Dirtbags Do-over... 🤪 Back to Organic!

[beluga]

Labels aside.
What do you want at your feet?

I'm in a pretty big post-industrial area (paper, steel, saw mills). The level of shit that has leached out from those plants (from decades or centuries ago) still sees areas of open land with hazard signs about playing on the grass... and that's just with the shit they know can cause acute toxicities.

I'd much rather "Shut Up and Take My Money!" at someone committed to the use of things that don't do that.

 

[Aqua Man]

For sure.
The world-systemic impact is definitely where I see the benefit of turning the tables on conventional practices.
I guess my question and what I, personally, don't think has had enough solid research put into it (if even possible without some crazy impractical generations-long tracing experiment) is the actual detriment that using these things has on an individual.
We're resilient, magnificent creatures capable of processing, mitigating, repelling, and remediating all sorts of shit that might be toxic to us.
But.. obviously some shit's going wrong with the state of health in the world, and I don't doubt for a second that food production has a large part to play in that.

Not sure what you mean by using these things on an individual? Nitrate is a Nitrate etc. Plants can only uptake inorganic salts.

 

[Aqua Man]

Labels aside.
What do you want at your feet?

I'm in a pretty big post-industrial area (paper, steel, saw mills). The level of shit that has leached out from those plants (from decades or centuries ago) still sees areas of open land with hazard signs about playing on the grass... and that's just with the shit they know can cause acute toxicities.

I'd much rather "Shut Up and Take My Money!" at someone committed to the use of things that don't do that.

When synthetic ferts are made there are requirements for testing. Organicis very far behind on this. So like your industrial area the soil is contaminated if it were used in composting and sold there are no real checks and balances until maybe some guy comes out to certify you as organic. Its not like these are are chemical per se that are just made in a lab. Synthetic is all the same elements the difference is only in how they are processed.

Good example of tainted organics is all the ecoli outbreaks... like @MIMedGrower said source is a major major factor

 

[beluga]

Not sure what you mean by using these things on an individual? Nitrate is a Nitrate etc. Plants can only uptake inorganic salts.

I guess what I mean is... what are the side effects? Are we absolutely certain that they don't uptake certain free radicals, for instance?
What are the synergistic effects of the inorganic salts that they take up when we're feeding them blends of things that we don't exactly understand, but are the only way to make available, those essential nutrients?
And do those things incorporate themselves into the plants we eat and thus transfer into us?

I definitely don't understand this shit well, and I'll definitely create some confusion because of that.

 

[Aqua Man]

I guess what I mean is... what are the side effects? Are we absolutely certain that they don't uptake certain free radicals, for instance?
What are the synergistic effects of the inorganic salts that they take up when we're feeding them blends of things that we don't exactly understand, but are the only way to make available, those essential nutrients?
And do those things incorporate themselves into the plants we eat and thus transfer into us?

I definitely don't understand this shit well, and I'll definitely create some confusion because of that.

I'm not sure what your asking? What free radicals?

 

[MIMedGrower]

I guess what I mean is... what are the side effects? Are we absolutely certain that they don't uptake certain free radicals, for instance?
What are the synergistic effects of the inorganic salts that they take up when we're feeding them blends of things that we don't exactly understand, but are the only way to make available, those essential nutrients?
And do those things incorporate themselves into the plants we eat and thus transfer into us?

I definitely don't understand this shit well, and I'll definitely create some confusion because of that.

Taking up only inorganic salts is not true. There is a root membrane that filters out particles by size. Other than that screen marijuana is an accumulator plant. It will take up a lot more stuff than salts.

they are planted around chernoble to help uptake the radioactive material in the topsoil.

 

[Aqua Man]

Taking up only inorganic salts is not true. There is a root membrane that filters out particles by size. Other than that screen marijuana is an accumulator plant. It will take up a lot more stuff than salts.

they are planted around chernoble to help uptake the radioactive material in the topsoil.

Yes I mean in terms of our nutrients. But your absolutely right

 

[beluga]

I'm not sure what your asking? What free radicals?

Essentially,
Where does the chain end? If we use synthetic fertilizers and pesticides that contain known carcinogens or toxins, at what point are they no longer available to be absorbed by us? Is it absolutely certain what is and what is not absorbed by plants and, subsequently, us?

My mention of free radicals was to say that, if a plant is taking up all these things, what's to stop a negative synergistic reaction from happening? What's to stop something like a free radical from modifying these synthetic fertilizer components into something detrimental to our health?
They same, of course, can be said for organic or naturally-occurring.
Which, I guess, brings it full-circle to the idea of feeding the soil and the microbial life in it to do all of that processing and allocating and making nutrients available in their natural state.

 

[Aqua Man]

Essentially,
Where does the chain end? If we use synthetic fertilizers and pesticides that contain known carcinogens or toxins, at what point are they no longer available to be absorbed by us? Is it absolutely certain what is and what is not absorbed by plants and, subsequently, us?

No different than using organic and pesticides.

What toxins or know carcinogenic are used in synthetic ferts?

If anything organics are more likely to contain them

 

[beluga]

What toxins or know carcinogenic are used in synthetic ferts?

And that's where I frantically look around the room for the nearest exit.

I'd be interested to dive into a deep R-Hole about that...

 

[MIMedGrower]

No different than using organic and pesticides.

What toxins or know carcinogenic are used in synthetic ferts?

If anything organics are more likely to contain them

i think your last statement is why there is an army of “organic” growers arguing so intensely on organic superiority. The truth always seems to hurt.

 

[MIMedGrower]

And that's where I frantically look around the room for the nearest exit.

I think i get where you are trying to go with your line of thinking. But we dont even really know what is causing all the cancer. We are still guessing from lab rat testing.

So like @Aqua Man said natural inputs are unrefined and may contain more “free radicals” than a processed chemical fertilizer with pharma grade ingredients.

 

[Milson]

I am suspicious of anyone who says they deeply understand all the ramifications of either approach, blend, whatever. This is a complex system with many moving parts.

So long as we try our best to be conscious of what we are pushing out into the world, i feel like that's the best we can do.

Any "rule" other than that seems as likely as not to have exceptions to me.

 

[Aqua Man]

And that's where I frantically look around the room for the nearest exit.

I'd be interested to dive into a deep R-Hole about that...

I'm far from knowing it all... this is mostly my opinion based on the research I have done. I'm always open to debate and learn. By all means bro share your opinions and knowledge in the end i think most here can agree we would rather have the right info than just be right... hope I'm not seeming like an ass I just like to debate and learn but I'm by no means an authority on the subject.

 

[beluga]

hope I'm not seeming like an ass I just like to debate and learn

Me too
And, quite frankly, it really helps for me to get my spiraling il/logic checked... cause sometimes I'll just start spouting shit that was an adjunct piece of adjacent data that has seemingly nothing to do with what I'm discussing because I've already made like five leaps in my train of thought... need to reel that shit in sometimes and all you great objective people here are perfect for that.

 

[Dirtbag]

This is an interesting discussion, but it is straying from the part of organic source fertilization that interests me the most. And the reason im trying it for myself. And that is the theoretical potential to improve the quality of the end product.

What rattles around in my head is the thought that when youre using a complete balanced ionic nutrient, your plant is getting everything it needs to grow a big beautiful plant. But thats all its getting.
What im curious about is the other things produced by the microbes feeding on the organic sources of nutrients, that cannot be found in a synthetic fertilizer program. And the impact those compounts have on the development of the plant and the terpene production and percieved flavour of the weed. There is no question, growers have known for decades that using bat guano Imparts a flavour, which wouldnt be possible if the plant was only taking up the nutrient ions it released. Whether people like that influence is subjective, im in the camp who likes what guano does to the taste of pot.

And i know its true that some organic fertilizers are high in things like mercury and other heavy metals. But from all the reading ive done it seems like both Gaia Green and Earth juice are considered to be some of the best, cleanest sources of organic nutrients on the market.

Frankly im more concerned about consuming heavy metals in my commercially produced food and beverages.

 

[Aqua Man]

Me too
And, quite frankly, it really helps for me to get my spiraling il/logic checked... cause sometimes I'll just start spouting shit that was an adjunct piece of adjacent data that has seemingly nothing to do with what I'm discussing because I've already made like five leaps in my train of thought... need to reel that shit in sometimes and all you great objective people here are perfect for that.

Call me bias but this community is one of the best at working together, communicating, debating and trying to find the right answer, most other communities that just throw mud pies trying to force thier agenda.

Plenty of great open minds here and I feel it makes it easier to discuss things without worry of shit show.

 

[tomatoesarecooltoo]

The oxygen we breath causes reactions that release free radicals. Free radicals cause chain reactions until they run into something like a vitamin C, which can take on the free radical without becoming reactive.

 

[Aqua Man]

This is an interesting discussion, but it is straying from the part of organic source fertilization that interests me the most. And the reason im trying it for myself. And that is the theoretical potential to improve the quality of the end product.

What rattles around in my head is the thought that when youre using a complete balanced ionic nutrient, your plant is getting everything it needs to grow a big beautiful plant. But thats all its getting.
What im curious about is the other things produced by the microbes feeding on the organic sources of nutrients, that cannot be found in a synthetic fertilizer program. And the impact those compounts have on the development of the plant and the terpene production and percieved flavour of the weed. There is no question, growers have known for decades that using bat guano Imparts a flavour, which wouldnt be possible if the plant was only taking up the nutrient ions it released. Whether people like that influence is subjective, im in the camp who likes what guano does to the taste of pot.

And i know its true that some organic fertilizers are high in things like mercury and other heavy metals. But from all the reading ive done it seems like both Gaia Green and Earth juice are considered to be some of the best, cleanest sources of organic nutrients on the market.

Frankly im more concerned about consuming heavy metals in my commercially produced food and beverages.

Yeah I wish there was some more science on this. I also feel that somehow, someway the microbes or symbiotic relationships they provide MAY or in my mind LIKELY provide benefits we are not aware of yet (or atleast i am not aware of)

Call it my inner hippie scientist.... something is just missing information wise and my gut says there are benefits we are missing.

 

[beluga]

Call me bias but this community is one of the best at working together, communicating, debating and trying to find the right answer, most other communities that just throw mud pies trying to force thier agenda.

Plenty of great open minds here and I feel it makes it easier to discuss things without worry of shit show.

I think that's how we got started on this... an anti-bottle warrior chiming in on dirt's Deplorable organic practices..

This is an interesting discussion, but it is straying from the part of organic source fertilization that interests me the most. And the reason im trying it for myself. And that is the theoretical potential to improve the quality of the end product.

What rattles around in my head is the thought that when youre using a complete balanced ionic nutrient, your plant is getting everything it needs to grow a big beautiful plant. But thats all its getting.
What im curious about is the other things produced by the microbes feeding on the organic sources of nutrients, that cannot be found in a synthetic fertilizer program. And the impact those compounts have on the development of the plant and the terpene production and percieved flavour of the weed. There is no question, growers have known for decades that using bat guano Imparts a flavour, which wouldnt be possible if the plant was only taking up the nutrient ions it released. Whether people like that influence is subjective, im in the camp who likes what guano does to the taste of pot.

And i know its true that some organic fertilizers are high in things like mercury and other heavy metals. But from all the reading ive done it seems like both Gaia Green and Earth juice are considered to be some of the best, cleanest sources of organic nutrients on the market.

Frankly im more concerned about consuming heavy metals in my commercially produced food and beverages.

Yeah, I'm into it for the enzymes... that shit is fascinating and probably capable of the extraordinary... or just the Very ordinary Very Proficiently.