Deficiency vs excess vs nute lock

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M

malpractice

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Greetings
Long time lurker, first post.
Currently amidst my first grow where I'm paying attention to the grow.
Seed is a "Black Cream" Auto in week 6 from sprout
Everything was going great until recently, I noticed some pinking / redding of some stems followed by some of the fans turning pale green. Not affecting the whole plant but I want to get on top of things before the whole grow goes south.
The medium is Soil
Nutes are Dyna-gro (Grow / Bloom) according to the below schedule:
(the measurements are the fraction of the recommended dosing)

  • Week 0 Germination - Plain water;
  • Week 1 Seedling - Plain water;
  • Week 2 Vegetating - ⅛ veg. nutes;
  • Week 3 Vegetating - ¼ veg. nutes;
  • Week 4 Vegetating - ¼ to ½ veg. nutes;
  • Week 5 Pre-flowering - ¼ veg. nutes + ⅛ bloom;
  • Week 6 Flowering - ¼ bloom + ⅛ veg. nutes;
  • Week 7 Flowering - ¼ bloom nutes;
  • Week 8 Flowering - ½ bloom nutes;
  • Week 9 Flowering - ½ bloom nutes;
  • Week 10 Ripening - ⅛ bloom nutes;
  • Week 11 Flushing - Plain water.
At first I thought it was a deficiency then did a bevy of reading and discovered that it could be salt buildup ~ nutrient lockout.
The very tips of some of the leaves (again not all) have turned down so I also considered nitrogen tox.
There haven't been any significant environmental changes and the plant has been the same distance from my Gixxer LED 600w equivalent the entire grow
There are no obvious mites / infestation
Temp / Humidity has been unchanged

Yesterday I performed a flush as i found it noted that dyna-gro nutes require a few throughout the grow
I have not tested pH but will do so with runoff from next watering
I'm hoping someone out there might be able to scope out the pics and provide some insight.
Please let me know if there are any additional details I can provide.
 
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MIGrampaUSA

MIGrampaUSA

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Have you considered using a yucca based surfactant? Bush Doctor's Sledge Hammer is what Fox Farm recommends for flushing in their product line. It's their product so that should be no surprise ... It's very effective if used as directed in washing out excessive salt build up.

Flushing is a controversial subject. A dialed in grow rarely needs this. However if you're going to flush again in the future, consider a yucca based surfactant or even a few drops of dish soap during the flush and then follow up with a light nutrient feeding right afterwards.
 
M

malpractice

7
3
Have you considered using a yucca based surfactant? Bush Doctor's Sledge Hammer is what Fox Farm recommends for flushing in their product line. It's their product so that should be no surprise ... It's very effective if used as directed in washing out excessive salt build up.

Flushing is a controversial subject. A dialed in grow rarely needs this. However if you're going to flush again in the future, consider a yucca based surfactant or even a few drops of dish soap during the flush and then follow up with a light nutrient feeding right afterwards.
Interesting. Ok thank you! I'll definitely look into that.
So you'd recommend doing a light feeding right after the flush?
I'm still stumped as to what the cause is so I'm hesitant to add more nutrients but at the same time worried that at this stage neglecting nutrients might cause the problem to worsen.
 
MIGrampaUSA

MIGrampaUSA

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Interesting. Ok thank you! I'll definitely look into that.
So you'd recommend doing a light feeding right after the flush?
I'm still stumped as to what the cause is so I'm hesitant to add more nutrients but at the same time worried that at this stage neglecting nutrients might cause the problem to worsen.
The idea of the flush is to wash out the soil. The wash is indiscriminate and will wash out everything it can dissolve and trap in its solution. If you don't feed right after, then you could cause even more issues because you went from potential lock out of some nutrients to virtually no nutrients at all left in the mix ...
 
M

malpractice

7
3
.Its hungry. I'd use 3/4tsp/g bloom +1/2tsp/g grow
Its frustrating how many "could be this / could be that" diagnoses there could be and how similar an excess or deficiency can look. I'll give this a try and see where we land.
Thanks guys!
 
MIGrampaUSA

MIGrampaUSA

3,732
263
Its frustrating how many "could be this / could be that" diagnoses there could be and how similar an excess or deficiency can look. I'll give this a try and see where we land.
Thanks guys!
There's a bit of subjectivity to pictures. They most surely help, but being there in person makes it much easier to leave "could be" out of it. Also, the more experience a grower has, the more confident they are in what they've stated ... I try to phrase things more as a suggestion of "areas to look at" and solutions as "things to consider"

However, without all pieces of the puzzle, even an experienced grower isn't always 100%. There's a lot to see/learn and none of us has seen/learned it all.
 
M

malpractice

7
3
There's a bit of subjectivity to pictures. They most surely help, but being there in person makes it much easier to leave "could be" out of it. Also, the more experience a grower has, the more confident they are in what they've stated ... I try to phrase things more as a suggestion of "areas to look at" and solutions as "things to consider"

However, without all pieces of the puzzle, even an experienced grower isn't always 100%. There's a lot to see/learn and none of us has seen/learned it all.
I definitely have next to no experience so you can understand my concern hah. Heard back from dyna-gro as well who based on my reported feed schedule seemed to think i was underfeeding them as well....

Put together a solution like was previously suggested.. Hopefully it perks up 👍

I'll definitely report progress.

Thanks!
 
MIGrampaUSA

MIGrampaUSA

3,732
263
I definitely have next to no experience so you can understand my concern hah. Heard back from dyna-gro as well who based on my reported feed schedule seemed to think i was underfeeding them as well....

Put together a solution like was previously suggested.. Hopefully it perks up 👍

I'll definitely report progress.

Thanks!

@growsince79 is someone who has a lot of experience, certainly way more than most people here. He's not going to tell you to do something he thinks will harm your plants. Myself, I'm wondering if soggy bottom/improper drainage could be contributing to your issues but they do look hungry. We won't know more until you feed them and they grow a bit. If the problem persists in the new growth, we'll dig a bit deeper. The old growth won't heal.
 
growsince79

growsince79

9,065
313
Its frustrating how many "could be this / could be that" diagnoses there could be and how similar an excess or deficiency can look. I'll give this a try and see where we land.
Thanks guys!
When you say 1/4 strength-idk what that is when they say 2-3 tsp for example. I go by tsp/g - I use dyna...
 
growsince79

growsince79

9,065
313
@growsince79 is someone who has a lot of experience, certainly way more than most people here. He's not going to tell you to do something he thinks will harm your plants. Myself, I'm wondering if soggy bottom/improper drainage could be contributing to your issues but they do look hungry. We won't know more until you feed them and they grow a bit. If the problem persists in the new growth, we'll dig a bit deeper. The old growth won't heal.
Could be bad roots, could be ph. idk. Looks hungry for one reason or another.
 
MIGrampaUSA

MIGrampaUSA

3,732
263
Could be bad roots, could be ph. idk. Looks hungry for one reason or another.
@malpractice tell us more about those planters ... I'm curious to hear more about them ... picture seems to suggest a relatively small hole for the plant to come through in comparison to the planter size.

Edit: Feed them first though.
 
M

malpractice

7
3
@growsince79 is someone who has a lot of experience, certainly way more than most people here. He's not going to tell you to do something he thinks will harm your plants. Myself, I'm wondering if soggy bottom/improper drainage could be contributing to your issues but they do look hungry. We won't know more until you feed them and they grow a bit. If the problem persists in the new growth, we'll dig a bit deeper. The old growth won't heal.

When you say 1/4 strength-idk what that is when they say 2-3 tsp for example. I go by tsp/g - I use dyna...

@growsince79 That nutrient guide that I was using suggests 1/4, 1/8, 1/2 of the suggested dosing on the nutrient bottle. I must admit that now that I think about it, that's kinda sketchy considering it doesn't know which specific nutrient brand I am using.
I've been watering roughly every other day hopefully not soggy roots. Always check the top half inch with my finger to make sure it isn't damp before watering. Only time I watered while damp was today (after my flush yesterday) to get some nutrients back in the soil after the "looks hungry 3/4 tsp/g bloom / 1/2 tsp/g grow" advice.
A dyna-gro rep after hearing my measurements recommended I use at least 1/2 tsp/g and maybe even 1 tsp/g if it looks like I'm at a deficiency.
I will take a pH next time I water.

@MIGrampaUSA Its a generic plastic planter that I have added additional holes to. The bottom has several holes covering a pretty decent surface area. I've added a number of 1" holes on the sides of the pot as well. Its king of janky but hoped it'd allow for good drainage. I think for the next grow I'll pick up something a little more appropriate.
 
MIGrampaUSA

MIGrampaUSA

3,732
263
@growsince79 That nutrient guide that I was using suggests 1/4, 1/8, 1/2 of the suggested dosing on the nutrient bottle. I must admit that now that I think about it, that's kinda sketchy considering it doesn't know which specific nutrient brand I am using.
I've been watering roughly every other day hopefully not soggy roots. Always check the top half inch with my finger to make sure it isn't damp before watering. Only time I watered while damp was today (after my flush yesterday) to get some nutrients back in the soil after the "looks hungry 3/4 tsp/g bloom / 1/2 tsp/g grow" advice.
A dyna-gro rep after hearing my measurements recommended I use at least 1/2 tsp/g and maybe even 1 tsp/g if it looks like I'm at a deficiency.
I will take a pH next time I water.

@MIGrampaUSA Its a generic plastic planter that I have added additional holes to. The bottom has several holes covering a pretty decent surface area. I've added a number of 1" holes on the sides of the pot as well. Its king of janky but hoped it'd allow for good drainage. I think for the next grow I'll pick up something a little more appropriate.

It doesn't allow for much air flow over the top of the pot. Also it kind of forces you to water in a very limited location instead of evenly saturated side to side top down. It may not be contributing to your problem. It could easily be feed only. A cheap alternative for next run would be ordering a pack of fabric pots. It would help make determining when to water and when not so much easier.

In the mean time, can you safely expose more of the top soil so you can water the whole pot.
 
M

malpractice

7
3
It doesn't allow for much air flow over the top of the pot. Also it kind of forces you to water in a very limited location instead of evenly saturated side to side top down. It may not be contributing to your problem. It could easily be feed only. A cheap alternative for next run would be ordering a pack of fabric pots. It would help make determining when to water and when not so much easier.

In the mean time, can you safely expose more of the top soil so you can water the whole pot.
Definitely... Actually watching me water it is kind of funny because I try to get in there and there's a lot of shifting and turning and creeping between the lst anchors. But agreed... Need to score some fabric pots for next time.
 
M

malpractice

7
3
@growsince79 just a quick update. Seems to be progressing. Some yellowing and more pale green leaves. Watered today. Equivalent of 1tsp/gal bloom and 1/2 tap grow. pH of new water + nutrients was 6.4....pH of runoff was 6.2.

2am just got home from work. About all I can contribute right now. Ill see if there are any additional details I can add in the morning... Plant certainly seems hungry and pH is still in am ok range if I'm not mistaken.
 
S

Sod

25
13
PH seems a little low to me. I second the fabric grow bags. Much easier to tell when the soil is dry or wet, when to water or not.

SOD
 
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