need to be re potted, idk if you use teas or not but i bet if you transplanted them and hit them with some tea they would perk up fast.
 
squiggly

squiggly

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Agree. They look rootbound to me.

The result is that you've got a little of both going on (deficiency and overnute).

How long did you veg these for?


If you can't fully repot you can try this:

1. Remove the root ball from the pot.

2. Cut 1" off of the sides and from the bottom of the plant.

3. Repot with 1" of new soil all around in the original pot.


This is known as root pruning and it WILL cause your plants to stall in flower--but that might be preferable to what you've got going on here. Certainly see if there's an easier fix before going that route.


The next thing I'm wondering is what is your soil pH? What pH are you watering in at? What is your medium?

Sometimes your lower leaves will go yellow like that due to lack of light--especially in a bushy girl like that bitch, so it's not always a terrible sign. However, the yellow does seem to be working its way up your plant which suggests a deficiency.

Do you have an IR thermometer to measure your leaf temp with? It could be that you are literally burning your plants up top instead of nute burning them.
 
flampkin

flampkin

16
3
I did actually re-pot the mystery plant and signs of deficiency have slowed down but the burn is still occuring. The SLH has been in the same pot too long for sure its been in the same pot since it sprouted a little over 3 months ago. I have some pots here but I'm going to grab some soil tomorow see how a trasplant will help. My pH is 6 and the runoff I've tested is always the same as the H20 and I'm growing in a mixture of black earth and perilite at 2:1 with a little vermiculite in there too.
 
squiggly

squiggly

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I did actually re-pot the mystery plant and signs of deficiency have slowed down but the burn is still occuring. The SLH has been in the same pot too long for sure its been in the same pot since it sprouted a little over 3 months ago. I have some pots here but I'm going to grab some soil tomorow see how a trasplant will help. My pH is 6 and the runoff I've tested is always the same as the H20 and I'm growing in a mixture of black earth and perilite at 2:1 with a little vermiculite in there too.

I mean obviously the yellowing looks like classic nitrogen def.

You might consider bringing the pH down a bit (just a smidge) to maybe 5.8.

That means water in at maybe 5.7-5.6 till the runnoff is at 5.8.
 
flampkin

flampkin

16
3
Im going to trasplant and I dont think I will too agressive as far as root pruning is conserned. The dyna-grow recommends using it everytime you water. So the question is should I fertilize as I normally would, go light with the fert or just water? Thanks again Squiggly big help.
 
squiggly

squiggly

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Im going to trasplant and I dont think I will too agressive as far as root pruning is conserned. The dyna-grow recommends using it everytime you water. So the question is should I fertilize as I normally would, go light with the fert or just water? Thanks again Squiggly big help.

If you're going to up-pot with at least an additional inch all the way around--then do not prune at all. This will only stall your plants, could cause problems, and isn't necessary.

However if you do notice that your root mass is severely root bound when you pull it out--then you should prune but VERY LIGHTLY (1/8"-1/4" all the way around--just enough to prune off dead root tips).

Only prune 1" around if you are putting the pot back into the same size pot as it came out of.


I recommend that you do not feed unless you are using a soil-less mix like Sunshine mix or something. If you'll be adding soil with nutrient content, just water in with a tea to transplant until you know how your plants will react.

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times, and I'll say it a thousand more:

Let the plants tell you what they need, not the bottle. If you're not getting a clear indication from the plants--just add water or tea until they give you one. Believe me--they will.

You can't un-nute your medium, but you can always add nutes.

Imagine the following metaphorical scenario:
You are standing in front of an iron door and cannot see outside. You don't know what season it is or where you are. IE you don't know what weather to expect.

Once you open the door you can't come back inside or bring more clothes. What do you do?

Do you:

1. Assume it is summer and go outside half naked?

Or do you:

2. Assume it is winter and go outside all bundled up, knowing that if it is summer you can take all of the clothes off?


The smart man goes with #2, and that is analogous to waiting to add nutes until you know you should.
 
xX Kid Twist Xx

xX Kid Twist Xx

Premium Member
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the buds are small looking like a lack of light what are you flowering under? as well as to much nitrogen that is a sativa dom girl i can see hooking at the top of the plant. you need to up the bloom nutes and lower your veg nutes. i see you say jacks and while that may work good for indy dominate strains this one can do with out the added N. you need to find a nutrient thats high in P-K for flowering. to much N in flowering will cause smaller tight buds up top.
 
flampkin

flampkin

16
3
I have a 400W MH not ideal but produces quality not much quantity, espeacially with these sativas. I have been using Dyna-Gro Bloom 3-12-6 past 3 weeks and still getting burns after I flushed it last week.This pheno of super lemon haze is supersensitive in flower no matter what I do so I'm not surprised thats there is a burn but with a deficiency too its got me scratching my head. The leaves developing on the buds have had burnt tips after I flushed, after I only watered, after a half dose and the same effects with full dose. Going to play it safe and water for now. I will post a pic after I give it a couple days
 
squiggly

squiggly

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I have a 400W MH not ideal but produces quality not much quantity, espeacially with these sativas. I have been using Dyna-Gro Bloom 3-12-6 past 3 weeks and still getting burns after I flushed it last week.This pheno of super lemon haze is supersensitive in flower no matter what I do so I'm not surprised thats there is a burn but with a deficiency too its got me scratching my head. The leaves developing on the buds have had burnt tips after I flushed, after I only watered, after a half dose and the same effects with full dose. Going to play it safe and water for now. I will post a pic after I give it a couple days

If they burned during an extended flush, I'd be worried about a calcium deficiency potentially.

Maybe magnesium. I've never been great at telling the difference (as my solution is usually cal-mag).

Are you using RO water perchance?
 
Topofthecrop

Topofthecrop

1,079
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I probably should read all the other post before I repeat someone but right now I'm just gonna throw my first glance answer at it haha
I would water with a lower PH. I use amended soil and have found that when I feed at 5.3-5.6 I get better results with a steady soil PH. PH fluctuation is a big part too. I can tell your tips at the top are a little burned maybe raise lights.
Also a little of that is ok. It is in flower. just like autumn. I will pluck bottoms but usually it's an N def. try using an enzyme. That can really do wonders. Def use teas. Learn as much as you can with them and utilize. I give an N and a P boost one week before flip. I have cut back on a lot of early yellow because of that. Hope this helps and didn't already repeat to much. Good luck!
 
xX Kid Twist Xx

xX Kid Twist Xx

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flushing wont just up and fix the leaves. once the damage is done its there because you are in flower. the trick is to pay attention and make sure it dosent go any further.
 
symbiote420

symbiote420

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Potassium deficiency ......that's what it looks like to me! Tip from your pal sym, never flowering weak plants or plants showing signs of being deficient ....if you are aware of what's causing the def. and are taking the appropriate steps to fix it then ignore the latter.

Another thing I've found, sativas need plenty of root space (...like squiggly said) and most don't like being force fed! Some good ol seaweed should set em straight! Before I forget what's your humidity like in there? Low humidity causes plants to transpire all messed up and causes the edges and tips to fry because the stomata are being taxed!
 
flampkin

flampkin

16
3
So I have transplanted both plants now but niether plant was root bound but did seem to have a positive effect on mystery girl the N defiecency has stoped but still geting burt tips on her. The super lemon haze has continually declines u can see from the first few pics how yellow the entire plant has turned with slight hues of purple and still putting out burt tips. I water last 2 feeds and toady I gave a falf dose to see what happens. I still dont wtf is up with this slh major deficiency but still burning. I feed with dyna grow 3-12-6 at 6pH. I have some canna 5-0-2 something close to that its for hydro use only. Would there be any good trying to foliar feed to green up things or mix it in with a feed or should I stay clear of it?

I'm using a camera phone but u get the idea
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symbiote420

symbiote420

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That is K bro ....all day! See how it's all purple on the stems and petioles? The upside down canoe leaves? The early fall coloring on the leaves?

To the plants
N = growth, P = roots/fruits, K = health, K controls the "vital organs" of the plant, it's responsible for transpiration (breathing) and moving other nutrients around in the plant ....overwaterng messes with K uptake big time, so does super high and super low humidity ...especially low humidity with hot dry enviro! A good foliar with some seaweed and a lil molasses as a wetting agent and a soil feed, that should get you on track with visible results in two to three days!

I've been there bro, too many times before .....it's K
Too much calcium and magnesium can blotch up K uptake too!
 
flampkin

flampkin

16
3
Right on thats sounds about right to me 30-40 % humidity 78F in the room but I could re-angle the fan keep the air movement down a bit. Seaweed eh? Any others sources of K that would you recommend. I got a couple weeks left and would like to to the plant justice the trichomes are ridiculous but with the MH and deficiency I got some wispy buds.
Thanks
 
symbiote420

symbiote420

2,199
263
I keep my air movement at the minimum during the winter and/or during hot dry conditions. Ever pay attention to the main ingredients in bloom boosters and flower hardeners ...it's some form of kelp or if chemical based there's some form of potassium in it! I'm an organics guy, if not seaweed I'd use something like Aurora's Extreme Serene or EJ Meta K, but there are tons of different products. Hope that helps!
 
montanamike1

montanamike1

85
18
Before anyone gives any more "advice", I'd like to agree with squiggly that you clearly were not paying attention to the needs of that plant, treating it like a machine that needs different fuel ratios rather than a living organism.

To whit;
Plants take time to assimilate nutrients, even those running full synthetic as yourself. It can take days, or even weeks for you to see the results of what you've given your plant.

I agree with squiggly; it is always preferable to gradually build up your nutrient load and "nurture" your plants, noting subtle changes in your plant's condition and recording the effects of your feedings and waterings.

While a young foal will buckle and break it's back under your weight, given time, training, and a gradually increasing nutrient load, your foal will become a bucking young stallion capable of carrying you for many miles.

Research for Flampkin

Greg Green's cannabis grow bible
http://www.amazon.com/The-Cannabis-Grow-Bible-Recreational/dp/1931160589/ref=pd_sim_b_7
 
flampkin

flampkin

16
3
Before anyone gives any more "advice", I'd like to agree with squiggly that you clearly were not paying attention to the needs of that plant, treating it like a machine that needs different fuel ratios rather than a living organism.

If you clearly read the post you would know that there was no deficiency or signs of a deficiency a week before I posted nothing till week 4 of flower. A machine really I have a degree in horticulture and turf management I caught the problem just as the first signs appeared. The SLH is a light feeder I know because its my 7th run with this pheno and always use a different feeding shedule for it. Much like a machine plants do need fuel and if the ratios are incorrect or not timed correctly you can see the results. Sorry but cocky ill-informed people piss me off.

Update
The mystery plant has not shown new signs of deficiency and is putting out tons of pistils. The SLH is not getting worse but is progressing slowly. I think it may be to late I'm in the 7th week and cant afford nutes till next week just about flush time lol. I will post some some new pics soon.
Thanks guys
 
montanamike1

montanamike1

85
18
If you clearly read the post you would know that there was no deficiency or signs of a deficiency a week before I posted nothing till week 4 of flower. A machine really I have a degree in horticulture and turf management I caught the problem just as the first signs appeared. The SLH is a light feeder I know because its my 7th run with this pheno and always use a different feeding shedule for it. Much like a machine plants do need fuel and if the ratios are incorrect or not timed correctly you can see the results. Sorry but cocky ill-informed people piss me off.

Update
The mystery plant has not shown new signs of deficiency and is putting out tons of pistils. The SLH is not getting worse but is progressing slowly. I think it may be to late I'm in the 7th week and cant afford nutes till next week just about flush time lol. I will post some some new pics soon.
Thanks guys

:stop: Slow your roll a little there Flampkin before you start calling other farmers cocky and ill-informed; we're on here to help you dude. If you don't want other people's opinions, don't ask for it. You clearly are not an expert or you would not be asking questions like "Deficiency or Burn WTF"; experts like Texas Kid, Seamaiden, Homebrew420, and literally a thousand other experienced growers will tell you the same thing.

Here's one reason why
leavedeficiencies.jpg

Do you need another reason? Ok, how about swinging between flushing and fertilizing is a major no-no. Flushing DOES NOT remove nutrients from your plant, adding CHELATING AGENTS like Humic and Fulvic Acids break down residual salt buildups into usable molecules, otherwise your "flush" is little more than heavy watering.

So, Mr. Turf Management Degree, I'm going to assume that you know about pH. You are aware that if your potential Hydrogen ratio is incorrect, no matter how much K you dump into your soil, things will only get worse. You claim earlier that your pH was 6- 6 exactly?; was this after a feeding or after a watering? What PPM is your base solution? Did you test the soil or the runoff water? How many PPM's are you running? How many PPM's are in your runoff water? Are you running on well water or city tap? Do you aerate the nutrient solution? After you flushed, did you repair your medium with microlife and recharge it with calcium and magnesium?

My Point here, Mr. New Farmer, is that you have not even given enough information for someone to acurately diagnose your problems even if you did put in enough time and effort to find out what is really happening.

I'm going to go ahead and not believe you when you say that those severe problems on your plant appeared overnight, and encourage you to use some more respect when talking to more experienced farmers on here trying to help you out or you may find yourself having to make a new avatar.
 
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