First timer here, ? Nutrient calculations

[DiverDown]

On my first crop, 6 plants doing very well, about 5 feet tall. All in grow bags except one in the ground. I do believe they are now 2 weeks in the flowering stage. No buds yet, but close.
I have been using fox farm fertilizers but am changing to Hawaiian Bud 7510. I need help fingering out the amount per gallon of water use. The list is 5-50-17. So confusing for a newbie .

 

[Jack og]

On my first crop, 6 plants doing very well, about 5 feet tall. All in grow bags except one in the ground. I do believe they are now 2 weeks in the flowering stage. No buds yet, but close.
I have been using fox farm fertilizers but am changing to Hawaiian Bud 7510. I need help fingering out the amount per gallon of water use. The list is 5-50-17. So confusing for a newbie .

Does the manufacturer provide you with proper dosing data? Without which I’d be worried as it’s a fairly potent mix. At all doubts I usually fall back to using PPM method using an EC meter. Find out what your water EC is, write that down, mix ml/ liter to water and check PPM , I’d feed at 1000ppm to start to see how the plants react. If she sucks it up, keep pushing it to about 2500Ppm and see if she burns if so cut back 750ppm from feed before:
It’s trial and error but I’d suggest you get the manufacturers data as in flower there is no going back brother if u have a mishap. It’s why it’s always recommended that you stick to a single nute program all the way through and make changes from new cuts . Plants can react badly sometimes and mess a grow all up.

 

[Jack og]

This is what google found for me:

Features & details

• Water soluble urea-free concentrate.
• Considered the world's best bloom formula in commercial agriculture.
• Can be used in both soil and foliar applications.
• 0.5 lbs dissolved in 100 gallons of water yields approx. 150 ppm of Phosphate.
• General Foliar Dosage: 1 tsp/gallon. Soil or Media Drench: 1 tbsp/gallon

Product information 3 Pound

So I would feed 1/2 table spoon per gal to start before working to a full tablespoon/gallon dose. Get a good measuring spoon, your local home goods/ grocery store will have those, it’s usually 5 grams per teaspoon in powder and 25 grams per tablespoon but that’s my guestimation, I rather get the measuring spoon mate.

 

[DiverDown]

This is what google found for me:

Features & details

• Water soluble urea-free concentrate.
• Considered the world's best bloom formula in commercial agriculture.
• Can be used in both soil and foliar applications.
• 0.5 lbs dissolved in 100 gallons of water yields approx. 150 ppm of Phosphate.
• General Foliar Dosage: 1 tsp/gallon. Soil or Media Drench: 1 tbsp/gallon

Product information 3 Pound

So I would feed 1/2 table spoon per gal to start before working to a full tablespoon/gallon dose. Get a good measuring spoon, your local home goods/ grocery store will have those, it’s usually 5 grams per teaspoon in powder and 25 grams per tablespoon but that’s my guestimation, I rather get the measuring spoon mate.

Your advise helps so much. I have been using a garden measure spoon with the fox farm. I did not want to change brands, but it was breaking my bank. I was planning on starting 1/2 Tbl. but so not sure. The girls thank you.

 

[az2000]

I have been using fox farm fertilizers but am changing to Hawaiian Bud 7510. I need help fingering out the amount per gallon of water use. The list is 5-50-17. So confusing for a newbie .

It depends on the NPK ratio you want to create. If you want to approximate what you fed with Fox Farms, you can use this spreadsheet. (<<link) There is a README which will explain it. Plug in you Fox Farm products, how much you use of each, and it will tell you the resulting NPK ratio and PPM strength. Then you can use something different (like Grow More's Hawaiian B & B), and play with the amounts to get the same NPK ratio and PPM strength.

I assume you're still going to use the Fox Farm base nutrients, and only add bloom booster to get a higher PK? I.e., you're not using Hawaiian by itself, right? That probably wouldn't turn out good. Usually when you use a booster you cut your base nutes in half and use a tiny amount. The NPK ratio would be something like 1-3-2 or 1-4-3. Hawaiian B&B is a ratio 1-10-3.2 . I've never tried to use it by itself. I don't think that would be desirable.

The safest thing is to recreate what you do with Fox Farms. Plug in what you've fed in the past, and write down the resulting NPK ratio & PPM strength. Then balance your base nutrients with Hawaiian B&B to get a similar thing. You should be very safe that way. The only complication is that you have to deal with dry nutrients as grams. You (or someone willing to help) will need to weigh a tsp of whatever Fox Farm product you used in the past. You can then extrapolate 1/2 tsp = ?grams. I have Hawaiian B&B. I can weigh that for you, if you don't have a gram scale (a resolution at least 0.01 is best.).

BTW: I use Grow More's Sea Grow and like it. It's inexpensive. My feeding schedule is in that link as well. You might get some ideas if you're looking to use more generic nutrient products, save money, etc.

 

[DiverDown]

It depends on the NPK ratio you want to create. If you want to approximate what you fed with Fox Farms, you can use this spreadsheet. (<<link) There is a README which will explain it. Plug in you Fox Farm products, how much you use of each, and it will tell you the resulting NPK ratio and PPM strength. Then you can use something different (like Grow More's Hawaiian B & B), and play with the amounts to get the same NPK ratio and PPM strength.

I assume you're still going to use the Fox Farm base nutrients, and only add bloom booster to get a higher PK? I.e., you're not using Hawaiian by itself, right? That probably wouldn't turn out good. Usually when you use a booster you cut your base nutes in half and use a tiny amount. The NPK ratio would be something like 1-3-2 or 1-4-3. Hawaiian B&B is a ratio 1-10-3.2 . I've never tried to use it by itself. I don't think that would be desirable.

The safest thing is to recreate what you do with Fox Farms. Plug in what you've fed in the past, and write down the resulting NPK ratio & PPM strength. Then balance your base nutrients with Hawaiian B&B to get a similar thing. You should be very safe that way. The only complication is that you have to deal with dry nutrients as grams. You (or someone willing to help) will need to weigh a tsp of whatever Fox Farm product you used in the past. You can then extrapolate 1/2 tsp = ?grams. I have Hawaiian B&B. I can weigh that for you, if you don't have a gram scale (a resolution at least 0.01 is best.).

BTW: I use Grow More's Sea Grow and like it. It's inexpensive. My feeding schedule is in that link as well. You might get some ideas if you're looking to use more generic nutrient products, save money, etc.

OH BOY. I knew I was going to be sorry changing from fox farm. For me it was easy with the liquid measurement and following their chart. It was very hard to pick one. Hawaiian had growers with comments that said they had very good results. I was planning on using just the Hawaiian.
I do have a scale. The chart link is very nice, thank you. I do not know if I will be able to figure this out correctly, sure am gonna try hard !!!. What a drag, I really hated having to switch. I have done so well up to this point. I had no idea this was going to be so hard!!!

 

[az2000]

OH BOY. I knew I was going to be sorry changing from fox farm. For me it was easy with the liquid measurement and following their chart. It was very hard to pick one. Hawaiian had growers with comments that said they had very good results. I was planning on using just the Hawaiian.
I do have a scale. The chart link is very nice, thank you. I do not know if I will be able to figure this out correctly, sure am gonna try hard !!!. What a drag, I really hated having to switch. I have done so well up to this point. I had no idea this was going to be so hard!!!

It doesn't have to be hard. It's just that you run some risks if you just eyeball it (making an imbalanced NPK ratio, or cooking your plants with too strong.).

You said you want to save money. This is the way to do it. If you can get in the habit of thinking in terms of NPK ratios and strengths, you can use anything to get there. That's something I don't like about the "lineups." They obscure that with 5ml of this bottle (10ml of that bottle.). What the plant sees is an NPK ratio and strength. You pay for that abstraction. You get locked into a proprietary schedule which isn't that complicated if you just do the math to figure out what's being created each week of the schedule. Once you have that, you can think of what you're feeding your plants (in the way they see it). Not the way the "lineup" maker wants you to see it.

Feel free to PM me if you need help. I think the README should explain it pretty simply. You just add your products (if they aren't in the separate "products" spreadsheet), and then use them in the "mix" worksheet, specifying how much you use of each. The sheet does all the work for you. You just have to tell it what you're using.

I did this because I was feeding GH Flora 3-part. I wanted to use something less expensive, but was unclear how other things compared (because I didn't know what the three bottles created when mixed together. Once I got my head around it, I thought it was very interesting to see what these things are doing. At that point, I can safely tweak any product to be in the same range. Using ordinary products at the hardware store or nursery.

Let me know if you need help. I can unwind the Fox Farm schedule for you. I just don't have the products added to the spreadsheet. I'd need that. If you create those product tabs and PM them to me, I could do it for you. And, those product tabs would then be available to others to use.

Sorry if I overcomplicated it for you. But, trust me, if you can get your head around, it's very liberating to think about what you're feeding your plant, and be able to do it with anything.

 

[DiverDown]

I need to be sure my NPK ratio is correct. The chart helps, but I made a huge mistake. I have been using a tablespoon instead of a teaspoon with the foxfarm products. No wonder I am going through it too fast....... it's like cooking, you have done it for so long, it's automatic. When I moved the babies outside I switched to my garden spoon and totally veged on the tsp to tbl............ so I am switching back to the fox farm. What I do not understand is that for 6 weeks I have been over feeding significantly!!!!!!! But they are beautiful. Thanks for your help, I can't believe I did this. I am so glad I found this site. Just by talking it out with you I realized my mistake.

 

[GrnMtnGrowR]

so I am switching back to the fox farm. What I do not understand is that for 6 weeks I have been over feeding significantly!!!!!!! But they are beautiful.

If you were to keep overfeeding you would eventually see something other than beautiful, but Foxfarms Grow Big and Tiger Bloom are products I have used for years and if used as directed it works very well. Keep in mind that some strains like a lot of ferts and some strains don't like much at all. I don't see anywhere here what you are using for soil and what strain/s you are growing..??

 

[az2000]

I need to be sure my NPK ratio is correct.

I'd encourage you to continue modeling what you do through that spreadsheet. Translate the different things you use (together) into NPK ratios and strengths. Examine different "schedules" for plants. (I was just looking at GH Flora 3-part's schedule. They used to be simple 3-2-1 in veg, 1-2-3 in flower. Now they have a schedule that produces absolutely *wild* NPK ratios. To me, that's interesting to see (how other products are used, what they produce.).

You talked about wanting to save money. You *definitely* can do that by knowing what NPK ratio & strength you're feeding, and recreating it with other, generic products. It's actually liberating because it's like plug-n-play. For example, I use potassium sulfate to raise K throughout the grow. But, if I need to give some magnesium, I might use langbeinite (which has K & Mg). I can use it instead of potassium sulfate.

It might sound tedious. But, it's very inexpensive. Once you learn to think in terms of what the plant sees (not the bottles you see), it's not that hard to do. You can play with increasing N, P or K and see how it affects the plant.

 

[DiverDown]

If you were to keep overfeeding you would eventually see something other than beautiful, but Foxfarms Grow Big and Tiger Bloom are products I have used for years and if used as directed it works very well. Keep in mind that some strains like a lot of ferts and some strains don't like much at all. I don't see anywhere here what you are using for soil and what strain/s you are growing..??

I am growing sour diesel. The soil is fox farm, ... the one plant in regular yard soil is doing the best! This is crazy! Being so particular with the care and lights, heat and food, to make this mistake and still look good, I do think the over feeding would eventually burn and show up when the buds got started for sure. I am going to stick with the fox farm 3 pack using the correct measurements.

 

[DiverDown]

I'd encourage you to continue modeling what you do through that spreadsheet. Translate the different things you use (together) into NPK ratios and strengths. Examine different "schedules" for plants. (I was just looking at GH Flora 3-part's schedule. They used to be simple 3-2-1 in veg, 1-2-3 in flower. Now they have a schedule that produces absolutely *wild* NPK ratios. To me, that's interesting to see (how other products are used, what they produce.).

You talked about wanting to save money. You *definitely* can do that by knowing what NPK ratio & strength you're feeding, and recreating it with other, generic products. It's actually liberating because it's like plug-n-play. For example, I use potassium sulfate to raise K throughout the grow. But, if I need to give some magnesium, I might use langbeinite (which has K & Mg). I can use it instead of potassium sulfate.

It might sound tedious. But, it's very inexpensive. Once you learn to think in terms of what the plant sees (not the bottles you see), it's not that hard to do. You can play with increasing N, P or K and see how it affects the plant.

Thank you so much. I am going to be so much more aware of what I am doing. The one plant in the ground in regular yard dirt is doing the best!!!, the others are in fox farm soil in grow bags. I am sure my mistake would show up when the buds start soon. I am sticking with the 3 fox farm products I have been using. Now I know I have been overfeeding significantly. I sure wish I had enough compost tea to use on at least one of them.
I shall work more with your charts. Thank you so much!

 

[GrnMtnGrowR]

I am growing sour diesel. The soil is fox farm, ... the one plant in regular yard soil is doing the best! This is crazy! Being so particular with the care and lights, heat and food, to make this mistake and still look good, I do think the over feeding would eventually burn and show up when the buds got started for sure. I am going to stick with the fox farm 3 pack using the correct measurements.

Foxfarm Ocean forest or Happy Frog? Both of these some nutrients in them, Ocean forest has considerably more good stuff in it.
I'm still confused as to where these 6 5' tall plants are? One is in outdoor soil, is it outdoors? And you mentioned lights...must have a tall grow area if they are 5" at start of bloom indoors..?

 

[az2000]

Thank you so much. I am going to be so much more aware of what I am doing.

If you need any help understanding it, setting up a product in it, etc., let me know. To me, thinking about these things as ratios and strength makes it easier to "read your plants." If you want to see how more N affects the plant, you can model adding a smidgen of Alaska Fish Emulsion (or a high-N bat guano, or blood meal... all cheap stuff) and then feed it to a plant. As long as you're not creating some crazy ratio (like 5-1-1) and the PPMs aren't out of range for what you normally feed with your bottles. You might have to reduce the bottle volumes 10% each to reach the same PPMs (with the extra source of N.). I think people feel like "don't change anything, you'll hurt your plants." But, as long as you experiment with small bumps to the ratio, and the PPMs don't go higher, I think it's a very safe way to experiment with things (and read your plant). You can't read a plant without doing things to see how the plant reacts.

FYI. I uploaded another document showing three common schedules used with General Hydroponics Flora Series 3-part. That's interesting to see what those bottles produce in different combinations. Those schedules go much higher in K than I do. I've heard cannabis likes x-x-1.8 throughout the grow. GH 3-part seems to consistently produce x-x-3.

I attached that to a different post (<<link). Attachements don't stand out as such. You have to mouseover the bottom to see it flash at you.

 

[DiverDown]

Foxfarm Ocean forest or Happy Frog? Both of these some nutrients in them, Ocean forest has considerably more good stuff in it.
I'm still confused as to where these 6 5' tall plants are? One is in outdoor soil, is it outdoors? And you mentioned lights...must have a tall grow area if they are 5" at start of bloom indoors..?

I started them inside in Ocean Forest. Transplanted them a few times, then outside in 10 gallon bags with ocean forest soil. June 15. Only one plant is in the ground. They are 5 feet tall now. So they have been in the bags of soil for 6 weeks. Quadrupled in size. I have been over feeding for a month, not realizing it. I now know this.

 

[az2000]

I have been over feeding for a month, not realizing it. I now know this.

Do they show symptoms of overfeeding? Or, are you going by something else? (If you have photos, I'd like to see them.).

 

[Beachwalker]

On my first crop, 6 plants doing very well, about 5 feet tall. All in grow bags except one in the ground. I do believe they are now 2 weeks in the flowering stage. No buds yet, but close.
I have been using fox farm fertilizers but am changing to Hawaiian Bud 7510. I need help fingering out the amount per gallon of water use. The list is 5-50-17. So confusing for a newbie .

Too soon to drop the nitrogen

 

[DiverDown]

Do they show symptoms of overfeeding? Or, are you going by something else? (If you have photos, I'd like to see them.).

I was talking to AquaMan about changing my nutrient brand in another question area. I could not figure out the NPK measurements. Then I realized I was using the tbl instead of the tsp. So I know they are overfed. Some leaves look like the shot in the beginning of this post. I will shoot some pics tomorrow. I was going to scroll around the site to see what people do about putting a trellis of some kind on the top for when they bud, not sure how they will hold up. But learning so much about the nutrients here. I need to back off and follow the correct instructions on the fox farm label! The only plant I have in the ground is beautiful!!!, The rest have the burn tip and yellowing, but on the bottom and deep inside.

 

[DiverDown]

Too soon to drop the nitrogen

I am just guessing here. I was told they are flowering because they went from 18 inside light hrs to 12/12 outside.

 

[GrnMtnGrowR]

I am just guessing here. I was told they are flowering because they went from 18 inside light hrs to 12/12 outside.

Here in Vermont, there are 15 hours of daylight still, but you were close. A few hours less daylight than inside would tell them it's time and they will start to change over to flowering.