First try with hydro from long time "soil" grower

[polpotoflove]

Greedings to all
After a some years of soil cultivation both outdoors and indoors I decided to try my hand with hydroponics especially after I witnesed fist hand the benefits of the method through a friend of mine, specifically size of plant vs time consumed and for that purpose I bought the Cultimate system from Terra Aquatica which I cannot really classify as deep water since the roots are not suspended in the solution but rather roam freely in the clay pebbles while moistened 24/7 through an air pressed system from the top via a hollow ring. After I started the seedling in a rockwool cube I transfered it in the bucket (the whole cube) and after a couple of days of the first true leaves apearance I started feeding with my favourite tri part system of General Hydroponics at half strength. That was 3 days ago and today I noticed two things first the seedling is somewow stretching and second the leaves seem to tell me they are missing I would say Mg. If it was soil I would say that would be a PH matter but it is not soil and my solution PH is 6ish (my electronic meter went bust on me so I do the classic measurement with the strips so I cant be total with numbers) EC is 0.79, light is 2000 lumen from a Vipar spectra 250w led at half power about 1/2m height in 18/6 program, temp is 24C at the surface 21C in the solution. I think I will put some coco soil around the stem and level the rest with pebbles so the stem will get steadier and probably sprout roots and wait to see how the second pair of leaves show before acting. Does anybody have dealt with similar problems? Any help would be quite apreciated as would be any opinions. I shall keep posting.
Thanx.

 

[Choppr]

Wow, I Haven't seen this system for many years thought it was discontinued? She looks perfectly healthy as photographed and doesn't look stretched at all? I have had seedlings not grow a 2nd set of leaves like they "self topped"... I cull them. I would not add coco to the system, wet coco around the base she may dampen off. Keep a mild fan speed on her (slight wiggle). and give her a few days.

Although it takes a lot of hydroton, Ive seen good results with this system, there was a guy years ago on a different forum that had 8 or 10 of these things going... Ive run almost every system out there, this one I haven't. Post Pics as you go, tag me. Right On!

 

[polpotoflove]

Yea sorry for that, it seems that I forgot all about my old passion of photography. Today I checked my previus grow diaries for this particular indica (in soil) and the times were a litlle off. Seems with everything else equal this grow starts a litlle slower. So I checked everything again and what do you know!!! it is a PH matter. PH has crept at over7-7.5. Naturally I took imediate measures to rectify it to 5-6 but I wonder why would it go up in just a couple of days? Hydroton was rinsed before being used so it shouldnt do that. Right? EC was up a tad too at 0.962.....What am I doing wrong here?

 

[polpotoflove]

OK day 6 and PH has gone up to 8 again. So I changed the solution instead of correcting it, with a new one after washing the bucket down with acidic solution. I noticed some brownish sediment in the bottom probably some s**t from the clay. I hope this was the problem. I also changed my PH buffer to a solid instead of liquid after reading in an unrelated forum of some guy having the same problem in a DWC grow using the same chems.
I know PH of liquids has the tendency to grow since it absorbs Hydrogen from the air but Im not really sure if it should go so fast after being treated. Lets hope solid acids work better. What do you guys use for PH treatment?

 

[DillyTrying2Learn]

I'm in a RDWC set up and I use General Hydro PH up and down.

 

[polpotoflove]

Seems I found what I did wrong. Apparently hydroton pellets need far more conditioning than I gave them. I noticed a couple of hours after PHing the solution to 6 it would jump back to 7 and in 4 hours it would go to 8. So after a some digging around I found out that in order to keep PH from rising rapidly in an aquafarm(this is how this system was called) just rinsing the pellets as the producer reccomends, or saturating them overnight as the vendor and many other farmers do, is not enough. I even found a grow diary from a guy that had to rectify his PH twice daily untill week 6 when it started stabilising.
Anyway I have the pellets in an acid bath for 24 hours now after a wash in a flush solution to break any salts. PH went straight up in 3 hours, I reduce to 5 then 6 hours after same thing again, replacing the solution after rinsing all the muck away
and going to bed. Today PH was up but not over 6 after 10 hours. I acidify the water again to abt 5 and if it keeps under 6 for 24 hours it will be my sweet spot because this is the logical intervals between checking and balancing the feeding solution. Anything less is impossible since I have to work for the living.
And all this time the litlle plant is waiting patiently in her rockwool cube suspended on welding rods over a cup of spiked water with the roots half immersed. She even had her second set of true leaves. Wish me luck

 

[Choppr]

How big is the rez, smaller volume reservoirs are harder to stabilize pH, you will need to to check and adjust, but Dont chase a single pH target, if your solution is always creeping up mix your solution lower at 5.5-5.6, "its fine for plants to uptake nutrients up and down along the pH scale as long as your in the safe range" 5.5-6.8, see nutrient availability chart. To add, late flower I would adjust in the higher ranges (6.5-6.8).

Ive never run this kind of system, although its considered a (drip)flood and drain system, its more similar to NFT (nutrient film technique). I dont fully understand what happens to pH in this kind of system? I ran flood tables for 10 years cash crops (20 gal reservoirs for each table), Ive run dwc, rdwc. Retired from the game, I just run Coco now. In the winter months I will still run simple dwc bubble buckets, and I do chase pH more, again I think its because of smaller volumes of water ie. 3 gal is about an inch below the net cups in a 5gal bucket.
maybe @Bdubs or @jadins_journey has a better understanding. good luck!

 

[polpotoflove]

Tank is 12 gal of which 5 should be used for the solution. I think you are quite right. PH is harder to manage in smaller tanks than in larger. Im not trying to get to a single PH number this is a fallacy because it even changes with temperature and outside of a lab it should be next to impossible to get a single digit. Im trying to reach a point where the change should be more manageable. And it seems Im getting there. After 24hr conditioning the hydroton seems to have stabilise whitout any significant changes in the PH so probably tonight. I'll but the plant back to her place. I can manage EC without a problem but what I dont think I can manage is temperature because temps in the summer around mare nostrum go over 35C which makes summer a no-grow season for hydro. I used to grow in a medium of my invention 70% coco 20% perlite 10% compost which I call "soil" , in grow bags with impressive results but it didnt compare to hydro grows I have seen thats why I decided to give it a shot.

I am familiar with the chart since I grow more things than cannabis, like exotic chillies in my roof and on my mothers side of the family most of my cousins are commercial farmers, but thank you all the same. So as it seems I just tackled my first hurdle(which should not have been there in the first place , had I done my researsh correctly) so Im gonna keep posting the results. Thank you for the input.

 

[jadins_journey]

How big is the rez, smaller volume reservoirs are harder to stabilize pH, you will need to to check and adjust, but Dont chase a single pH target, if your solution is always creeping up mix your solution lower at 5.5-5.6, "its fine for plants to uptake nutrients up and down along the pH scale as long as your in the safe range" 5.5-6.8, see nutrient availability chart. To add, late flower I would adjust in the higher ranges (6.5-6.8).

Ive never run this kind of system, although its considered a (drip)flood and drain system, its more similar to NFT (nutrient film technique). I dont fully understand what happens to pH in this kind of system? I ran flood tables for 10 years cash crops (20 gal reservoirs for each table), Ive run dwc, rdwc. Retired from the game, I just run Coco now. In the winter months I will still run simple dwc bubble buckets, and I do chase pH more, again I think its because of smaller volumes of water ie. 3 gal is about an inch below the net cups in a 5gal bucket.
maybe @Bdubs or @jadins_journey has a better understanding. good luck!


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welcome to the farm @polpotoflove

There's about 300 L of hydroton in my system so yeah, I have a decent understanding of how it works. a 5gl bucket with holes in the bottom (lots and lots of holes) is probably the #1 tool in my shop in regards to hydroton. Allows for a cleaner rinse. Rinsed then soaked in hydrogen peroxide for 24 hours and rinsed again. Thats for new rocks, washing used rocks requires a few other tools. There's rocks here that's been in production for 4 years.

Your running way rich on the nutrient side for this age of plant. No fertilize required until those first leaves are out then start adding. That little burnt edges pic tells me that, it's not a deficiency at this age.

Ph - gonna be tough in a small container but I don't shoot for a number, I go for a range.

Like yourself, I flower one at a time. I'm hydro but flood/drain. My plants root mass is in a 15 gallon container and each plant has a resv. holding 40 gallons. I make 30 gallon batches of nutrients for each plant to run it 10 days, dump, refill in flower. Without question, my girls will drink 2 gallons of water a day in mid flower. Technaflora nutrients, General Hydroponics for Ph adj.

Wish you the best of luck my friend, browse through the link below for the "cattle trough" maybe there's something in there you can use.

jj

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[Choppr]

Seems I found what I did wrong. Apparently hydroton pellets need far more conditioning than I gave them

ah, the missing piece to the puzzle... I assumed this was done. Its also per @jadins_journey comment! He's also the only one I know running hydroton enmasse... lol - yeah I love the "drinking from a cattle trough thread" good stuff, on a unique grow system! more than 1 way to skin a cat! (if your into cats) lol - Right On!

 

[polpotoflove]

ah, the missing piece to the puzzle... I assumed this was done. Its also per @jadins_journey comment! He's also the only one I know running hydroton enmasse... lol - yeah I love the "drinking from a cattle trough thread" good stuff, on a unique grow system! more than 1 way to skin a cat! (if your into cats) lol - Right On!

Yees I browsed all 50 pages of the thread and I have to admit I found a lot of helpful information so thumbs up to jadin. Thank you man seriusly.

 

[polpotoflove]

Your running way rich on the nutrient side for this age of plant. No fertilize required until those first leaves are out then start adding. That little burnt edges pic tells me that, it's not a deficiency at this

Yea that was a nutrient burn. I was looking at the wrong column of GH feeding chart. I am using GH fertilizers in soil for years. Father time has his ways to screw me over, cant weld properly without glasses and evidently cant read the small letters over the column that says EC 0.8-1.2.............. Anyway I found mt glasses and lowered the EC to 0.55 and everything looks ok now. PH is slowly rising through the day but now it is manageable. One thing I dont like is the way the aerated water solution drips from the ring. It makes the leaves wet and they look like they have a layer of water on them the whole time. I think I will go against the companys hydro expert who insists it should run 24/7 and put it on a timer half an houre on-one hour off and probably off for the duration of the night Temp is 21C -something less than 70F- but I will worry about that if it drops below 18(65F)

 

[DillyTrying2Learn]

Yea that was a nutrient burn. I was looking at the wrong column of GH feeding chart. I am using GH fertilizers in soil for years. Father time has his ways to screw me over, cant weld properly without glasses and evidently cant read the small letters over the column that says EC 0.8-1.2.............. Anyway I found mt glasses and lowered the EC to 0.55 and everything looks ok now. PH is slowly rising through the day but now it is manageable. One thing I dont like is the way the aerated water solution drips from the ring. It makes the leaves wet and they look like they have a layer of water on them the whole time. I think I will go against the companys hydro expert who insists it should run 24/7 and put it on a timer half an houre on-one hour off and probably off for the duration of the night Temp is 21C -something less than 70F- but I will worry about that if it drops below 18(65F)

The running 24/7 may also prevent clogging by not giving stuff in your like a chance to dry up at all or sit and build up?

 

[polpotoflove]

The running 24/7 may also prevent clogging by not giving stuff in your like a chance to dry up at all or sit and build up

Everything coming in contact with the liquid is large enough in diameter to make it difficult for salts to accumulate. And as it uses air pressure to lift the liqid from the tank and not a water pump I dont think this system has a big potential for clogging. But we'll see. At this point i dont think I should let the only leaves the plant has to drown as if we are in a rainforest.

 

[jadins_journey]

Yea that was a nutrient burn. I was looking at the wrong column of GH feeding chart. I am using GH fertilizers in soil for years. Father time has his ways to screw me over, cant weld properly without glasses and evidently cant read the small letters over the column that says EC 0.8-1.2.............. Anyway I found mt glasses and lowered the EC to 0.55 and everything looks ok now. PH is slowly rising through the day but now it is manageable. One thing I dont like is the way the aerated water solution drips from the ring. It makes the leaves wet and they look like they have a layer of water on them the whole time. I think I will go against the companys hydro expert who insists it should run 24/7 and put it on a timer half an houre on-one hour off and probably off for the duration of the night Temp is 21C -something less than 70F- but I will worry about that if it drops below 18(65F)

The plants are old enough to have roots reaching the bottom. Personally I’d turn the ring off. The negatives far outweigh any possible benefits. Someone besides their sales rep will have to convince me off any benefit of having wet leaves and rocks past the point your at now.

 

[polpotoflove]

2 weeks old now and all look normal. PH is meausured daily and adjusted to 5.5ish every 48 hours when it is clear over 7, temp is a steady 68F daytime 64 nightime. I noticed she drank 3lt of water during the week while the EC remains almost unganged when filled back. Does this means she is drinking more than eating? I mean how much of that could be lost to evaporation?

 

[polpotoflove]

The plants are old enough to have roots reaching the bottom.

Yep as you said it dear sir.

The plant grew a central root out of the inner bucket and into the feeding soloution in the outer reservoir. So the top feed ring seems rather pointless. I shall probably have to put an air stone in the rez. for more aeration and besides I dont like still water. I think I will keep the top drip system for the time being. Any suggestions muchly appreciated.

 

[amneziaHaze]

Yep as you said it dear sir.

The plant grew a central root out of the inner bucket and into the feeding soloution in the outer reservoir. So the top feed ring seems rather pointless. I shall probably have to put an air stone in the rez. for more aeration and besides I dont like still water. I think I will keep the top drip system for the time being. Any suggestions muchly appreciated.

You cant grow in still water my 2week plant would eat all the o2 in 2 days in a 10L bucket

 

[jadins_journey]

You cant grow in still water my 2week plant would eat all the o2 in 2 days in a 10L bucket

where I was heading with unplugging the sprinkler system, put an air stone on the line

 

[polpotoflove]

Ok airstone in the water bubbling continuusly. Im keeping the sprinkler ring until I have a respectable volume of roots going in the water but I have cut it shorter so that the ring is under the leaves so they dont get wet. Water volume slowly going down as does EC which to my mind means that the plant is both eating and drinking, PH rises slowly through the day in a well mannered fashion. I think I shall start blasting the light near full power any time now.

Funny you can really notice the difference in size daily now. I think were on a good road.