does phosphorous actually speed up flowering transition?

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weed420420420420420

weed420420420420420

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how do I ask this... Does phosphorous help tell the plants "it's time to get going" and kick them into flower mode?
Or is it more like "wait till I see it happening" first?
 
MIGrampaUSA

MIGrampaUSA

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how do I ask this... Does phosphorous help tell the plants "it's time to get going" and kick them into flower mode?
Or is it more like "wait till I see it happening" first?
It's more like the plant requires more phosphorus as it enters into flowering and through to mid flower where the amount needed is beginning to taper off. (So no, it's not a trigger or lever that you can pull to induce flowering.) Potassium steps in mid flower to the finish. How does that translate to you as the grower? It all depends. If you're an organic grower, you want that in the soil about a week before you anticipate flipping to flower. If you use salts, there's no need to feed the soil in advance.

The sun, whether it's artificial or real, and the darkness cycle is what triggers flowering. The rest are the "vitamins and minerals" that support the plants growth.
 
weed420420420420420

weed420420420420420

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Potassium from banana peels is actually good isn't it? Like just the white stuff scraped off the peel not the whole thing.
 
MIGrampaUSA

MIGrampaUSA

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I've never used banana peels. I use Roots Organic Lush for my soil and Roots Organic Terp Teas dry nutrient line. The only thing I add to my soil is some perlite and vermiculite. (Vermiculite promotes cation transfer and aids in nutrient uptake.)

There's many people that have made their own soils from composting. I'm just not one of them. I'm more trusting of a company with an R&D department getting it right than I am myself mixing my own from scratch.
 
RootsRuler

RootsRuler

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It's more like the plant requires more phosphorus as it enters into flowering and through to mid flower where the amount needed is beginning to taper off. (So no, it's not a trigger or lever that you can pull to induce flowering.) Potassium steps in mid flower to the finish. How does that translate to you as the grower? It all depends. If you're an organic grower, you want that in the soil about a week before you anticipate flipping to flower. If you use salts, there's no need to feed the soil in advance.

The sun, whether it's artificial or real, and the darkness cycle is what triggers flowering. The rest are the "vitamins and minerals" that support the plants growth.
Agree with everything except the not needing to pre dose if you're using salt based ferts.

I start feeding bloom mix a week or so before I change up light schedule.

OP the phospho in itself does not trigger the flower response. The change in light availability does. The reason I pre load is to make sure the root zone has plenty to take up once it does enter the flower stage along with phospho coursing through the plant itself once that hormonal change happens.

Check the active ingredients for Bud Igniter from Advanced. Phosphorous with a little Potassium to keep water levels inside the plant where they need to be among other things. I've used Bud Igniter and can confirm that it does seem to pop new bud sites faster along with faster pistil formation.
 
growsince79

growsince79

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Agree with everything except the not needing to pre dose if you're using salt based ferts.

I start feeding bloom mix a week or so before I change up light schedule.

OP the phospho in itself does not trigger the flower response. The change in light availability does. The reason I pre load is to make sure the root zone has plenty to take up once it does enter the flower stage along with phospho coursing through the plant itself once that hormonal change happens.

Check the active ingredients for Bud Igniter from Advanced. Phosphorous with a little Potassium to keep water levels inside the plant where they need to be among other things. I've used Bud Igniter and can confirm that it does seem to pop new bud sites faster along with faster pistil formation.
Agree pretty much. Longer answer is its not so much the amount of P availible but the ratio's that helps steer into faster flowers. It's somewhat strain dependent too; but ime limiting the N while raising P will shorten the flower cycle in most.
 
MIGrampaUSA

MIGrampaUSA

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Agree pretty much. Longer answer is its not so much the amount of P availible but the ratio's that helps steer into faster flowers. It's somewhat strain dependent too; but ime limiting the N while raising P will shorten the flower cycle in most.
Ahhh but none of this would happen if the light cycle isn't right.

We don't want someone thinking that they can dump a ton of Phosphate products on their outdoor plants and they will move the clock forward a couple of weeks. It doesn't happen that way, and doing so can do more harm than good. Phosphates don't control the light cycle.
 
growsince79

growsince79

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Ahhh but none of this would happen if the light cycle isn't right.

We don't want someone thinking that they can dump a ton of Phosphate products on their outdoor plants and they will move the clock forward a couple of weeks. It doesn't happen that way, and doing so can do more harm than good. Phosphates don't control the light cycle.
True with photo plants. But take identical clones and give one high N and the other low N high P; starting at flip and I gauruntee the low N high P clone will finish faster.
 
MIGrampaUSA

MIGrampaUSA

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True with photo plants. But take identical clones and give one high N and the other low N high P; starting at flip and I gauruntee the low N high P clone will finish faster.
I won't argue that. A properly nourished plant will always finish faster. It doesn't speed up the plant's biological clock though. It only provides the support it needs to finish within its genetic potential.

You can slow down it's maturation with improper care but it's genetic clock determines how fast it can finish even under perfect care.
 
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growsince79

growsince79

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I won't argue that. A properly nourished plant will always finish faster. It doesn't speed up the plant's biological clock though. It only provides the support it needs to finish within its genetic potential.

What does this mean? You can slow down it's maturation with improper care but it's genetic clock determines how fast it can finish even under perfect care.
What it means is the nute ratio affects growth in different ways. High N promotes veg growth and retards flower production. By changing the ratio, you change the plants biological clock. Indoors under 12-12, the heavy N plant will be bigger and leafier than its high P twin- and take longer to finish. Both ways provide the clones every thing it needs to be perfectly healthy- they just grow different.
 
MIGrampaUSA

MIGrampaUSA

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If you concentrate on giving the plants what they need, and not try to jump start them by over-feeding them ... mother nature will do the rest. @growsince79 is right about balance. Out of balance will cause you harm. Phosphates in over-abundance is harmful.
 
weed420420420420420

weed420420420420420

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Ya. I think it's just about time. Gonna throw just a half cup of FF fruit n flower (yellow bag) at them. They haven't had anything for a while. Half cup wont hurt anything.
 
growsince79

growsince79

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What it means is the nute ratio affects growth in different ways. High N promotes veg growth and retards flower production. By changing the ratio, you change the plants biological clock. Indoors under 12-12, the heavy N plant will be bigger and leafier than its high P twin- and take longer to finish. Both ways provide the clones every thing it needs to be perfectly healthy- they just grow different.

If you concentrate on giving the plants what they need, and not try to jump start them by over-feeding them ... mother nature will do the rest. @growsince79 is right about balance. Out of balance will cause you harm. Phosphates in over-abundance is harmful.
I thought he was talking indoor. Outdoors Idk, I'd just do balanced like peters 20-20-20.
 

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