First Grow - Nutrient Deficiency or something else?

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RhyGuy717

RhyGuy717

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Hi all,
I am a new grower and I am on my first grow of Northern Lights feminized and am having what I believe is a calcium deficiency but may be more.

1. Are you growing from seed or clones? seed
2. How old are your plants? 34 days
3. How tall are your plants? 12 -15 inches
4. What type of hydro system are you using? 5 gallon DWC buckets
5. What brand/type of nutrients are you using? Started with Fox Farm (Grow Big and Big Bloom) / Switched to Advanced Nutrients pH Perfect Micro, Grow, and Bloom
6. What is the Ph of your nutrient solution? 5.4-6.4
7. What is the PPM/EC of your tap water? 400
8. What is the PPM/EC of your nutrient solution? 1250-1300
9. What is the temperature of your nutrient solution? 64-68 degrees F
10. Does your PPM/EC show a rise or fall when you do your daily PPM check? slight fall
11. Does your pH show a rise or fall when you do your daily check? rise
12. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything? no
13. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights") (1) 1500 watt LED Cobb light, T5 for seedlings
14. How close are your lights to the plants? Visible in pictures
15. What size is your grow space in square feet? Grow Tent 108"X48"X80"
16. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space? Lights on 74-77 degrees F lights on and 69 - 71 lights off.
17. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space? no
18. How much experience do you have growing? This is my first grow.

Also,
1150 Gph air pump and circle style air diffuser (plenty of bubbles).
Multiple fans and exhaust fan, Using tap water pH'ed to 5.5 (natural pH is 8 by itself).

I have not given them full strength nutes yet either so maybe that is my problem? I am in the middle of week 3 (day 34) of veg after spending two weeks in the propagator and what started as a small problem last week got real serious by the end of the week. I started week 1 of veg with Fox Farm nutrients Grow Big and Big Bloom at half strength. Then at the end of the week 2 when the problem began I realized I used the soil version of Grow Big instead of the hydro version. So I changed out the water (4 days ago) and switched to Advanced Nutrients pH Perfect Micro, Grow, and Bloom that I also had purchased (Fox Farm's Big Bloom left sludge in the buckets), but also used half strength (38ml per gal instead of 76 ml). I also added recommended level of Cal/Mag and Hydroguard at this time. I have been trying to play it safe by using half nutes.

I currently still have what I think is a deficiency and my plants growth is slow, drooping, and there are not many roots at all for what I think there should be. First Grow - Nutrient Deficiency or something else?

My main stem on the plants also look strange, weak (1 plant cannot stand on its own and bent at some point), and look woody. My pH also keeps rising, yesterday I adjusted it to 5.4 and today it is already 6.4. Are the plants causing this? Nothing was added.

I believe I need to go full strength nutes, but should I do it now or wait two more days to be on schedule? Should I do anything else? What about the stems? Should I re-bury the plant? Any advice is much appreciated. Pics below giving a timeline and showing the issues..

Thank you all very much!

P.S. I also moved my air tubes from a hole in the top of the bucket (my first placement) to the bucket lid and covered the original hole and new hole with electrical tape because I may have had a light leak from it.
 
Day 23 from seed   middle of veg week 1jpg
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Day 30 from seed   end of veg week 2jpg
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Day 34 from seed   middle of veg week 3jpg
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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Looks like you have some stem rot. The moisture coming through the hydroton is the culprit caused by the air stones. I'm guessing no air flow over the plants. A fan gently blowing will prevent this in future grows. I also drilled a hole just under the first lip of the bucket ( if you do this ask for more info and I will show you how because you don't want light leaks)

You tap water ppm is absolutely unacceptable for use in hydro. Add to that these nutrients are specifically designed for RO .

These nutrients when used with RO water should not have anything else added or you will almost certainly have issues. DO NOT use cal mag with this line of nutrients.

You feed ppm of 1200+ is crazy high for this stage of growth. I would be at maybe 3-400ppm. You are 4 x that.

Out you ph pen and ph up/down away with this line of nutrients. Trying to adjust will cause you problems.

I can't see how close that light is by the pic but possibly to close.

I'm not sure they will make it but get a fan so you have very gentle movement across the the base of the stems. And do a complete res change add nutes to 400ppm do not ph, do not add cal mag.
 
cemchris

cemchris

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Reg grow big would have had your PH going all sorts of wack. Good thing you changed. Also shitty ratio in that with a ton of NH4. Everything else +1 to what @Aqua Man said
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Reg grow big would have had your PH going all sorts of wack. Good thing you changed. Also shitty ratio in that with a ton of NH4. Everything else +1 to what @Aqua Man said
Yeah you want to avoid ammonia in hydroponics. You need denitrifying bacteria to break it down and takes 4-6 weeks to develop naturally if you can provide the right conditions. This is a challenge that aquarium people face and many have fish that just keep dying.

Tldr: unless you have experience and knowledge with denitrifying bacteria avoid ammonia sources nitrogen in hydro
 
RhyGuy717

RhyGuy717

6
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I have 3 Vivosun oscillating fans in the space, the leaves constantly rustle gently. Another grower from Grasscity said nutrient lockout which I think is spot on now and what you said Aquaman about the PPM also! I am such a noob!

While going through the change-out I opened a second pH meter I purchased and discovered my original was off. So I went through calibrating both with new testing solution and now they are spot on. The original tester was an ENTIRE POINT OFF! So I have been adding to much pH down, making the water acidic. When it drifted to the correct pH I brought it down again thinking it was high!

I also re-tested my tap water. With nothing added my tap water is 195 PPM and 6.7 pH. I filled 3 new buckets and tested each. Each was exact. The Advanced Nutrients called for 76 ml per gal. Following your advice I added 19ml of Micro/Grow/Bloom (in that order) and 10 ml of Hydro-guard to each, mixed it all up and my PPM is now 530. Water temp is 67 degrees F. I am looking at RO systems but need to wait a bit for that.

So I just swapped the buckets and also reburied deeper/added hydro-ton to the better of the two plants since they were hanging over due to a weak,brown section on their main stem (see previous pics). They are both supported and standing better now.

However, here is a pic of the third plant. Should I do anything here or just rebury and hope it recovers? Should I try to re-root it with CloneX (treat it like a cutting) by cutting it off and cutting leaves in half and replant? Is that even possible? Or just resign my self to its loss?

Thanks again for all the help Aquaman!
 
IMG 2100
IMG 2102
IMG 2104
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Nutrient lockout is a result of what I had stated but it's not simply nutrient lockout it's the cause of it that is the concern (stem rot)

You can try to replant that stem but it's no different then starting a clone from scratch. See all those little white bumps on the base. Those are the beggining of roots. That the first indication its to humid. It's not uncommon to see but it's your first clue that you need to start paying attention to humidity/moisture levels at the base of the stem (not overall humidity of the room). To much airflow is not good either it doesn't take much to fix the issue.

Make due with tap but the ppm is still high imo so an RO unit when you can would be a good step. Especially considering these nutes are designed to be used with it.

Ppms sound reasonable but still a bit high imo. Take daily readings of the ppm before and after add backs. Record how much water the plants are taking in each day also. At this stage ppm before adding water back may rise a little like 25*50ppm depending on your system volume and nutrient uptake. If it's rising more than that you need to lower feed as the plants get bigger this will change and a larger ppm increase may be seen as the get bigger.

How to feed:
I do it differently but this method is good for begginers. Fill your res with desired nutrient levels and ph. Now when adding back mix 1/3 strength of nutrients to top up. The ppm after add back should be close to the original ppm. If it's rising you know the ppm is a bit to high if it's lower then you know the ppm is a bit to low and you can adjust the overall nutrient concentration of the system by using the add back concentration to steer the ppm. Some change is normal and your not going to get it perfect so just use it as an indication. Now after you have added back the volume of water your system contains do a complete res change and start over again. This will prevent nutrient ratios from becoming out of balance and save you a ton of headaches down the road.

Room temp probably about 80-82f humidity about 65. Watch for the spike after lights out it's important to manage it in order to prevent PM.

With plants recovering: lower the amount of light the plants are getting and increase the humidity 70-75% while they recover for a few days to a week this will ease the pressure on nutrient uptake and the root system. Much like a car you don't want to stomp on the gas when you have motor issues.


If you have any other questions I will do my best to answer them.
 
Trustfall

Trustfall

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You need to get a bottle of physan20 or bleach ASAP if you want to save that plant with crown/stem rot. I’ve dealt with this many times. Imo it might’ve too late but it’s worth a shot.
Not sure the ratio of water to bleach but physan20 is 3 ml per five gallons or water. Use it for a week.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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You need to get a bottle of physan20 or bleach ASAP if you want to save that plant with crown/stem rot. I’ve dealt with this many times. Imo it might’ve too late but it’s worth a shot.
Not sure the ratio of water to bleach but physan20 is 3 ml per five gallons or water. Use it for a week.
I always run live systems but I don't think this was caused by bacterial infection. But I can see your point in trying to prevent one.
 
RhyGuy717

RhyGuy717

6
3
I have ordered the physan 20 and will give it a shot. Thanks for the suggestion. What are your thoughts about H2O2?
 
RhyGuy717

RhyGuy717

6
3
Well, I managed to save one of the plants. The other two I think I killed myself by trying to re-bury them deeper in hydroton and I banged up the already weak roots quite a bit and they never recovered. Those were the two that couldn't stand on their own. I left the third plant alone and purchased a gallon of H2o2 (3%). Then I emptied and cleaned everything. I also switched to a kickass air diffusor , changed my bluish clear air lines to black air lines, and sat the roots in the H2o2 and trimmed some of the rotted stuff out.
I also used Grape Seed Extract for a couple of days.

I have been using half-strength nutes and the plant bounced back and has lots of new white roots! BUT, I now have another issue! I did a fresh rez on Sunday (5 days ago) with half nutes and the plant has been thriving, growing daily.

Below is a pic from yesterday, and then another pic from this morning. This bronze patch is only on this spot, but it appeared quickly! I haven't topped off the res or added anything yet. Any idea what this is??

Pic from Yesterday...circle shows the area affected...

IMG 2114b


This was taken this morning...

IMG 2121


IMG 2122
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

26,480
638
Well, I managed to save one of the plants. The other two I think I killed myself by trying to re-bury them deeper in hydroton and I banged up the already weak roots quite a bit and they never recovered. Those were the two that couldn't stand on their own. I left the third plant alone and purchased a gallon of H2o2 (3%). Then I emptied and cleaned everything. I also switched to a kickass air diffusor , changed my bluish clear air lines to black air lines, and sat the roots in the H2o2 and trimmed some of the rotted stuff out.
I also used Grape Seed Extract for a couple of days.

I have been using half-strength nutes and the plant bounced back and has lots of new white roots! BUT, I now have another issue! I did a fresh rez on Sunday (5 days ago) with half nutes and the plant has been thriving, growing daily.

Below is a pic from yesterday, and then another pic from this morning. This bronze patch is only on this spot, but it appeared quickly! I haven't topped off the res or added anything yet. Any idea what this is??

Pic from Yesterday...circle shows the area affected...

View attachment 907901

This was taken this morning...

View attachment 907906

View attachment 907907
Would say that's typical of root damage. Check roots for early signs of root rot. Glad you were able to save one. If using h2o2 I would suggest 29% food grade. Dilute it before using by at least 10 times. No more than 1ml per gal and would be a good idea to start at half that.
 

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