F2 F3?

  • Thread starter DieselDuds
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,599
638
S=selfed; i.e. chemically treated to mutate, to cause sexual organs of the opposite sex to appear and results from those are used. Typically it's a female that is 'selfed', that is to say chemically treated so as to cause viable male organs and pollen to be generated. By that pollen the original female is bred. The numbers denote generations.

I am likely not using the proper terminology, the above explanation is my take on what I've read on the subject.
 
Chobble

Chobble

789
93
F1 is the initial cross of two varieties, in theory creating hybrid vigor and a wide genetic profile. These seeds would be grown out to find a particular phenotype, You can also use them in your farm. Growing 50 f1 crosses outdoor can provide an ample breeding stock for the next summer.

F2 and F3 are the same varieties back crossed, imo, its best to get seeds that have been open pollinated as they will have more genetic variety. If you are running an indoor crop though you'll want to choose an F2 or F3 variety from a reputable seed provider, do your research.

Now onto S1's

S=selfed; i.e. chemically treated to mutate, to cause sexual organs of the opposite sex to appear and results from those are used. Typically it's a female that is 'selfed', that is to say chemically treated so as to cause viable male organs and pollen to be generated. By that pollen the original female is bred. The numbers denote generations.

I am likely not using the proper terminology, the above explanation is my take on what I've read on the subject.

S1=Femenized Seed

They dont really exist, S1's and Feminized seeds only exist in the pot grower world. I was in a horticulture class and a guy asked the professor about feminized seeds, the professor laughed knowing what he was asking about and said, Well I dont know what process did they use to make them all females?


The guy replied with "I don't know"

Me being me, I said, "oh don't they use a hermaphrodites pollen with a female to produce the seeds? It creates an XXXX."

The professor then went rambling about how that's one way to do it, and how it will majorly narrow the gene pool.

So if you walked into a room full of botanists, and asked "Whats an S1" They would laugh at you. An S1 is the closest thing to a genetic copy you can get. Cali connection seeds are all S1's to my knowledge, Swerve takes the clone, hermies a branch and pollinates the room with the branch.

Grow a plant, Take a clone, Hermie the clone so it produces pollen with female haploid cells and pollinate the female with that pollen.

I hope this help explains things?
Chobble


Edit:
Also I did a quick search to make sure I wasnt being an asshole, the farm is one of the main references to S1 with icmag etc. I've seen it around all the pot grower sites but never in a text book etc. Upon further reading there is also evidence that supports what I'm saying.

Heres a post about jaws where they talk about "Creating S1's"
 
d420dool

d420dool

432
93
The goji i ran was f1 and wow that was crazy, 14 females from seed and 4 different phenos, very cool. The roarges im runnin right now r f2, i have 3 from seed and they look like clones they r so uniform, so i can say that baba g of golden lion does the f2's very well, very stable.
 
Redux

Redux

52
18
From what I understand F2 and F4 generations will show more genetic diversity and parental selection is more important in these generations when breeding to stabilize desired traits. By the time you get to an F5 it should be pretty darn stable if the breeder has remained focused. All that of course influenced by the starting parents that make the F1 beanos.
 
shemshemet

shemshemet

623
143
Shemshemet's description:

Orginal Parents - P1
Cross of genetically separate Parents - F1 Generation
Cross of F1 Plants - F2 Generation
Cross of F2 Plants - F3 Generation
etc. etc.

Now onto the less objective part of your questions. Higher gen does NOT equal better genetics. Most commercial hybrids (outside the cannaworld) are F1 hybrids. Which usually show the most vigor. Getting down to f7 is creating a stable line or population (also called an IBL, which can also be made through selfing), NOT a hybrid anymore. If bred correctly these F7 could be used as P1 parents.

Much of the canna world is focused on F2 and above plants. But I am a firm believer that correct breeding will give best results in terms of a hybrid seed stock with the F1 generation.

The reason you see so much 'more stable' F2 generations is because the breeding wasn't done correctly in the first place. And the F1 generation is not a cross made from stable parents to begin with.
 
gymshoes

gymshoes

33
18
So, the higher the F-gen the closer you are able to get to the original parent's origin as landraces?
 
shemshemet

shemshemet

623
143
Gymshoes-

Not really, but sort of. It really depends on selection for your F-gen.

One way of creating, or maybe 'simulating' a 'landrace' strain could be to cross two unrelated lines. Once you get to F-7 or higher (depending on who you ask, some say F5 some say even higher), you have created a 'family'.

Now, depending on how you select during this process, you could end up with a great line with the same type of variation as a landrace. But, you could have also selected in a way that gave you little to no variation.

More information:
Conventional vegetable breeders will create the line (aka go to F7) for their breeding stock (usually landrace/heirloom) for both parents. THEN they will cross to another line that they F7'ed and THAT is a traditional F1.
Whereas cannabis breeders often cross one plant to another, and end up with a no good F1. So they backcross, F2, or other techniques to stablize. This is where we are today, and most of it came out of necessity (access to polyhybrids only).
 
MushinNoShin

MushinNoShin

739
143
I'm sorry but your professor was wrong. Mendel self-fertilized his pea plants and that is actually one of the experiments that formed the basis of what we now know as the heredity model.

The filial generations (F1,F2, etc.) are based on the premise that the parents are true-breeding for selected traits (originally).

In "classical" Mendelian Genetics the F1 will have dominant trait expressions (assuming no incomplete dominance), again, assuming the parental stock were true-breeding for said traits. The F2 gen consists of interbred individuals from the F1 gen and is the most diverse due to the expression of recessive alleles, allowing for 3 possible phenotypic expressions. After the F2 gen, depending on what traits were selected for/individuals selected, expression becomes more restrictive with each successive generation, generally. One can usually get a true-breeding individual by F4 or F6 if they properly identify their traits.

F2 and F3 gens by definition can NOT be back-crossed. F2 can only be obtained from the interbreeding of individuals within the F1 gen and F3 only from individuals within F2 gen.

If the parental stock were homozygous dominant for selected trait(s) then you would get "stable" or true-breeding Individuals in the F1 gen.

Now, this is all more of a guideline because in reality there are codominant traits, sex-linked traits, etc. and so many other facotors at play. People are usually not using true-breeding parental stock to begin with anyways. They'll cross F2's from one line to F3's from another and call their progeny F1's. Not hating or anything, that's just what they do. I'm not going to pretend like I don't chuck pollen too, it's fun, I just don't call the progeny F1's.
 
Last edited:
geologic

geologic

Old Pharmer
Supporter
1,912
263
Hybrid???--
Lowbrid???...
 
shemshemet

shemshemet

623
143
As painful as it is, these offspring technically are F1. Filial Generation 1.

The whole polyhybrid F1 thing is more like saying you are going out for a nice beef dinner, and going to McDonalds for a hamburger. Yeah you are eating beef, but it's forsure not a filet mignon.
 
Top Bottom