downey mildew/septoria/blight/rust issues

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BuBBleboy

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Ok... so its back. I have kept it from getting out of control with my JMS stylet oil dunks in veg and my RH being low and my temp being around 80 degrees. I haven't used anything in flower and I am getting small cases of what looks like cal/nitrogen deff., necrosis, and then death on my older growth and fan leaves.
I tested to make sure it wasn't a PH or burn problem, and when I took some cuts from my P.K. and M.T.F and threw them in 100% RH my seedlings that where thriving up till 3 days ago all showed PM from being with the cuttings.
I am scared a couple weeks before harvest all my flowers are going to come down with mold.
Should I use any organic products to prevent this before the PM shows up? Should I spary them with a fungicide only if they show the PM, and hope they just never do...
I have zone and penatrator, JMS stylet oil, Great White, PH down, milk, and peroxide. I have used them to fight PM before, but they greatly damaged the buds, thankfully the last case was nothing like this. I have heard things about green cure, agri-fros, and a few other remedies, but any suggestions are appreciated. I realize CA is just one of those areas that has it, so how do all you guys deal with this year around and still put out anything?
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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Your title talks about a bunch of different things, and I can speak specifically to treatment for black spot (Septoria spp. fungi). That required repeated treatments with a copper spray, I used Cop-R-Safe, had to seriously up the dose to get the Septoria good and gone.

PM I've not had a problem with, really, the only time was when I received in some cuts that had it. Two treatments with a product called Soya'nara was all that was necessary, along with keeping them outdoors.
 
motherlode

motherlode

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people really need to stop making duplicate posts

especially when the answers could have been easily found using the search feature
 
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BuBBleboy

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since my case is so minimum, it is really hard for me to tell what is is exactly. I had PM at my old house mixed with late blight. In using all of the methods I listed above I ended up with a really light harvest, and no resin on my buds. I had to battle day and night for that crop, however this is not the case right now. My girls are flourishing, getting good flowers and healthy new growth, and are about 4 weeks in on a 8-9week run. Right now it looks like I have DM or a rust fungi (maybe both, maybe it's what I had before...? i don't know 100%).
It is only getting at the older/low light leaves, while my buds and the majority of the plant are fine. I maybe fill a red party cup with dead leaves that just die of necrosis about every 2-3 days, off of 4 shoulder high trees.

my question is...

Do you guys think it's better to treat them with something now. or hope that by the next month It doesn't get to the buds simply by keeping my RH/and temp at what it is now?
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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I prefer to treat as soon as I know there's a problem. Like I had to do tonight. I just discovered my Blockhead mother is covered with little spots of PM and I found random spots on other girls. Everyone came out and got a good spraying down with Soya'nara. Of course, all are in veg, but still, I'm not going to play around with something like that. I'd treat it, but you've got to figure out for sure what it is. The defoliation and patter sounds an awful lot like Septoria, which requires a copper-based fungicide (it did when I had to treat it), and that's going to leave blue stuff all over, cannot be consumed, would require being washed off.

This is my opinion, I can't say for sure of course. But you might want to start searching the different .edu and ag sites for more info.
 
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BuBBleboy

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I'll be adding soya'nara to the veg fungicide regiment, thanks, you sold me. I think I also want to try agri-fros. I guess I'll just have to be on the mold attack always in this state?

When you had septoria did it ever show mold spores, affect the buds towards the end, or did it just attack the foliage (and of course hurting the growth). I guess just spray with milk if I see spores show up, and hope for the best???
 
U

up yours

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Hey motherlode you seem to be the peanut gallery maybe it is you who should find a new place to be agro you could have helped w/ his problem not be jerk at least and besides you only add to thisproblem everytime you whine I do not like your kind what so ever you are simply a bully and a cad
Up Yours
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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I'll be adding soya'nara to the veg fungicide regiment, thanks, you sold me. I think I also want to try agri-fros also. I guess I'll just have to be on the mold attack always in this state?

When you had septoria did it ever show mold spores, affect the buds towards the end, or did it just attack the foliage (and of course hurting the growth). I guess just spray with milk if I see it show up and hope for the best???
I never saw spores, and the way it initially expressed made Dx extremely difficult, because the spots weren't black. What happened was lower leaves would yellow, but left bright green spots, that eventually became necrotic, turned brown then black.

Because the yellowing would become severe those leaves would drop. After a while, it began defoliating the plants pretty quickly. I wouldn't put girls like that into flower, so I treated hard while in veg before putting into flower. Glad, because the Cop-R-Safe turns things blue.

The milk treatment is for powdery mildew of cucurbits. You can try it, but I don't think it will have an effect on a pathogen such as Septoria.
 
motherlode

motherlode

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Hey motherlode you seem to be the peanut gallery maybe it is you who should find a new place to be agro you could have helped w/ his problem not be jerk at least and besides you only add to thisproblem everytime you whine I do not like your kind what so ever you are simply a bully and a cad
Up Yours


oh yes Im a bully and a cad

all i do is help people, that makes me a bully

pointing out that this question has been answered in these forums DOZENS of times (by myself at least 6 times) and that the poster posted the same question twice makes me a cad

if you dont like me - tough shit

edit:

there are rules here...

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while you at it you should also be aware of this one

3. Flaming/Trolling: Flames are posts intended to insult and provoke. Posters who speak incessantly and/or rabidly on some relatively uninteresting subject or with a patently ridiculous attitude will be banned. Repeated posts directed with hostility at a particular person or group of people or their beliefs will be cause for banning. Any individual who chronically trolls, who regularly posts arguments, flames or personal attacks for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion will be banned. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait.

have a nice day!
 
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BuBBleboy

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Next time I will make sure to be a little more clear with my title, and in less of a rush when I post for the 2nd time... on accident... as a new member (my bad). Besides that, can you stop flaming my post, troll, and answer my question? because unless you want to pull up some quotes, I don't believe my question has been directly answered in the hours I've spent on here and ICmag researching this... except by seamaiden some what (thanks seamaiden!). Obviously if i know most of the remedies (including the Dutch Master mix, so I have put my due time in searching for the answer.)

By the way seamaiden a 1/10 ratio of 2% milk works great on late flower PM in my experience, however I was washing it off after with PH down/RO water and keeping my girls soaked the last couple days during lights out. I wouldn't let them get damp by spraying at light off, and twice more every 4 hrs during. They dried quick once lights where back on, and I had no spores on any of my harvest (I am really allergic some molds, so I didn't take a chance).


I know what I need to treat with for the most part, and what I have read it pretty common to have multiple kinds of fungi attacking your plants. The problem I'm having in figuring out what the fungi is, is from the mixed symptoms. It expresses stem sores and mold when is present in 100% RH (like PM)/ defoliation from necrosis, and what looks like calcium/nitrogen deff. on low light and older leaves (like septoria and rust fungi). On top of that the dead necrotic leaves look just like the pictures I see of DM. With all that in mind, if it is only septoria, I should be only worried about the growth it is inhibiting in my leaves, and not really worry about it hurting my buds (so spraying anything this late would be useless, as I'm pulling off the big leaves anyways).
If it is PM showing itself as blight because the spores can't grow in the RH/temp I have (like my last house had), than I might want to spray now, or forever hold my peace. I have never had DM, so don't really have a plan on that one, but I've been looking into some .edu sites that should put me in the right direction.

So my question again is when do you guys know to throw in the towel and spray, or would most of you play the waiting game to see if the spores ever show?

If you would like to touch on this with all of your experience... give us new gardeners the MOTHERLOAD of answers... troll.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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Motherlode isn't a troll, he knows his stuff.

As far as your question, that is really tough to answer unequivocally. I would have to weigh all factors first--how far into flower they are, the pros and cons of treatments, treatment protocol needs to be considered, all of that.

So... what would I do if I had a batch of girls, let's say they're in their 8th week and I see this..? I probably would not treat for Septoria (have you familiarized yourself with its vectors, control, etc? It's persistent, but NOT systemic like PM, it can be completely eradicated), but I think I would definitely treat for PM.

Like I'm doing right now. Found it in my veg-table night before last, then last night I found it in the flower room. Veg-table got Soya'nara since it's full of babies, even though OxiDate can be used on seedlings I didn't want to. Flower room got OxiDate + a double dose of stylet oil (needs a spreader anyway). Will be treating with those as long as I'm supplied, Soya'nara I'm almost out of and it smells kinda funky, like rancid grease, so there's no way I'd use it on a girl in flower for that, I'd stick with the OxiDate.

MAN that stuff is caustic, too! Good thing I keep a paper suit on hand.

Thank you very much for the tip on using milk in late flower. Hopefully I won't have too many problems, but I'm going to keep that one in mind. I would have used skim milk, too.
 
Dunge

Dunge

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For me, ignorant and threatened, this is a great thread.
Breaking down the fungal threats and response options used by fellow growers is worthwhile reading.
I have an active post in the infirmary that only Seamaiden has offered help on. Thank you.
What I have learned is that my issue is shared by others and is not a commonly recognized problem.
My efforts to search this forum have been less than satisfactory for the most part. I get thread links, but have a hard time sifting through all the noise to find the keywords I am interested in only to find them on no use.
As for my current situation:

I have been inspecting and removing the few offending leaves and feel that the problem may be under control. But the threat level remains 'orange'.
 
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BuBBleboy

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Motherlode isn't a troll, he knows his stuff.

As far as your question, that is really tough to answer unequivocally. I would have to weigh all factors first--how far into flower they are, the pros and cons of treatments, treatment protocol needs to be considered, all of that.

So... what would I do if I had a batch of girls, let's say they're in their 8th week and I see this..? I probably would not treat for Septoria (have you familiarized yourself with its vectors, control, etc? It's persistent, but NOT systemic like PM, it can be completely eradicated), but I think I would definitely treat for PM.

Like I'm doing right now. Found it in my veg-table night before last, then last night I found it in the flower room. Veg-table got Soya'nara since it's full of babies, even though OxiDate can be used on seedlings I didn't want to. Flower room got OxiDate + a double dose of stylet oil (needs a spreader anyway). Will be treating with those as long as I'm supplied, Soya'nara I'm almost out of and it smells kinda funky, like rancid grease, so there's no way I'd use it on a girl in flower for that, I'd stick with the OxiDate.

MAN that stuff is caustic, too! Good thing I keep a paper suit on hand.

Thank you very much for the tip on using milk in late flower. Hopefully I won't have too many problems, but I'm going to keep that one in mind. I would have used skim milk, too.

Thanks! I think I am going to have to get at them with some stylet.
How late have you used it in flower, and does it leave anything bad that needs to be rinsed off? I haven't used oxidate, bit I'm looking it up as we speak. thanks again!
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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This is my first real bout, everything is in veg, but that said I would feel more comfortable using stylet than Soya'nara late(r) in flower because I believe the Soya'nara must be perishable. Mine stinks of rancid oil, don't care for that and would *not* want it on my good buds. I've never noticed a scent with stylet. I have sniffer problems, though, so if someone comes in here and says it has a smell, I can't argue that because I don't know anything other than what I experience. Ya dig?
 
U

up yours

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I am sorry I did not mean to get him going but he iritated me in other posts and I feel we should help not squelch so in that vein thank you seamaiden you rock I learned a lot from you both I usually use organicide by the directions only I spray in dark cycle start and allow to dry fully it is voodoo baby and again sorry ihad a better response for motherlode but my android died I am a former store manager and cfo for an indoor garden store and I am still a newb to we will learn but not by bullying and browbeating feel free to ask me any questions and will give an opinion if you want it I still can't pm but can answer in forum til then later. Up Yours:joint:
 
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BuBBleboy

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This is my first real bout, everything is in veg, but that said I would feel more comfortable using stylet than Soya'nara late(r) in flower because I believe the Soya'nara must be perishable. Mine stinks of rancid oil, don't care for that and would *not* want it on my good buds. I've never noticed a scent with stylet. I have sniffer problems, though, so if someone comes in here and says it has a smell, I can't argue that because I don't know anything other than what I experience. Ya dig?

I full dunk my girls in stylet in veg, and notice only a shine like neem oil on the leaves. But I have never tried it in flower. The directions online stress that it will only protect what it is covering so the dunk is ideal in my opinion. I used the oil as directed for roses and other similar flowers and it burnt them a little, so I am a little scared to use even the lowest directed dose. I am going to try it on my bubbaxhashplants tonight or tomorrow and see how it goes.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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Stylet oil burned your roses..? Wow. Well, I'm using it at 2oz/gallon and so far they're doing fine. I'm physically limited or I'd be dunking the entire plant as well.
 
motherlode

motherlode

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I am sorry I did not mean to get him going but he iritated me in other posts and I feel we should help not squelch so in that vein thank you seamaiden you rock I learned a lot from you both I usually use organicide by the directions only I spray in dark cycle start and allow to dry fully it is voodoo baby and again sorry ihad a better response for motherlode but my android died I am a former store manager and cfo for an indoor garden store and I am still a newb to we will learn but not by bullying and browbeating feel free to ask me any questions and will give an opinion if you want it I still can't pm but can answer in forum til then later. Up Yours:joint:

I irritated you?

really because I seem to remember your very first post here on the farm you said i wasnt very bright - you did nothing to answer the guys question - you just trolled my post, like how you followed me here and trolled my post
 
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BuBBleboy

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hey i'm not sure you guys might have a better place to talk about how much you don't like each other? but.... this post is kind of about how much I hate mold, so thanks for helping, but PM each other or something unless you guys have some positive things to say on the topic.
 
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BuBBleboy

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Stylet oil burned your roses..? Wow. Well, I'm using it at 2oz/gallon and so far they're doing fine. I'm physically limited or I'd be dunking the entire plant as well.

no, I used the 2oz rec. dose for roses on the label for my girls, and it burnt my girls. I will never own roses after I learned how much of a magnet they are for mold, I want to do a night mission next door to my neighbors and burn theirs to the grown with fungicide just thinking about them.

I'm going to try 1 oz/g on one of my flowering girls tonight, and dunk all my vegging ones. I'm gunna have to spray at least twice to cover all my flowering girls like you said (with a good double coat). I know you aren't supposed to use oil and sulfur together, but I'm wondering if I should use any other fungicides in combination with the stylet this time? I don't want to build any resistance with the stylet (if mold can do that like spidermites), and I would rather be safe than sorry. I was going to look for some oxidate, and try and find some agri-fros for a systemic feed. Any other or better ideas, through them at me guys please!

I am about thinking it is most likely septoria now, however It is still expressing a rust like fungus on most of my leaves, and almost leaves a crust like crust on the dead leaves that looks like that could be the spores themselves of what ever fungus it is. And I still haven't ruled out downey mildew completely....

so I am thinking of using something to battle them all Garden Safe brand fungicide concentrate 3, Serenade, or Safergro mildew cure... but I haven't decided on which one yet. any input, bad after tastes, that sort of stuff when using any of these from anyone's experience?
 
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