Down to Earth Dry Amendments/ feeding

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Bagseedsteve

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Hello all ive been putting off making an account and posting in the fourns of fear of looking like a dumbass but I really feel like I havent found my answer. Im all about trial and error rather than asking questions Im just not trying to spend to much more money as this is just one of my hobbies.
OK so basically this is my second grow and this time im trying to dial in on my feeding and watering my plants better. Last time i felt I started to pick up on it a little to late. Anyways Im using Down to Earth 4-4-4 dry amendments. I want to start doing conpost teas aswell. I guess what im rambling on about is.... when I top dress should I use the 4-4-4 and mix it with stuff like earth worm castings etc etc or is that what the compost tea is for? Orrr are they the same orrr is the compost tea like a boost between foods because its slow release. Any help would be cool also im growing in coco in a 4x4 King LED 1500w (and about to purchase a second one.) the five are my IlGM regular Durban Poison seeds and the other two are some clones from my first bag seed grow. Thank you if you actually take some time to read my novel snd help me figure this out. This hobby means a lot to me. Im not just another stoner that thinks its cool to grow his own stash. This last year of growing has been a huge eye opener for me and ive found a deeper love for botany. Im rambling must be that stativa.
 
az2000

az2000

965
143
Im using Down to Earth 4-4-4 dry amendments. I want to start doing compost teas as well.
im growing in coco

I've never grown in coco. Maybe someone who has will give a better reply. But, I don't think that will work. I think you need to use coco-specific (synthetic) nutrients, directly available. I think the DtE products are more for organically-active soil.

Maybe it's better to ask, how did you come up with this combination? Have you seen someone use it successfully? If you're a new grower, usually it's better to start with something that's known to work, something you can follow without much risk of surprise. After you get some experience, then experiment with ideas (be able to read the plant, etc.).
 
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Bagseedsteve

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A youtuber uses this gia green which is supposed to be the same but its not here in the states only canada. My plants seem to like it they’re 1ft at 5weeks from seed.
 
oldskol4evr

oldskol4evr

12,192
438
Hello all ive been putting off making an account and posting in the fourns of fear of looking like a dumbass but I really feel like I havent found my answer. Im all about trial and error rather than asking questions Im just not trying to spend to much more money as this is just one of my hobbies.
OK so basically this is my second grow and this time im trying to dial in on my feeding and watering my plants better. Last time i felt I started to pick up on it a little to late. Anyways Im using Down to Earth 4-4-4 dry amendments. I want to start doing conpost teas aswell. I guess what im rambling on about is.... when I top dress should I use the 4-4-4 and mix it with stuff like earth worm castings etc etc or is that what the compost tea is for? Orrr are they the same orrr is the compost tea like a boost between foods because its slow release. Any help would be cool also im growing in coco in a 4x4 King LED 1500w (and about to purchase a second one.) the five are my IlGM regular Durban Poison seeds and the other two are some clones from my first bag seed grow. Thank you if you actually take some time to read my novel snd help me figure this out. This hobby means a lot to me. Im not just another stoner that thinks its cool to grow his own stash. This last year of growing has been a huge eye opener for me and ive found a deeper love for botany. Im rambling must be that stativa.
im not familar with the 4-4-4,i ave used several of there products,you can use both,but top dress give a week and the tea,you cant over do tea if your mixing for the stage of growth,example,while vegging you want more nitrogen,flower you want more phosphrus and potassium,in coco you have to feed every time,so tea is your best bet ,top scratch what ever amount your gonna use ,then feed tea couple times scratch some more and so on if you dig,after you veg and flip,focus more on manure compost more,that way you can drop most of your n and let the shit give it to the plant,focus more on using guano for p and maybe potash for k,so i make 33 gal at a time,when i use the guano and potash,it only about 2 tbsp of each the rest is handful of compost and kelp is great at this point,any way add to a old pair of panty hose or go to home depot get some the filter bags painters use,if you have egg shell or coffe from the morning feast throw it in,banana peels too,tie off bag and hang were your bubbler can get it going,1/4 cup molasses and let her go good stuff,you could use what you plan but leave your self open for wondering,right wondering if you get a burn or what not,what caused it,in soil about 3 days and you will know,coco about 1 1/2 day and you will know what up,so best bet is to alternate,now if you have a lock out,then the even number NPK isnt gonna work,if your high as hell in nitrogen why would you add more right,conclusion it your plants you have to feel it out either way you go
 
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Bagseedsteve

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So you say scratch meaning top dress? If so you’re saying when I top dress i should water it with teas as food while it breaks down and then so on so forth. This is ture I guess just gotta learn how thirst the olant ks bu being catious and backing off ig too much.... As for flowering you say compost as in the tea still? Id start to feed it less 4-4-4 obviously id use something more like 2-8-4 with teas aswell would that work for the flowering stage? Im just really trying to get a grasp on this I appreciate your help so much!!
 
cosabuena

cosabuena

2
1
hey. i did the same method. My first grow started good. then i replanted my autos thinking itll be ok. Stunted all my plants (4).
i used 4-4-4 in veg. then i top dress 2-8-4 when flowering started. did not use any tea. just water. i feel if i didnt replant them i could of had 3x more the yield i got initially. one plant yielded 20g dry (girl scout cookie), 2nd plant about 15 gram, 3rd plant (half the plant) 15g (goriila glue). Last plant of girl scout needs another week or two to harvest.

i feel this method of growing is very simple. as long as u dont get lazy. im exited for my second grow
 
philosogrower

philosogrower

5
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Hey I’m doing a similar grow style, slow release Dr earth & down to earth in coco.
just wondering how this grow turned out for you @Bagseedsteve
What ratio of amendment to medium are you using? Right now I'm running 2.3 Tsp / 1 gallon of medium. I've seen that there are folks running the stuff at 2 Tbspns / 1 gallon of medium.
 
bigbagofbuds

bigbagofbuds

56
18
So you say scratch meaning top dress? If so you’re saying when I top dress i should water it with teas as food while it breaks down and then so on so forth. This is ture I guess just gotta learn how thirst the olant ks bu being catious and backing off ig too much.... As for flowering you say compost as in the tea still? Id start to feed it less 4-4-4 obviously id use something more like 2-8-4 with teas aswell would that work for the flowering stage? Im just really trying to get a grasp on this I appreciate your help so much!!
What ratio of amendment to medium are you using? Right now I'm running 2.3 Tsp / 1 gallon of medium. I've seen that there are folks running the stuff at 2 Tbspns / 1 gallon of medium.

I used this method with success for 2 auto flowering plants that went 74 days and harvested around 4 ounces total (first grow).
I used 5 gallon air pots with 75% coco coir and 25% perlite.
I initially amended with 2 tbsp per gallon of 4-4-4 (I would change this to 75% 4-4-4, and 25% 2-8-4, I got some early nitrogen toxicity but it went away after introducing 2-8-4 with the first re-amendment)
I re-amended with 4 tbsp total (2 1/2 teaspoons per gallon) every 4 weeks.
I brewed compost tea and applied at full strength every 2 weeks.

This worked well for the auto flowers, but I have had troubles with the photo periods, I'm guessing it wasn't enough nutrients for the longer life of a photo period but have yet to harvest those so things are still in progress.

My understanding is that the compost tea is mostly for the microbial life boost and does not provide much nutrition if only the tea is applied, you can however brew the tea using your dry amendments and then top dress with the solids after brewing the tea and finish off with watering the tea in.

A majority of the nutrients in the dry amendments are not water soluble and must be consumed by microorganisms before they can be made available to the plant.

@Bagseedsteve let us know how that harvest went and if you did something different this year!
 
Oklahomagrow3r

Oklahomagrow3r

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3
I used down to earth nutrients for the first time this year. I based my recipe off of a youtuber as well, it seemed to work well for me
 
B0ssD0ss

B0ssD0ss

558
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Following because I'm on the fence about this and curious about heading that direction in my next grow.
 
ArealBoy

ArealBoy

3
1
I used this method with success for 2 auto flowering plants that went 74 days and harvested around 4 ounces total (first grow).
I used 5 gallon air pots with 75% coco coir and 25% perlite.
I initially amended with 2 tbsp per gallon of 4-4-4 (I would change this to 75% 4-4-4, and 25% 2-8-4, I got some early nitrogen toxicity but it went away after introducing 2-8-4 with the first re-amendment)
I re-amended with 4 tbsp total (2 1/2 teaspoons per gallon) every 4 weeks.
I brewed compost tea and applied at full strength every 2 weeks.

This worked well for the auto flowers, but I have had troubles with the photo periods, I'm guessing it wasn't enough nutrients for the longer life of a photo period but have yet to harvest those so things are still in progress.

My understanding is that the compost tea is mostly for the microbial life boost and does not provide much nutrition if only the tea is applied, you can however brew the tea using your dry amendments and then top dress with the solids after brewing the tea and finish off with watering the tea in.

A majority of the nutrients in the dry amendments are not water soluble and must be consumed by microorganisms before they can be made available to the plant.

@Bagseedsteve let us know how that harvest went and if you did something different this year!
Thank you. That's what I was wondering. Having nitrogen toxicity problems. I will top dress tonight with the bloom. Just using coco, and 4-4-4 and some earthworm castings. I've added azos and mykos and silica blast though so maybe it's the azos.
 
bigbagofbuds

bigbagofbuds

56
18
Thank you. That's what I was wondering. Having nitrogen toxicity problems. I will top dress tonight with the bloom. Just using coco, and 4-4-4 and some earthworm castings. I've added azos and mykos and silica blast though so maybe it's the azos.

Hey @ArealBoy, I should clarify that top dressing with the 2-8-4 doesn't make the nitrogen toxicity go away, its just that by the time I went to amend the medium, most of the 4-4-4 had already been consumed. So keep that in mind. You have to be a bit careful with 4-4-4 and autoflowering plants, 75% of the 4% nitrogen (3% of the 4%) is readily available and doesn't need to be broken down. I am looking into combining 4-4-4 with some alfalfa meal and insect frass this year to reduce the amount of readily available nitrogen to something the autoflowers can handle. The idea is that the lower amount of free nitrogen will be maintained at a good level as the alfalfa meal and insect frass breaks down.

Also worth noting is that I have started using Recharge microbes in the past 6 months. I have definitely noticed that Recharge will greatly accelerate the decomposition of organic matter into readily available nitrogen. This has caused nitrogen toxicity to appear within a week of application to my autoflowers so I no longer use the full dose and I use it once at the time I apply my 2-8-4 top dress.

In regards to my past comments about the photo period plants. I wanted to add that from my limited experience they are much more hungry than the autoflowers and will happily grow with 2 tbsp per gallon pre amendment and then an additional 2 tbsp per gallon every 3-4 weeks.

Good luck with your grow!
 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

Supporter
456
93
I don't think that will work. I think you need to use coco-specific (synthetic) nutrients, directly available.

DTE organic dry mixes will absolutely work in coco. Just add a teaspoon per gallon of gypsum for calcium (not lime, which will jack up the pH) and a good humate source like castings or Mr. Fulvic to buffer the coco. I've used coco as the base for my organic mixes for years and it works great.
 
Roonie

Roonie

2
3
DTE organic dry mixes will absolutely work in coco. Just add a teaspoon per gallon of gypsum for calcium (not lime, which will jack up the pH) and a good humate source like castings or Mr. Fulvic to buffer the coco. I've used coco as the base for my organic mixes for years and it works great.

What pH did everyone have success with growing organically? I’ve seen many forums where people said they had bad luck growing in Coco with organic dry amendments. I know people are trying to replicate Mr. Canucks on YouTube. He does have some killer flower. He says he gives it a pH from 6.5 - 6.8. Is this the correct range where people have had success? The ones that aren’t successful never seem to talk about the pH range they were using, just that it didn’t go so well. Maybe they messed up and did the 5.5 - 6.5. I know you’re supposed to treat coco coir like hydro, but when feeding organic dry amendments, the pH needs to be up higher. Can anyone confirm the success of a 6.5 - 6.8 pH range when growing organically in coco?
 
bigbagofbuds

bigbagofbuds

56
18
What pH did everyone have success with growing organically? I’ve seen many forums where people said they had bad luck growing in Coco with organic dry amendments. I know people are trying to replicate Mr. Canucks on YouTube. He does have some killer flower. He says he gives it a pH from 6.5 - 6.8. Is this the correct range where people have had success? The ones that aren’t successful never seem to talk about the pH range they were using, just that it didn’t go so well. Maybe they messed up and did the 5.5 - 6.5. I know you’re supposed to treat coco coir like hydro, but when feeding organic dry amendments, the pH needs to be up higher. Can anyone confirm the success of a 6.5 - 6.8 pH range when growing organically in coco?

I have had more success at 6.5 than 6.8+ I try to move across a range of 6 to 6.5 and have had similar success to Mr. Canuck in this range. One of the harder things is timing the top dressing because you dont want to overfeed but also cannot wait for deficiencies to appear (top dressing is too slow for an immediate fix). The schedule you follow should start from something generic like first top dress at 4 weeks then top dress every 3 weeks, but then you should dial it in for your plants for the next run after seeing how they react to the top dress timings. I also highly recommend mixing the top dress with some compost to prevent it from caking up on the surface of the medium (happens near the end of the run when the roots have a solid hold over the top inch of medium), the caking can make watering more difficult.

Good luck with your grow!
 
B0ssD0ss

B0ssD0ss

558
63
I have had more success at 6.5 than 6.8+ I try to move across a range of 6 to 6.5 and have had similar success to Mr. Canuck in this range. One of the harder things is timing the top dressing because you dont want to overfeed but also cannot wait for deficiencies to appear (top dressing is too slow for an immediate fix). The schedule you follow should start from something generic like first top dress at 4 weeks then top dress every 3 weeks, but then you should dial it in for your plants for the next run after seeing how they react to the top dress timings. I also highly recommend mixing the top dress with some compost to prevent it from caking up on the surface of the medium (happens near the end of the run when the roots have a solid hold over the top inch of medium), the caking can make watering more difficult.

Good luck with your grow!
I notice this caking you mentioned in my last organic grow. I tried mix the top dressing in with my fingers or even a small take to try and mix good with the soil but didn't seem to get it down far enough in the soil. But this is all a learning experience for sure.
 
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