flushing: an urban legend or is it legit?

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CF89

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I read that flushing has been proven to be bad recently and that you dont want to stare your plants during its last few weeks.


so I didnt flush. my ash still turns a nice white/grey ash and thats on a sampler that hasnt been cured yet.

so is a flush really required?


how about a drought at the plants last few days before harvest?
 
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redshift75

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Everything in growing outside some really obviously stupid things. Like Dumping a bag of salt on your plant to help it grow.... flushing is what you do to rinse excess nutes out of the soil. its not like washing the nutes out of the soil flushes the plant. What you are doing is getting the available nutrients out so its no longer uptaking what could be "excessive nutrients" and instead is forcing the plant to use up all that stored energy. or providing it the amount it needs to grow naturally. "non excessive amounts" is how id describe it.


everyone has different preferences. its all experimental. From days of darkness to days of light. we all just experiment to see what it does and what we feel works. but to the point of flushing. Some people use so little nutes its probably only at the level of metabolic rates and not really excessive. So flushing the soil may have no impact. could create its own shock. Then you have so many things like type of soil, type of nutes. Living soil you wouldnt flush because in theory its providing an abundance of what the plant needs goal is to keep it alive not starve or kill it.

So this is one of those things that largely becomes a part of the grow style and methods you choose to use. In my opinion. There is so much more on this subject its hard to brush over in 2 paragraphs. Because is so many arguments that can be made on one side of the coin or the other depending on situations in which there is a never ending list of possible scenarios that can be at play.


yes - flushes can be required, no - flushes arent always required. Improper techniques and using products improperly can lead to severe consequences, but also can be beneficial when used appropriately and properly.

common reasons i see people flush
too many nutes given during a watering
switching from veg to flower to ensure proper nute profile(rid excess N)
almost ready to harvest ensuring excessive amounts are being consumed vs stored.
anytime during flowering feeding ends up excessive
phytotoxic concoctions (every chem mixed in 1 jug)


if a technique didnt work for at least 1 person in 1 scenario. We'd never hear about it.
 
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CF89

CF89

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awesome. thats what I wanted to hear.

for the last 15 out of my last 17 year smoking, I always figured that a flush was absolutely critical and thats what caused black burning "pipe joints" that need to be re lit every hit (havnt seen that shit bud in a long time thankfully) so I scared me that I didnt do a flush this time.... turns out that with recent technology advancements and legalization allowing studies to move further faster theye proven that flushing isnt really required and in fact starves the plant.

the way you worded it makes perfect sense now with the excessive nutrients and washing the soil not the actual plant internals.
 
Madmax

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I call it watering at the end lol..i dont get this flushing ..
 
CF89

CF89

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I call it watering at the end lol..i dont get this flushing ..


seems like a miscommunication throughout the decades or maybe im just understanding it wrong. everyone in my circle (mostly idiots and no growers) all seem to think it flushes the plant clean and is absolutely required.... good to finally talk with some actual knowledgeable, experienced, intelligent growers/people for once!!
 
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redshift75

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seems like a miscommunication throughout the decades or maybe im just understanding it wrong. everyone in my circle (mostly idiots and no growers) all seem to think it flushes the plant clean and is absolutely required.... good to finally talk with some actual knowledgeable, experienced, intelligent growers/people for once!!
in commercial farming i have to do this to my produce. With advancement we have products that have 0 day harvest intervals or 24 hour return interval(cant think of all the acronyms). but some chemicals I cant harvest within 30 days application for human safety. even then i do several sprays/washes cause residue is residue. I dont care what they say. Thats why i still have to tell everyone to wash the produce for safety, even if i wash it.

Like if i spray a pyrethrum again its like 21 days to harvest for my product. I also wash it every 5-7 days depending on rain. although some are rated for like 4 days post harvest from application. You legally have to follow the application standards of the label. Or its a crime to use it not as intended or knowingly against the label(in theory). With some fertilizers same thing. Their rating and approval stuff says basically i should apply it before i even start seed for 30 days. lots of that has to do with quality. Its hot when freshly applied. same as manure. So not necessarily what the plants will do. Again 100s of reasons for it. In those instances its not to wash it out of the soil. But to remove the residue thats on the produce itself. Any of the chemical that is absorb in lab testing when certified shows it should be removed by that day from the fruit/vegetables in the metabolic sense. Which is same theory as using the energy stored in terms of flushing the plant. No nutes to uptake, uses its own. plain water. rids itself naturally of excess.


you do want to flush in some regards. Some shitty buds are 100% IMO because of excess nutes or bad nute profiles. Id say i can tell it more on hydro grown buds than soil grown. because i believe the soil is a buffer. Even if its a non living soil. Its still a filter of sorts for the plants. Where hydro you get more flavor from all aspects. Some of the best terp, cannibinoid profile stuff side by side comes out better and more flavorful in hydro. But its a double edge sword. Can also turn out like shit when done improperly. I think people who have flowered a plant that was always hot and in excess know the flavor im talking about. Like a deep in your chest vapor.


I havent met a smoker yet who hasnt at one time gotten a bud that looks amazing, smells, amazing and smokes like crap and makes you feel largely underwhelmed to its appearance. The smoking triggers something like the entourage effect and you get half as high as you feel you should. Cant say its from flushing. But to the point those nute profiles go a long way to that proper bud. Thats why so many long time growers tell you less is more. The only excessive nutrient i can personally taste is excess K. the potash and such. I can tell from my experience because it leaves that ashy film in the smoke. where as i smoke i taste the flavor but feel ash on tip of my tongue. I have met people who claim they can tell the taste of N, etc. But I cant ever tell personally. That could honestly be all in ones mind as well. I have no hard data to say I can taste it outside the mental belief.

same thing to why that local farmers tomato and other vegetables have more flavor than the commercial grower who condition his soil, uses conditioners and largely is providing the basic nutrient profile. But no nutes that make it thrive!!! just exist. This is again just a broad generalization. As is so much details to this topic to get into. That its nearly impossible to generalize. But at the end of the day. Is a reason for everything... That each individual largely learns the benefit given enough time to gain experience. With the caveat you have to actually apply the experience you learn. You will never stop learning when it comes to gardening. What worked one time may not work the next. When i was a kid there was a farmer down the road from my grandparents. who used to be the chemical/fert guy always trying to sell people on the science and did it through proof on his fields. He used to say "farming is one step away from witchcraft, all thats missing is the eye of newt in our brews".



this is why in my opinion. even though most cannabis nute cycles are largely a joke when compared to commercial standards in terms of quantity/value. They simplify the mix and make it more diluted. Which results in a consistency that every MJ grower can experience grow after grow. Most of those people when following the directions and guidelines set out by others experience. Shouldnt deal with those conditions the topic is necessary. Outside those previously mentioned mistakes or preference we might have/make. This is why those products are so prolific and important to this industry. Consistency is key. We see people on here that havent changed or tried a new nutrient in 10 years by their admission. When you hit that mark. You dont want to change perfection.


I like to think we can attribute the need for lots of these things being 'yester-year science' because those MJ marketed products have standardized the industry to the point that we can call lots of it "standard practice". quite possibly every thing could have a standardized category where we failed, where we can improve.
 
JadedMarxist

JadedMarxist

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I'm of the mind that flushing is not needed.

The way I think of it is the "chemical" feats are the same as organic after it been broken down by bacteria.

What the plants uptake and use are the same exactly almost. The plant can't tell the difference between organic and chemical.

As said before flushing can't actually flush the plant at all. It flushes the soil. I've never smoked soil. So I don't see how excessive nutes will effect the smoke.

Plants unlike humans eat only what they need they don't eat the stuff it does not need. So how would you get an abundance of any element. Let alone able to taste any of them.

I think that curing or lack of is the actual culprit of the flushing myth.

Everyone can stop flushing and start to cure more expertly and this conversation will get forgot about.

Now I have no science to back up my theory but I don't flush no more but I do a long slow dry and cure of almost 60 days.

These are the discussion topics we need more of to debunk the old science less bro science of the 80sand 90s.

While I'm in rant mode still wtf does fertilizer company's have so many different note lines and additives? They all say it's tailored to our beloved plant and they make the best but then why have the need to have additives or second and third lines of nutes always making the same claims. How can you have the best line but then keep making additives? I find it hard to trust a company making claims of being tailored to mj but then have 100 different versions of the same shit.

AN is the perfect example 10 versions of everyproduct they make they can't all be the best! Which in turn means none are the best.
 
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redshift75

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we live in an era where new growers now run to fox farms and products of that sort. Not miracle gro. So again i say that consistency has lead to alot of the need to go away.
An actual scientific study sez it's a waste of time:

https://www.rxgreentechnologies.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/FlushingTimes_TrialReport.pdf

but then, why believe science when the "Internet" is filled with flushers.
I think the first line in the introduction says it all " Taste and combustion qualities of Cannabis are dependent on the chemical characteristics of the flower. These chemical characteristics can be influenced by management practices during the growing cycle. " I dont think its so much "can" as "are" if i had to put it at a 51/49 split its favored in the "are".

Thats what i was trying to express is the key to everyone. its how you use the nutes in the growing cycle that have the biggest impact. In my opinion. I think all the words i said was trying to express this one phrasing. proper usage and management practices of everything.


I think most interesting is the profiles of nutrients were lowest without a flush. The whole topic can be chalked up to how people say along the lines of "everything is an experiment from when to harvest, how to dry, cure". We understand the baseline for optimal. From there.... Everything can have different flavor profiles and effects(even if all in ones head). Then is the part in the study how the longest flushed gave more extract, but was not the most desirable finished product by appearance. What one person desires will differ from the next. Not to say no effect will happen. But it breaks down to personal preference. The power of the mind is, if you believe there is an effect. It can have an effect. Look at some holistic medicine people that take placebo effects of 'fake pills' from the clinical studies for depression. Because the control group given the non pharma drug had the same level of improvement. Was it the drug or the effect of the mind believing they had the drug? If you want to sell a product you will believe the side that benefits you the most. In that case - sugar pills cure depression. ***not knocking it, just some of the scam products that exist. Dont take it as me knocking holistic medicine as we discuss MMJ. I just dont like products that prey on vulnerable people and twist science.

Thats a really interesting study. Right around where id imagine it to be in a truly controlled study and as proof to the discussion. Ithink thats the hardest stigma for growers to break. or our biggest character flaw 😂 😂 😂 😂 😇 Is understanding some things fall more into the category they are preference. While you can quantify a small variation at the scientific. Level its not enough to say "OMG GUYS WHY IS IT YOU ARE NOT DOING IT THE 1337 WAY"! Which there are no shortage of elites in the cannabis community. But thats human nature... Proof to that is how much we base purely on observational science at the consumer level. historically has been passed off as the second coming of cannabis and fell flat after several years with no one coming close to recreating it(in some cases)... I think genetically speaking its hard to say what one plant will do from the next. Like salt and pepper. You may like it, i may not. Either way its preference that will break down to each cut of meat and the individual consuming it.




edit: the word i was looking for this entire time was pseudo-science.
I only use flushing in the sense of excess salt build up. Real thing in any type of growing when using salt based fertilizers. nutrients are gone, salt remains. The presence of the salt creates an osmotic imbalance in which water flows from regions of higher relative water concentration in the plant tissue to regions of lower relative water concentration where the fertilizers themselves are located. This is the only context for me in which flushing truly exists. because i use salt based fertilizers for the most part. Requiring proper watering and management techniques.
 
JadedMarxist

JadedMarxist

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That's a good way to phrase it I agree that proper usr of ferts is key.

I also agree that most of the tech is personal preference or the intended results. I also use chemical ferts along side organic. I have yet to do a side by side comparison as it's my first foray into organic growing, so I will hopefully have a better understanding of the end result differences come mid October.

I think there is a high chance that I can't notice the difference between the organic blueberry or the hydroponic blueberry with out the visual cues.

I've always thought of organic growing to be dirty and too much work. Plus as stated earlier each plant being the sane strain from seed much like humans will require a similar but different nute profile and with organics and the lack of any real control it seems to me it's a lot more work for way less reward as you can only generalize the soil and not feed individually without years of growing the same strain.

Like I said it's just my own theorys and theory without any real world results yet for myself.
 
growsince79

growsince79

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Im all for flushing at the end. Not 2 weeks though. 4-7days. tops 2-3 weeks before harvest they need lots of nutes to fatten up. 4 days before harvest they already stopped growing.
 
JadedMarxist

JadedMarxist

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I find it interesting the divide in belief over flushing.

I still think curing is what makes the end result better and should be the main focus at harvest time not flushing imo
 
Mikelej14

Mikelej14

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My first two grows I tried one with flush one without and didn't really notice any major differences. I fed to end first grow then 2nd grow I starved them out a bit to see the difference, and I think if anything it only hurt yield. I don't plan on doing any extended flushing beyond what's needed for soil pH and maybe a good rinse thru prior to harvest.
Along the same lines, I wonder about the idea of some darkness prior to harvest, I have also not noticed a difference really between plants I pull straight from tent to cut or those I've given a day or two darkness.
I agree the major factor in the clean burning product is more in the dry and cure, chlorophyll gets removed thru this process, leaving a smoother smoke... At least that's my understanding
 
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