Experienced SIP Grower, so why do we worry so much with Hydro....

  • Thread starter Kinyan_ob_WakanTakan
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Kinyan_ob_WakanTakan

Kinyan_ob_WakanTakan

26
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History, I am a very experienced outdoor SIP grower, but due the constant encroachment and hyper-urbanization in my neck of the woods I am looking at going Hydro.

So..... I ended up getting an all in one "stealth" closet to just see how it goes as I'm building my new grow room for the future and I know I have too many plants in this tiny enclosure, but like I said. This is an experiment / trial run to re-learn and practice before I go all in and ill be selling this setup upon grow room completion.

My intent is to re-learn how to grow using an indoor hydro tonic setup. I know a lot of my experience transfers, ,but some are just new learnings & skills I need to develop.

Equipment:
Super Closet Supercloner Hydro 17 gal system (I have completely sealed up every non used net to ensure no light leaks into the resevoir.
Aqua 4 port air pump
4 medium air stones situated under the 4 corners
KIND Led K300 light (recommended distance is 18-24" from canopy and right now it is set to 20")
Mini fan running constantly just on the top of the canopy
Submersible water pump @185gph

Conditions:
Strains: LSD, Headband (on left) & Harlequin & 2x Northern Lights (On right)
Water - Tap with a PH of 7.1
Air temp - 74
Water temp - 69-70
RH - 52%
PH - Bluelab PH Controller set to 5.8

Nutrients:
GH Flora Nova Grow (7-4-10) - PPM 500
Hydroguard - 34ml to 17 gal reservoir

Plants were germ on 12/29 and planted into Hydro 1/5 (less the front left which is 2 weeks behind)

In the beginning I was having some leaf curling issues and slow growth and am pretty sure it was a too high PH. I ended up getting a PH controller from Blue Lab and am no longer seeing "uniform" issues so I think the PH is now stable at 5.8.

I went with the recommended guidance on Terra Nova's site and introduced nutes to a 200 +/- PPM on 1/20 and then up to 500 +/- on 1/26.

Every week I do a complete flush of all water in the reservoir and refill.
Refill steps:
- Move the lid with the plats to an additional reservoir to a PH of 5.8.
- Clean out the reservoir with warm water & soap and rinse until nothing is left.
- refill with Tap Water
- adjust PH manually to 6.5
- add in 34ml of Hydro Guard (I am including pics and my local Nutrient List was worried I was getting root rot (No smell or slime) so we started adding Hydro)
- Add 50ml of GH Flora Nova Grow to a 500 +/- PPM
- this brings the PH down to 5.6-5.9, then the machine self adjusts to 5.8

Daily run:
- Lights set to 18/6
- Maxed air pump with a medium air stone under the 4 corners of the reservoir
- Water pump runs 5min every 4 hours just to circulate water in the reservoir and keep Notes from settling on bottom (Set up for top feed, but not using it right now).
- I am entering week 6 (Week 4 of Veg) and am gonna wait another week or so for the front left plant to grow since I have some height left.


So a couple of questions that I'm wondering about / perplexing me.

1) What are the conditions to cause the brown spots on leafs? Water Temp, Disease, Nutrient +/-. P, K?
- these are only on 3 plants eat primarily at the bottom to mid plant level.

2) What is the "ideal" PPM for GH Flora Nova? Veg? Flower?

3) What should I be worrying or not worrying about?

4) One downside to this "Stealth" system is the root mass is a nightmare and gets entangled into EVERYTHING. Should I be worried?


As always, I'm open to feedback and hope you all have a great day. Remember to be nice, it only takes a second to smile!
 
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Kinyan_ob_WakanTakan

Kinyan_ob_WakanTakan

26
13
I got a PM that the brown might be root rot, but im not sure. I assumed th brown is from staining, plus im using hydro guard @ 2ml per gal.

I am also wondering when is a good time to prune the under growth in Hydro?
 
tobh

tobh

Supporter
3,813
263
roots look fine. any unpleasant smells?

the spots could be calcium deficiency as well, or VPD issues.

you can trim the undergrowth now. you want plenty of airflow on the undersides just from an IPM perspective.
 
Kinyan_ob_WakanTakan

Kinyan_ob_WakanTakan

26
13
No smell what so ever on the roots. I think im good but normally I don't stare at my roots in a SIP, LOL

What is the best way to measure Cal &/or Mag in Hydro and is there an ideal range?

VPD is interesting. Not something I normally deal with but, .........
- If I calculate my kPa it comes out to about 1.1, which is almost ideal (1.2-1.4)
- However, I did notice last night and today some "small drops" of water of a handful of leaves. At first I wondered what the heck got into my sterile environment to cause an infection, which didn't make sense so I checked to see if there was any condensation on lights or filters that would drop down and Nope.
- Now you have me really thinking if my issue isn't related to or affected by VPD.

Question:
- I am normally used to seeing my plants "sweat" at the edges and tips, especially after a large storm due to over watering, however with Hydro the roots are always in the water so...

Do I need to correct this? If so correct which input (Temp or Humidity)?

Do I need to address or correct the leafs? Or do we think it is a byproduct of the leaf cells not getting the rights nutrients due to the lack of water (due to sweating) and the plant will recover those cells so address the VPD and this will autocorrect?


Trimming:
- I was hoping someone would say that. I am going to start working on that tomorrow.
 
chemistry

chemistry

4,028
263
Root rot, you can see it on the roots and further evidence on the leaves. The reason for the root rot is to many plants close together, all plants have a minimum suggested planting distance or pot to plant size. You need to tease the roots apart and use an enzyme to clear it up, should only take a week to clear up.
 
Kinyan_ob_WakanTakan

Kinyan_ob_WakanTakan

26
13
Root rot, you can see it on the roots and further evidence on the leaves. The reason for the root rot is to many plants close together, all plants have a minimum suggested planting distance or pot to plant size. You need to tease the roots apart and use an enzyme to clear it up, should only take a week to clear up.
An enzyme such as hydro guard? So putting it in the water isn't good enough?
 
tobh

tobh

Supporter
3,813
263
No smell what so ever on the roots. I think im good but normally I don't stare at my roots in a SIP, LOL

What is the best way to measure Cal &/or Mag in Hydro and is there an ideal range?

VPD is interesting. Not something I normally deal with but, .........
- If I calculate my kPa it comes out to about 1.1, which is almost ideal (1.2-1.4)
- However, I did notice last night and today some "small drops" of water of a handful of leaves. At first I wondered what the heck got into my sterile environment to cause an infection, which didn't make sense so I checked to see if there was any condensation on lights or filters that would drop down and Nope.
- Now you have me really thinking if my issue isn't related to or affected by VPD.

Question:
- I am normally used to seeing my plants "sweat" at the edges and tips, especially after a large storm due to over watering, however with Hydro the roots are always in the water so...

Do I need to correct this? If so correct which input (Temp or Humidity)?

Do I need to address or correct the leafs? Or do we think it is a byproduct of the leaf cells not getting the rights nutrients due to the lack of water (due to sweating) and the plant will recover those cells so address the VPD and this will autocorrect?


Trimming:
- I was hoping someone would say that. I am going to start working on that tomorrow.
so i'll answer both your posts here, starting with the latest one. hydroguard is a bacterial culture, not an enzyme additive. for enzymes you use something like hygrozyme, cannazyme, z7/z9, etc. that being said, ime, running a live res is a fucking nightmare. just outright pain in the ass. that's why i run fully sterile now. 5ml/gal 34% h2o2. it's alleviated a HUGE part of issues I had in my last recirculating system.

Now, the leaf damage won't heal. those are necrotic spots and they simply won't recover. the droplets you saw are likely from the leaves laying on top of each other and dropping condensation on one another. it happens, that's why defoliation is helpful since those little microclimates the leaves will create between each other are breeding grounds for PM.

your kPa looks on point.

calmag should compose ~50ppm of your solution, so 0.1 EC roughly. in high powered lighting situations (such as with LEDs) you might need a bit more. Calcium affects so many other nutrients (look up Mulder's [sp?] Chart) and will be one of the first to present itself when shit goes sideways.

I still don't believe it's root rot though. Are the roots slimey to the touch? smell funny? not like roots smell, but like a stagnant pond.
 
Kinyan_ob_WakanTakan

Kinyan_ob_WakanTakan

26
13
so i'll answer both your posts here, starting with the latest one. hydroguard is a bacterial culture, not an enzyme additive. for enzymes you use something like hygrozyme, cannazyme, z7/z9, etc. that being said, ime, running a live res is a fucking nightmare. just outright pain in the ass. that's why i run fully sterile now. 5ml/gal 34% h2o2. it's alleviated a HUGE part of issues I had in my last recirculating system.

Now, the leaf damage won't heal. those are necrotic spots and they simply won't recover. the droplets you saw are likely from the leaves laying on top of each other and dropping condensation on one another. it happens, that's why defoliation is helpful since those little microclimates the leaves will create between each other are breeding grounds for PM.

your kPa looks on point.

calmag should compose ~50ppm of your solution, so 0.1 EC roughly. in high powered lighting situations (such as with LEDs) you might need a bit more. Calcium affects so many other nutrients (look up Mulder's [sp?] Chart) and will be one of the first to present itself when shit goes sideways.

I still don't believe it's root rot though. Are the roots slimey to the touch? smell funny? not like roots smell, but like a stagnant pond.
That's the thing is the roots are not slimy and don't stink, but they are brown and I do have some necrosis spots on leaves that I normally don't see in a SIP system unless I have a major heat spell come through.

So when you say fully sterile, are you only talking about adding H202 to the res or are you talking a fully sterile environment with hepatitis air filters and water filters? I am assuming the first since I don't see any water filters in your setups I've been watching.
 
Kinyan_ob_WakanTakan

Kinyan_ob_WakanTakan

26
13
R
so i'll answer both your posts here, starting with the latest one. hydroguard is a bacterial culture, not an enzyme additive. for enzymes you use something like hygrozyme, cannazyme, z7/z9, etc. that being said, ime, running a live res is a fucking nightmare. just outright pain in the ass. that's why i run fully sterile now. 5ml/gal 34% h2o2. it's alleviated a HUGE part of issues I had in my last recirculating system.

Now, the leaf damage won't heal. those are necrotic spots and they simply won't recover. the droplets you saw are likely from the leaves laying on top of each other and dropping condensation on one another. it happens, that's why defoliation is helpful since those little microclimates the leaves will create between each other are breeding grounds for PM.

your kPa looks on point.

calmag should compose ~50ppm of your solution, so 0.1 EC roughly. in high powered lighting situations (such as with LEDs) you might need a bit more. Calcium affects so many other nutrients (look up Mulder's [sp?] Chart) and will be one of the first to present itself when shit goes sideways.

I still don't believe it's root rot though. Are the roots slimey to the touch? smell funny? not like roots smell, but like a stagnant pond.
RE: ,y other post. I am starting to wonder if RWDC is even the way to go now. My SIP is just..... Well it works great but its outdoors and I want to move indoors. I really want a system that is "Self regulated" with minimal oversight. I thought I could get a hydro setup to do this, but with the whole water and nutrient issues it seems like that might not be the best way to go. Still unsure.
 
tobh

tobh

Supporter
3,813
263
That's the thing is the roots are not slimy and don't stink, but they are brown and I do have some necrosis spots on leaves that I normally don't see in a SIP system unless I have a major heat spell come through.

So when you say fully sterile, are you only talking about adding H202 to the res or are you talking a fully sterile environment with hepatitis air filters and water filters? I am assuming the first since I don't see any water filters in your setups I've been watching.
i have one filter that is in my res. it's an inline filter, like 150 micron or something like that. don't recall exactly. but yeah, you're correct. i don't run a clean room to grow in, my res is sterile though. since i run such a high level of h2o2 i don't have to worry about aeration or pathogens. it's a higher concentration of h2o2 than the stabilized bottles you get at the pharmacy, so if something is going to live in it, then it'll kill the plants and me happily, and i'll accept such a fate. hydroguard is just so hit and miss in my experience. plus, when it blooms, it fucks your pH seven ways from sunday.
 
Kinyan_ob_WakanTakan

Kinyan_ob_WakanTakan

26
13
i have one filter that is in my res. it's an inline filter, like 150 micron or something like that. don't recall exactly. but yeah, you're correct. i don't run a clean room to grow in, my res is sterile though. since i run such a high level of h2o2 i don't have to worry about aeration or pathogens. it's a higher concentration of h2o2 than the stabilized bottles you get at the pharmacy, so if something is going to live in it, then it'll kill the plants and me happily, and i'll accept such a fate. hydroguard is just so hit and miss in my experience. plus, when it blooms, it fucks your pH seven ways from sunday.
So then you dont run any aeration all.?

Ive seen in some of your other posts that you reference 34% h202. Is that 34% of the volume is H202 and 66% water or 34% H202 in strength? If its the former do you use RO or tap? I am hoping to stay tap since its a good quality a solid PH of 7 and just plain easier.

recommendation on the H202 in terms of purchasing?
 

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