Feedback on first ever grow

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Piggie

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Hey all! Brand new here, so apologies for the long post; I find that the more detailed information is provided, the easier it is to diagnose issues or address concerns.

So, this is my very first grow and I'm looking for feedback regarding how everything looks, so far.

Environment: 3x3x8 insulated grow space, currently 70° ( occasionally higher, but never above 80°) at 75% humidity (measured at the top of each seedling) during lights on. Dark period temps are 60-65°, during which I dial the humidity back to 70% to maintain VPD, which averages .62 kPa. Light is provided by a Mars Hydro FC-3000 positioned ~20" above plant tops and running at 50% giving a PPFD of 275 µMol/m2/S. The lighting schedule is 18/6, run via an AC Infinity controller 76. Air circulation/exhaust is handled by an AC Infinity Cloudline T6 with a controller 67.

Equipment: I'm currently running two 8 gallon bubble buckets, each one containing two Active Aqua medium sized air stones - connected to a 15 L/min air pump - and a submersible pond pump with air injection to move the water around and provide additional aeration. Water is currently local city tap (dechlorinated and pH adjusted) measuring at 5.7 pH, but has spiked to 7.0, most likely because of the Hydroton, despite my best efforts to clean and pH balance it before use. When changing water this coming weekend, I'll be switching to distilled water and begin small dose nutrients to better control PPM (currently ~750, as it comes from the tap). I'll be using Advanced Nutrients pH Perfect trio (grow, micro, and bloom) and have CalMag on hand, if needed - I've read conflicting accounts regarding it's need with AN, even when running in distilled/RO water, so I'll wait to see what my plants are telling me they need as they grow. I'll also be running bennies (Southern AG Garden Friendly Fungicide) to combat root rot. I will eventually upgrade my grow space with room for an external reservoir with a chiller.

Plants: Cherry Runtz photoperiod of unknown genetics (bag seeds that are confirmed photoperiod, but that's all that is known). Germinated via paper towel method on January 21 and placed in Hydroton clay pellets on January 23 with ~1" of taproot exposed from the seed. The plants broke through the surface and opened on January 25, although the seed casing got stuck on one of them, resulting in the deformation of the first set of serrated leaves (noticeable in the second picture). The taproot on each plant touched down in the water late Sunday/early Monday (January 29/30).

Pictured below are the plants as they appeared this morning, 12 days since opening up. I've been told that I should be seeing explosive growth, almost immediately following the roots touching down into the water, but they don't seem anymore active than they were previously. There is currently 3-4 inches of taproot submerged below the net pots, but don't seem to be branching out at all, although do appear to have gotten thicker. It is worth noting that the net pots are of the 8 inch variety, so there is 2.5" of stem below the Hydroton.

What's everyone's thoughts regarding the progress so far - are they right on track or is there more I could/should be doing? Insights and advice are welcome, cynicism and negativity will be ignored. Thanks everyone!

Feedback on first every grow 2
Feedback on first every grow 3
 
Gmix

Gmix

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263
I’ll take a stab & try see what happens.

No one’s replied as the plants look ok

It’s very hard to read it’s like walls of txt.

I mean no offence I never do I am not a tank talker & will walk away rather than have a internet fight it’s just not worth the time & effort.

First of all I’m a soil grower however I have a fair understanding of other grow methods. I will not tell you to do anything I’m not totally confident in advising.

You should keep the ph at the level your method uses.

Others might chime in now albeit saying negativity like you did comes of pretty aggressive.

Good luck & hopefully someone can read all you wrote & help you out.
 
P

Piggie

11
3
I’ll take a stab & try see what happens.

No one’s replied as the plants look ok

It’s very hard to read it’s like walls of txt.

I mean no offence I never do I am not a tank talker & will walk away rather than have a internet fight it’s just not worth the time & effort.

First of all I’m a soil grower however I have a fair understanding of other grow methods. I will not tell you to do anything I’m not totally confident in advising.

You should keep the ph at the level your method uses.

Others might chime in now albeit saying negativity like you did comes of pretty aggressive.

Good luck & hopefully someone can read all you wrote & help you out.
Your feedback is appreciated. I don't find it aggressive to say that I won't be engaging with negativity; not to be confused with criticism, which I am most certainly not above.

Given the infinite number of variables that come with cannabis growing, I figured it best to provide as much detail as possible to insure that informed feedback and conversation can be exchanged. If that's too much for people here to read, it would seem that this may not be the place for me.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Be well.
 
steamroller

steamroller

1,815
263
Tap water is the root of your problem IMO?
I don't do hydro either, but the pH flucuations are from your tap water.
Water with high KH levels tend to bounce back even after what would seem proper adjustment.
How did you bring your pH back down and how is it holding?
Just guessing really,I know water, not hydro.
 
P

Piggie

11
3
well written op fam! refreshing to read such posts
welcome to the farm
Thanks, growmie!

Tap water is the root of your problem IMO?
I don't do hydro either, but the pH flucuations are from your tap water.
Water with high KH levels tend to bounce back even after what would seem proper adjustment.
How did you bring your pH back down and how is it holding?
Just guessing really,I know water, not hydro.
That makes sense, now that you mention it. I was adjusting the pH down using citric acid and was having to correct it daily.

What's the ppm of the tap water itself?
It varies, but generally 725-800 ppm, as measured with a freshly calibrated Apera Instruments AI316 meter.


My buckets were due for a water change today, so I switched to distilled water and began feeding nutrients. The tap water was beginning to get slimy and it was collecting on the roots and air stones. I cleaned all equipment with hot, soapy water, rinsed thoroughly, cleaned again with 3% H2O2, rinsed with hot water, and then dried before filling with distilled water. The submersible pumps were disassembled and boiled, along with the air stones and air lines.

I was able to clean the crud off the roots by gently rinsing in the distilled water, which removed 95% of what I could see. Approximately 1" of the longest root of one plant dropped off while rinsing, I'm assuming because of damage caused by the slime. After cleaning, it was nice to find that what I thought was a thick taproot on each plant is actually a cluster of smaller roots. They are all now bright white and hanging nicely.

I've added Southern AG GFF bennies to fight the pythium. I added half the dose directly to the buckets with the other half going into a one liter bottle of distilled water; this concentrated bottle was poured over the Hydroton, soaking it entirely and pouring over the roots as it drained. It's my hope that the Hydroton will hold onto the GFF and keep the roots inoculated as it's kept moist by the aerated water. I made covers out of foil wrapped paper plates to cover the net pots, at I'm almost certain that light is getting into the water; they have a hole large enough in the center to allow to plants to get full lighting. I've also dropped my water level 1" below the bottom of the net pots.

I started feeding nutrients, but only at half the recommended dose since the plants are still young and appear to be slow starters (my fault entirely). I'm running Advanced Nutrients pH Perfect trio, which has stabilized at 5.7 pH currently and 300 ppm.

I'm hoping that they will begin to thrive now that they are in a more ideal (and hopefully, stable) environment. Temps are still dipping into the low 60s during lights off, so I may need to find a way to address that soon.

Thanks to everyone that took the time to offer assistance and insights. I'm an absolute amateur doing my best to learn, so everything helps. Y'all are appreciated!
 
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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

26,480
638
1. VPD at lights off doesnt matter and should be lower or equal to lights on. When calculating VPD only worry about lights on.

2. IMO dont add anything to ph perfect and NEVER try to adjust PH. Follow the directions to a tee. Do NOT try to run lower ppm than recommended as it need to be a certain concentration to keep the ph in range. If ph is between 4.5-7.5 using ph perfect its absolutely fine. They are designed for RO so nothing else needs added.

3. back the light up a bit more i would suggest 30-36“ to start and let the plants grow into it. Its very common for new growers to push plant to hard with light. if after they are established they handle it well you can look to increase it then. I can’t count how many stunted starts i have seen from just puahing light a bit to hard.

what are your water temps?

bump those nutrients up to the recommended dose. Forget everything you have read on nutrients… ph perfect is the exception to all the rules
 
P

Piggie

11
3
1. VPD at lights off doesnt matter and should be lower or equal to lights on. When calculating VPD only worry about lights on.

2. IMO dont add anything to ph perfect and NEVER try to adjust PH. Follow the directions to a tee. Do NOT try to run lower ppm than recommended as it need to be a certain concentration to keep the ph in range. If ph is between 4.5-7.5 using ph perfect its absolutely fine. They are designed for RO so nothing else needs added.

3. back the light up a bit more i would suggest 30-36“ to start and let the plants grow into it. Its very common for new growers to push plant to hard with light. if after they are established they handle it well you can look to increase it then. I can’t count how many stunted starts i have seen from just puahing light a bit to hard.

what are your water temps?

bump those nutrients up to the recommended dose. Forget everything you have read on nutrients… ph perfect is the exception to all the rules
Fantastic feedback and exactly what I was looking for! For my clarification, when you say to add nothing to pH Perfect line of nutes, does that include CalMag or silica, as well? The directions are very specific about the order in which the nutes must be added, so I'm concerned that adding more at this point to increase the PPM to the recommended concentration would throw everything off. Should I just wait until the next water change to switch to the greater dosage?
Water temps are mostly inline with ambient, which is generally 60°-75°. I currently do not have the space for an external reservoir and chiller - I'm counting on the bennies to help keep root rot at bay.
Lights on temps of 75-80f would be ideal if you can
I've just placed an order for a small heater and controller to get the grow space up to a more ideal temperature; it will hopefully arrive in the next couple days. Thank you for sharing your expertise!
 
Last edited:
Habosabin

Habosabin

1,198
263
Yes, that ppm was for my local county's municipal water supply. As of this morning, I've switched to distilled water, so the ppm is much lower now, compromised of only bennies and nutes.
My water was 500+ and I switched to RO. You can get a RO filter for $60 that will last you for years. You'll get like 0 to 10 ppm with on of those.
 
P

Piggie

11
3
My water was 500+ and I switched to RO. You can get a RO filter for $60 that will last you for years. You'll get like 0 to 10 ppm with on of those.
I've gone back and forth with myself on getting an RO system, but it's just really hard for me to justify the amount of waste water it generates - my property is on a septic system, so the waste isn't even recycled back into the municipal supply. I get distilled for about $1/gal and I don't mind paying that cost for the convenience; it's easier on my conscience that way too.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

26,480
638
if your using that water it will likely cause you problems and especially if you have a water softener.

imo in your case RO is a must

personally i would add nothing else to ph perfect… not cal mag, silica ir anything.
 
Harpua88

Harpua88

Supporter
2,043
263
Hey all! Brand new here, so apologies for the long post; I find that the more detailed information is provided, the easier it is to diagnose issues or address concerns.

So, this is my very first grow and I'm looking for feedback regarding how everything looks, so far.

Environment: 3x3x8 insulated grow space, currently 70° ( occasionally higher, but never above 80°) at 75% humidity (measured at the top of each seedling) during lights on. Dark period temps are 60-65°, during which I dial the humidity back to 70% to maintain VPD, which averages .62 kPa. Light is provided by a Mars Hydro FC-3000 positioned ~20" above plant tops and running at 50% giving a PPFD of 275 µMol/m2/S. The lighting schedule is 18/6, run via an AC Infinity controller 76. Air circulation/exhaust is handled by an AC Infinity Cloudline T6 with a controller 67.

Equipment: I'm currently running two 8 gallon bubble buckets, each one containing two Active Aqua medium sized air stones - connected to a 15 L/min air pump - and a submersible pond pump with air injection to move the water around and provide additional aeration. Water is currently local city tap (dechlorinated and pH adjusted) measuring at 5.7 pH, but has spiked to 7.0, most likely because of the Hydroton, despite my best efforts to clean and pH balance it before use. When changing water this coming weekend, I'll be switching to distilled water and begin small dose nutrients to better control PPM (currently ~750, as it comes from the tap). I'll be using Advanced Nutrients pH Perfect trio (grow, micro, and bloom) and have CalMag on hand, if needed - I've read conflicting accounts regarding it's need with AN, even when running in distilled/RO water, so I'll wait to see what my plants are telling me they need as they grow. I'll also be running bennies (Southern AG Garden Friendly Fungicide) to combat root rot. I will eventually upgrade my grow space with room for an external reservoir with a chiller.

Plants: Cherry Runtz photoperiod of unknown genetics (bag seeds that are confirmed photoperiod, but that's all that is known). Germinated via paper towel method on January 21 and placed in Hydroton clay pellets on January 23 with ~1" of taproot exposed from the seed. The plants broke through the surface and opened on January 25, although the seed casing got stuck on one of them, resulting in the deformation of the first set of serrated leaves (noticeable in the second picture). The taproot on each plant touched down in the water late Sunday/early Monday (January 29/30).

Pictured below are the plants as they appeared this morning, 12 days since opening up. I've been told that I should be seeing explosive growth, almost immediately following the roots touching down into the water, but they don't seem anymore active than they were previously. There is currently 3-4 inches of taproot submerged below the net pots, but don't seem to be branching out at all, although do appear to have gotten thicker. It is worth noting that the net pots are of the 8 inch variety, so there is 2.5" of stem below the Hydroton.

What's everyone's thoughts regarding the progress so far - are they right on track or is there more I could/should be doing? Insights and advice are welcome, cynicism and negativity will be ignored. Thanks everyone!

View attachment 1326206View attachment 1326208
You mean you want to give MORE information....?? ;) . Just kidding, that's very good and thorough. I like the cooler temps......do you purposely keep the humidity higher? I don't know how cold it is by you now but it's really, really cold. But often in the winter it's pretty dry inside. Other than the seeedling stage, they seem to do well with cooler/drier.

But they look good, I don't know who told you you'd see "explosive growth" from jewly planted seedlings, but they need and take time to catch on and startt taking off. One leaf set isn't enough to absorb and make the energy needed for a 2nd (then 3rd) set. In fact, at least as far as my experience, the first 14 days are painfully slow. You think you'll need 100 days before you can flower......but rhey eventually catch up and accelerate their growth. The last 10 days of growth and the first 7 days after flipping often seem more growth productive than the first 30 days.

I'd love to try thing's that will give me more growth early on. I am all ears. I like thd fungicide idea, over never used any, byt gighting root rot is good. I have a few techniques for preventing it. Your seedlings look good, you did better than I did at timing. I waited more like 72 hours to start and half of them drilled right through the paper towels........I had cut around them....it worked out alright it just so many hours.......no more paper towel for me unless it's more of a rare strain, hard to get seeeds, etc. But because your timing was better you also don't have the stretching I have with some. Yours are tighter, less stretch.....
 
P

Piggie

11
3
if your using that water it will likely cause you problems and especially if you have a water softener.

imo in your case RO is a must

personally i would add nothing else to ph perfect… not cal mag, silica ir anything.
I've switched to pure/distilled water. At this point, the only ppm is from the nutes and the bennies, so I'll just stick with that.

Where do you come down on trying to increase the nutrient concentration of the current water? Try to do it now or just wait until the next water change in 7 days to go full strength?

You mean you want to give MORE information....?? ;) . Just kidding, that's very good and thorough. I like the cooler temps......do you purposely keep the humidity higher? I don't know how cold it is by you now but it's really, really cold. But often in the winter it's pretty dry inside. Other than the seeedling stage, they seem to do well with cooler/drier.

But they look good, I don't know who told you you'd see "explosive growth" from jewly planted seedlings, but they need and take time to catch on and startt taking off. One leaf set isn't enough to absorb and make the energy needed for a 2nd (then 3rd) set. In fact, at least as far as my experience, the first 14 days are painfully slow. You think you'll need 100 days before you can flower......but rhey eventually catch up and accelerate their growth. The last 10 days of growth and the first 7 days after flipping often seem more growth productive than the first 30 days.

I'd love to try thing's that will give me more growth early on. I am all ears. I like thd fungicide idea, over never used any, byt gighting root rot is good. I have a few techniques for preventing it. Your seedlings look good, you did better than I did at timing. I waited more like 72 hours to start and half of them drilled right through the paper towels........I had cut around them....it worked out alright it just so many hours.......no more paper towel for me unless it's more of a rare strain, hard to get seeeds, etc. But because your timing was better you also don't have the stretching I have with some. Yours are tighter, less stretch.....
There is some great info in your feedback - thanks!

I manage the humidity relative to temp to maintain VPD, which generally puts it in the 70-85% range, depending on ambient grow room temp. I could certainly go lower, but I'm given to understand the seedlings generally prefer the higher humidity. Would the plants benefit from dialing it down a bit?
 
Harpua88

Harpua88

Supporter
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I've switched to pure/distilled water. At this point, the only ppm is from the nutes and the bennies, so I'll just stick with that.

Where do you come down on trying to increase the nutrient concentration of the current water? Try to do it now or just wait until the next water change in 7 days to go full strength?


There is some great info in your feedback - thanks!

I manage the humidity relative to temp to maintain VPD, which generally puts it in the 70-85% range, depending on ambient grow room temp. I could certainly go lower, but I'm given to understand the seedlings generally prefer the higher humidity. Would the plants benefit from dialing it down a bit?
I can only go by my experiences and what I've learned.......and I have a grow journal, with an enormous amount of nonsense in it... ;). But hopefully it's fun and there are some good things in there.

Yes, seedlings like humidity......on a very local level. I use little plastic domes, depending on whether you're growing in a bunch of individual cups to start, I like the clear dome lids you get when you buy a shake at whatever place has them..... if you use something else, just punch a tiny hole in the top......

What they don't like, is wet stems. I found that by slowly watering around the plastic dome, which is pretty convenient, you can get the soil moist without getting the stem wet. You might say the room humidity doesn't matter if we're using domes, but it can. Once a day you might want to quickly lift the dome and put it back down, giving the seedling a "breath" of cooler, drier air......amd you can't really do that if it's 80 and humid in the room.

There seems to be a certain time line where there "free" to be on their own without the dome. That could be 3-5 days give or take. At that point, a drier environment seems best, as long as the soil is kept moist......you can still water around the stem by blocking it off with something.......keep just the immediate stem area dry, and that means no hot/humid environment.
 
Harpua88

Harpua88

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Keep in mind, I use soil. I don't even use nutrients for probably 30 days from sprouting. So how you handle seedlings is going to be somewhat different with different mediums.....the fundamental needs/wants of sprouts-to-established seedlings might be the same, but I've never used anything but soil (plus peat, perlite, vermiculite, organics, castings....)

I'm considering trying coco, but as another addition to the mix. I'm all about variety......next up is a compost bin.
 
P

Piggie

11
3
I can only go by my experiences and what I've learned.......and I have a grow journal, with an enormous amount of nonsense in it... ;). But hopefully it's fun and there are some good things in there.

Yes, seedlings like humidity......on a very local level. I use little plastic domes, depending on whether you're growing in a bunch of individual cups to start, I like the clear dome lids you get when you buy a shake at whatever place has them..... if you use something else, just punch a tiny hole in the top......

What they don't like, is wet stems. I found that by slowly watering around the plastic dome, which is pretty convenient, you can get the soil moist without getting the stem wet. You might say the room humidity doesn't matter if we're using domes, but it can. Once a day you might want to quickly lift the dome and put it back down, giving the seedling a "breath" of cooler, drier air......amd you can't really do that if it's 80 and humid in the room.

There seems to be a certain time line where there "free" to be on their own without the dome. That could be 3-5 days give or take. At that point, a drier environment seems best, as long as the soil is kept moist......you can still water around the stem by blocking it off with something.......keep just the immediate stem area dry, and that means no hot/humid environment.
Thanks for the feedback - it is a huge help! I truly think it was my environment that was slowing them down. During lights off, temps were dipping into the low 60s, but we got hit with a significant cold front late last week and I saw temps drop as low as 57°. I ordered a small heater, as well as an Inkbird temperature controller (it has separate power outputs, which will allow it to control the heater and also the AC, when summer hits), for my grow space. As a bandaid until those arrive today, I've been running my light 24/7 to keep the space warm - it's been at 80° with humidity holding around 75%. My temp and humidity sensors are reading at plant level, about 1mm from the top set of leaves, to insure that I'm tuning the environment based upon exactly what the plants are experiencing.

It's been 48 hours since switching to distilled water, adding nutes (½ strength, as it's only been 2 weeks since they popped through the surface), and maintaining the higher temps and they seem to be quite a bit happier. I checked then this morning and, for the first time, I'm seeing noticable growth/progress. I wish I had taken some pics, but I was on a time crunch and just wanted to get a quick peek.

I'll continue to update this post as the grow moves along, but I'm certainly feeling much more confident that I'm on the right track as a first timer. The feedback and assistance offered by everyone here is exactly what I needed and is very much appreciated.

Thank you, all, for sharing your experience and expertise - it's worth it's weight in gold for clueless noobs like me. Be well!
 
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