First RDWC Grow - Taking the Deep Water Culture Plunge

[Moe.Red]

Yea I did inside of tent. Uppermost spot. With as much lean as you have there diesnt seem like there would be a lot of air there. But you have to leave it open (the hose) because bubbles will build up in the there again if you don’t.

There should not be hardly any pressure if you want to try a tiny hole first and when it’s done venting put some tape over it. Then you can put the parts in on your next res change.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Yea, I am pretty sure there was a lot of air, the level in the res was below the halfway point of that 3" line. I don't have time today as lights are now off but what I did is re-burp the system so to speak. I put a pump down in the plant site and pumped a lot of the water over to the res side, added probably close to a gallon of water, then turned on the pump for the system and it seemed to burp as per PAH instructions. I would still like to get the water level in the res higher but for now I can't without raising the levels too high at the plant site, any tips for that? From what I can tell PAH recommends running the water quite a ways up the basket but I imagine that is not Cannabis specific and would work with other plants. You all have warned against getting the level up into the basket and that's good enough for me.....so far the success I am having speaks for itself. I had thought about loosening up those 3" bulkheads and getting a block under the plant site but I am already maxed out for headroom in the tent. Tomorrow morning I will go ahead and install that vent line just to be 100% sure all the air is out of that hump and I have as much water in the system as I can get. Thanks for the help!

 

[Moe.Red]

In my system it is the float valve that automatically replenishes RO water for evaporation that sets the water height.

I use this:

Amazon.com

With the input to my RO water tank.

If you do not have an auto top off, the water height in the plants should be virtually the same as the water in the res if there is nothing blocking return flow, like a bubble in the hump or roots clogging up the pipe. I say virtually because the pump will push water into the pot and it takes time to return to the res, so you end up with a mini tide kinda thing happening. If the pot is more than 1" higher than the res, you either have too much pump or you have a blockage in your return.

For height, I have mine adjusted 1" below the net pot bottom. This is more for the early stages to give the tiny roots plenty of air / water mixture. All the bubbles bursting at the surface give the bottom of the net pot a mist sorta like a cloner. Once you reach flower, the height is not as important as long as you have good aeration and circulation. The roots are huge at this point and well established. Level can be higher if that is better for you at this stage. Just keep in mind you want it lower than the water supply line coming into the pot.

Everybody goes thru the tweaking stage with hydro when they are starting to get the system totally dialed in. Welcome to the club.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Everybody goes thru the tweaking stage with hydro when they are starting to get the system totally dialed in. Welcome to the club.

Indeed, I WILL find my stride and thank you for all the guidance!

Honestly, I am a bit nervous about drilling into the system with a grow in progress and I really don't want to risk something going wrong at this point. I was under the impression that I needed to keep the water level lower but with that last bit of info you gave Moe, I decided to add more water (2 gallons) to the system and get that 3" line burped out the best I can without surgery. I think the water level was way too low because that 3" line was not even completely under water at the res. Best I can tell is after adding more water, I have all the air purged but still not 100% on that. The water level at the plant site is about 1 1/2" higher than the res and stays that way no matter how much total water in the system, although it seems to be lower than that 1 1/2" at the res site with less total volume of water. Makes me wonder if all the air is purged based on what you said about water levels and that they should be pretty much the same at the plant site and the res. At any rate, I am using the pump that came with the system and I believe it's a 290 GPH so I don't know it it's too much pump but that is what I am observing.

So I added about 2 full gallons of RO water and added the appropriate nutrients for that much water and added it to the system. PPM's were virtually the same before and after so I figured I had that dialed in fairly well. I did notice this morning there is a slight bit of leaf tip burn, very slight, and a tiny bit of leaf curl on a couple of fan leaves. I added back in about 100 ounces of RO water to bring that concentration down a bit to stay ahead of possible nute burn. I'm guessing that is how it's done and although I am not paying too close attention too PPM's, it does give me a relative idea of what is in the water and what I need to add back in at top off. Adding the extra 2 gallons of water brought the water level about 1" above the bottom of the net pot.

Today marks day 1 of week 4 flower and I am super stoked,,,,,AMAZED EVENNNNN.... (can you hear Snagglepuss saying that?) I have been real nervous about the stretch, which I am hoping is finally over! I can bring the light up a couple more inches but will have to make a different hanging set up to gain that last little bit if I find I need it. So far, it's real close and if they stretch any more I will have to take some sort of action. I am impressed with the strain, frosting up very nicely for so early in flower, even some of the larger fan leaves are showing some.

Anyhow, I submit to you photos of the beginning of week 4!

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Beginning (sort of) of week 5 update-

I have been watching the Ph drift downward slowly, and this morning it was at 4.5 and falling since last night and so I phoned the Advanced Nutrients hotline and the gentleman I spoke with indicated that I was most likely seeing the beginnings of root rot. The only thing I had changed is raising the water level into the net pot by about an inch. I mentioned this and he said that was probably the problem and that I needed to drop that water level at least 1/2" below. Tomorrow is the regularly scheduled res change so I decided to do it a day early because I was noticing a slight bit of abnormal leaf twisting on a handful of fan leaves.

I also phoned PA Hydroponics to see if they had any suggestions about getting more water into the system. He said that the system is not designed to operate with the water levels that low and really didn't offer any solutions. I asked him if they made the net pots in a shorter stature in that 8" diameter and he could not confirm that would be available. I am going to look around to see if I can find a shorter 8" net pot to just replace that next run. Alternately, I could order some blank lids and smaller net pots to get that bottom elevated higher in the system. The issue with that was that these lids are on back order and not sure when they will be available. Any thought on finding these shorter net pots guys?

I took a few photos of the flowers that are looking amazing, frosting up big time even on the larger fans. Super stoked and I feel like I am limping along here but hopefully I am doing better than my worried mind wants me to think I am!

 

[Moe.Red]

I moved down to 3.75" net pots. All that space just isn't really needed IMO, and I was just wasting hydroton.

I 3D printed rings that sit in the holes in the lids and in turn hold up the net pots. Lemme see if I can find a picture here at work.

 

[Moe.Red]

Something like this

I don't mind helping you out if you don't have a 3D printer.

As far as the PH going down, yeah that typically means you got some bad juju going on, but honestly you caught it fast, you will be good. You know what to do.

 

[Smokey0418]

Beginning (sort of) of week 5 update-

I have been watching the Ph drift downward slowly, and this morning it was at 4.5 and falling since last night and so I phoned the Advanced Nutrients hotline and the gentleman I spoke with indicated that I was most likely seeing the beginnings of root rot.

It could also mean you don’t have enough feed in the water.,

 

[Aqua Man]

Beginning (sort of) of week 5 update-

I have been watching the Ph drift downward slowly, and this morning it was at 4.5 and falling since last night and so I phoned the Advanced Nutrients hotline and the gentleman I spoke with indicated that I was most likely seeing the beginnings of root rot. The only thing I had changed is raising the water level into the net pot by about an inch. I mentioned this and he said that was probably the problem and that I needed to drop that water level at least 1/2" below. Tomorrow is the regularly scheduled res change so I decided to do it a day early because I was noticing a slight bit of abnormal leaf twisting on a handful of fan leaves.

I also phoned PA Hydroponics to see if they had any suggestions about getting more water into the system. He said that the system is not designed to operate with the water levels that low and really didn't offer any solutions. I asked him if they made the net pots in a shorter stature in that 8" diameter and he could not confirm that would be available. I am going to look around to see if I can find a shorter 8" net pot to just replace that next run. Alternately, I could order some blank lids and smaller net pots to get that bottom elevated higher in the system. The issue with that was that these lids are on back order and not sure when they will be available. Any thought on finding these shorter net pots guys?

I took a few photos of the flowers that are looking amazing, frosting up big time even on the larger fans. Super stoked and I feel like I am limping along here but hopefully I am doing better than my worried mind wants me to think I am!

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Pictures of the roots? Its not all that uncommon to see a change in ph droft when changing nutrient ratios.

Personally i dont think you have root rot just by seeing the plants but it could be an indicator.

 

[Moe.Red]

Pictures of the roots? Its not all that uncommon to see a change in ph droft when changing nutrient ratios.

Personally i dont think you have root rot just by seeing the plants but it could be an indicator.

Yeah I said bad juju, what exactly it is IDK. Root rot will do this, but I kinda doubt thats it too.

Could be something washed off the net pots with the higher water, including built up salts. Thing is to not overcorrect at this point.

 

[Aqua Man]

Yeah I said bad juju, what exactly it is IDK. Root rot will do this, but I kinda doubt thats it too.

Could be something washed off the net pots with the higher water, including built up salts. Thing is to not overcorrect at this point.

Yep or slightly less nitrate, more ammonium from natural root shedding. Lowered DO from more consumption etc. when its not root rot it’s likely a few contributing factors

 

[Aqua Man]

@Moe.Red we both know how much gas exchange and o2 levels can have a huge impact on this. Kinda feel like that’s contributing

 

[Moe.Red]

@Moe.Red we both know how much gas exchange and o2 levels can have a huge impact on this. Kinda feel like that’s contributing

Yeah, I wish he had some sensors installed. We would be much more helpful. Without the data, it's kinda rote memory as to what we have seen in the past and a best guess based on information told. I feel bad when I get it wrong for sure.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Yeah, I wish he had some sensors installed. We would be much more helpful. Without the data, it's kinda rote memory as to what we have seen in the past and a best guess based on information told. I feel bad when I get it wrong for sure.

Without hesitation your and AquaMan's best guess is much better than what I can come up with on my own and I am thankful you all so generously offer your help. If we get it wrong, then we will learn from that. Thanks guys.

@Moe.Red we both know how much gas exchange and o2 levels can have a huge impact on this. Kinda feel like that’s contributing

You all have this down too a science! These are areas that dwell in the realms of the Cannabis gods such as yourselves; mere mortals such as myself do well to control temp and humidity . One hurdle at a time for this old timer.

Moe, the 3D rings are awesome and I would definitely take you up on your offer to help with them. Send me a private message (or I can you) and we can work out the details, thank you so much! I had thought those baskets were rather large and the experience would surely bear that out. I'll look for and grab a couple of those 3.5" net pots and use these on the next grow.

24 hours after the res change out and everything seems to be doing ok. Ph is sitting at 5.6, and has drifted slightly downward over night where it was about 5.8 when I checked at 2 am light on, ppm about 1450 about where the AN guy said I should be.

I took a few more photos. I may be wrong but I think the twisty leaves I was noticing were just from the leaves pushing up against the walls of the tent. The slight leaf tip burn that I had noticed has not gotten any worse so I think I got that dialed in from when the nute levels were just a bit hot.

The roots to have a brownish tint to them but they have been this way the entire time, especially right after the res change. The AN guy said this is normal staining from the nutes and so far I agree with that. The lower roots tend to be more on the cream colored side except for right after the res change when they take on a bit of brown color too. There is no slime at all when I feel them with my hands.

For your consideration-

 

[Aqua Man]

Without hesitation your and AquaMan's best guess is much better than what I can come up with on my own and I am thankful you all so generously offer your help. If we get it wrong, then we will learn from that. Thanks guys.


You all have this down too a science! These are areas that dwell in the realms of the Cannabis gods such as yourselves; mere mortals such as myself do well to control temp and humidity . One hurdle at a time for this old timer.

Moe, the 3D rings are awesome and I would definitely take you up on your offer to help with them. Send me a private message (or I can you) and we can work out the details, thank you so much! I had thought those baskets were rather large and the experience would surely bear that out. I'll look for and grab a couple of those 3.5" net pots and use these on the next grow.

24 hours after the res change out and everything seems to be doing ok. Ph is sitting at 5.6, and has drifted slightly downward over night where it was about 5.8 when I checked at 2 am light on, ppm about 1450 about where the AN guy said I should be.

I took a few more photos. I may be wrong but I think the twisty leaves I was noticing were just from the leaves pushing up against the walls of the tent. The slight leaf tip burn that I had noticed has not gotten any worse so I think I got that dialed in from when the nute levels were just a bit hot.

The roots to have a brownish tint to them but they have been this way the entire time, especially right after the res change. The AN guy said this is normal staining from the nutes and so far I agree with that. The lower roots tend to be more on the cream colored side except for right after the res change when they take on a bit of brown color too. There is no slime at all when I feel them with my hands.

For your consideration-

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Yeah those roots look fine.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Yeah those roots look fine.

Yea, I'm blown away at the roots. That photo doesn't do them justice either. The backside is completely filled to the back of the bucket and I imagine they will start noticeably filling out toward the front very soon.

 

[Cashmeh]

When my ph drops after res change its generally because I added too much N. I did some studing a year ago and found that the roots can actually emit ions in response to the high nitrate levels? So i have aquarium test strips which gives me a decent ppm levels reading for Nitrate. Anytime I get over 200ppms of just Nitate, I have to add a shit ton or ph up to my res, aka calcium carbonate. Well then its hard to add mag cause i just increase my hardness which my calmag does too. So when i add too much N, i end up adding too much calcium. .res goes to shit quick and generally mag issues. Anyways. . i dunno what ratios they got you running, but you can always test the ppm levels of individual nutrients just so you have a better grasp on whats going on in ur res

 

[Aqua Man]

When my ph drops after res change its generally because I added too much N. I did some studing a year ago and found that the roots can actually emit ions in response to the high nitrate levels? So i have aquarium test strips which gives me a decent ppm levels reading for Nitrate. Anytime I get over 200ppms of just Nitate, I have to add a shit ton or ph up to my res, aka calcium carbonate. Well then its hard to add mag cause i just increase my hardness which my calmag does too. So when i add too much N, i end up adding too much calcium. .res goes to shit quick and generally mag issues. Anyways. . i dunno what ratios they got you running, but you can always test the ppm levels of individual nutrients just so you have a better grasp on whats going on in ur res

Plants release h+ ions when they up take nitrogen in the form of ammonium. The opposite is true when they take nitrogen in the form of nitrate.

So thats why you see a ph drop when you have root rot. Its the decaying roots that produce ammonia/ammonium. The greater the amounts the bigger the drop. Bit as you gain more roots natural root shedding can aslo have an effect on this.

If it’s naturally caused you can fox it by increasing the buffering capacity. O2 and other factors can also play a role in this

 

[Moe.Red]

Yeah good job not freaking out. Things happen fast with this system, one of the most important things is to make little adjustments as needed or you get into the overcorrection pendulum shit.

As far as the 3D stuff, when you have it shoot me the diameter of the hole in the lid and the diameter of the net pot you choose under the lip. The nlet me know how far I can go beyond the hole in the lid before I run into the ridge where it hinges.

 

[Moe.Red]

Yea, I'm blown away at the roots. That photo doesn't do them justice either. The backside is completely filled to the back of the bucket and I imagine they will start noticeably filling out toward the front very soon.

that's what this system does better than all the others. Massive roots that support whatever you want to do up top from bushes to trees. I sometimes get shocked back into reality when I see roots from a dirt grow - just nothing like these.