Future of the Seed Bizz

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7rayos

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If I'd have to resume in a few lines how the seed market is today, i'd say there's a preference for regular seeds,
-that feminized aren't gaining many supporters, as well as autoflowering aren't raising much expectations,
-that we're witnessing the first fusions, (more than just collaborations) between breeders,
-that perception in the cost of seeds is altering,
-that potency is loosing much of its appeal when choosing a seed, giving the attention to other traits, such colors, given that few breeders (none that i know, to be more exact) produce low potency strains.
All in all, a growing market with increasing knowledgeable growers (which increasingly act as amateur breeders too). More and more good things coming out. Looking for the variety in phenos rather than stability. Raising of the post-harvest hash making, therefore raising interest in strains that fit that purpose, and so on. I know this is old news for many, but i'm talking about the wider picture.
Now, my main question is: Where do you see the seed market in FIVE years from now? Also, what would be people's approach to buying seeds as to what to get from them (i.e, mainly for breeding purposes)? Will we see auctions available only (pricewise) to companies? Will it be regulated by an official body by then? Will the laws regarding cannabis have a significant change by then or more of the same?
Visionaries and fortune tellers also welcome.
 
7

7rayos

280
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Thanx Ripz for answering. Judging for the other answers, it seems either a bleak future, a secret future or else just a "don't want to know" future. :icon_dizzy:
The question comes as more and more people are getting into the basics for breeding and i find it just normal that the more you know about it, the more you get out of a seed. Given that any single seed could be almost enough to start the marijuana world all over again (just add massive knowledge), i just wondered if we're witnessing a change into the whole attitude.
Easier to see the evolution in Spain, where the patterns are quickly changing from just waiting for "luck in a pack" to more adventurous seekers of different phenos still sharing the forums unaware of each other. I for one have a lot of theory waiting to be put into practise just after joining this particular one.
Stability no more the main reason, making bx a bit reserved for phenos of the best strains. I guess it'll just make for a wider market, but given the timespan of my question, 5 years, and the current american govt. approach and the regular "coincidence" of other govts to follow suit, somehow i think "legal cuts" will take over seeds in the mainstream market, pricing up original seeds but reducing the offer.
Although it doesn't take a fortune teller to guess that eventually it'll be all really well rolled and packed up before putting anything up for sale, but i sincerely hope that takes far longer than 5 years.
Thanks for the input.
 
H

herby

Guest
Sad to say but I see little changing in the next 5 years. The seed business will still be a seedy business so to speak. Not much new will happen in the US in terms of new laws or decriminalization. Obamas messages for hope and change will turn out to be nothing more than people hoping for change with no real direction. Unfortunately the real power in the US lies within the corporartions and until they decide that they want to make a gazillion dollars off the MJ business, it will remain illegal. Theres far more money to be made in arresting people, defending people and incarcerating people than in selling weed. Far more stay employed by this system as well. Its a sad state of affairs but thats the way it is. (Have a look at the new stimulus package, an extra 4 billion in there for the DEA. Hmm yea some change. )

Because of this breeding will stay small and prices for seeds will stay high. The days of growing in greenhouses for selection from 1000 plants or more are gone for the most part. I would love to see that change and see breeders like Mr Nice doing some real work again.

All that being said theres still some good quality that comes on the market from the smaller breeders or closet breeders as I like to think of them. When you come across the right pheno's its a great thing to make some seed and get it to market. The right people doing this will consistantly produce some good results and the great thing about it is we can all do it on a small scale. Who knows what will turn up next as the next great elite cut or strain.
 
S

Slick

75
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Interesting topic guys, so I thought I would I would join ya. hehe

The seed market is like any other market as far as I can tell from my very limited knowledge of it, in short it all comes down to supply and demand. Hopefully in 5 years if it were to be legal the supply will have naturally increased due to the ability of breeders to act freely and openly, the demand if it ever is made legal is unlikely to increase by anywhere near the same amount (if at all); those factors can only result in a drop in price.

I expect though at the same time some seeds from alot of breeders will become dramatically more expensive as a more clearly defined connousieurs market will be established with a hugely different supply to that of mass produced strains. The only legal markets I can think of to compare it to would be things like wine or cigars.

If it remains illegal though I don't expect much will have changed and breeders, seed buyers and smokers alike will still have to restrict thier behaviour in one way or another. :(
 
B

British_Hempire

Guest
I don't have a clue where we will be in 5 years, but I have strong concerns that the current 'get rich quick' style of seed production is going to have a disastrous effect on the available genes. If i had my way I would ban feminised seeds, they are a timebomb waiting to go off. Seems to me that a load of people have jumped on the feminised bandwagon as it circumvents any need for any actual breeding knowledge or skill - any fool can spray a female with chemicals so it produces male flowers, this isn't breeding, using the pollen thus produced on another female clone also isn't breeding, it's simple hacking and is done with the simple motivation of extracting large wads of cash from naive growers.

Look how many actual breeders there are - Reeferman, Sam Skunkman, Shantibaba, then how many get rich quick feminised hacks there are.

There are a few guys lke DJ Short, Gerrit of Magus, dubi of Ace, Charlie Garcia of Cannabiogen and a small number of others who are doing good work with proper methods, but sadly, the demand for feminised seeds has driven Gerrit and Charlie to offer feminised seeds.

We, the growers, are largely to blame, we jump all over anything with the names Kush, Dawg, Diesel or Haze tacked onto it, such seeds sell themselves, especially if feminised while we ignore anything new and potentially great. The sales of feminised seeds made using elite cuts with big names far exceeds those of well-bred lines using landraces and heirloom cultivars by several factors of magnitude. Sad situation and we will only have ourselves to blame in a few years when no-one is bothering to make new lines anymore because they can't sell them, then all we will be left with is feminising cuts already in circulation and unworked landraces that are no use to the indoor grower.

It wouldn't be so galling if at least a portion of the profits made by selling feminised beans was used to finance proper breeding operations but it doesn't, it goes into people's wallets. There is no cheaper or easier way to produce seeds than be feminising a well-known cut yet the prices for feminised seeds are often extortionate. As an example, Soma charges 200 euros for 10 feminised beans, that is daylight robbery, and he's far from being the only one scalping people.
 
U

ukcheesehead

Guest
well said bh

i noticed earlier on some greenhouse advertising that they claim to produce seeds for 4 other major seedmakers any idea who these are so i dont buy any? ;)

big budda fems is 1.

great post BH .
so true ..theres too meny seed makers now trying to make a fast $$$ selling over priced seeds and not alot of real breeding going on . i would be happy paying $150 plus on good stable seeds but most of the seed makers are banging out untested for stupid money .and dont start me on the fem seeds lol .
 
B

British_Hempire

Guest
I think it's more a case that there are four other companies who buy beans from the same suppliers as GHS. I know there are guys churning out feminised beans in Spain and they have produced feminised supposed Cheese and Trainwreck, I expect GHS buys those lines from Spain, I know there are at least 4 other companies who definitely do buy seeds from these guys.

GHS spend huge sums on marketing and advertising, I think their approach is basically that the seeds themselves don't really matter as long as the advertising and marketing is top notch. Most GHS customers are newbies so Arjan and Franco can ignore complaints by using the old caveat of grower error due to inexperience.

You can get a few thousand seeds from a single plant, the actual cost of producing seeds when you haven't selected the seeds yourself is miniscule. For example, a certain breeder sells a strain that is composed of an elite cut from America crossed to a breeding male that's been doing the rounds in Holland for years, they put zero work into developing this strain, all they did was cross two readily available plants. The seeds thus produced should be very cheap, maybe 20 dollars a pack maximum, but no, they are over a hundred dollars. This is wrong and we shouldn't support such breeders. The only justification for charging high prices for seeds is to finance a breeding operation and as we all know, proper breeding is an expensive process as you have to grow out large numbers of plants to indentify individuals with potential for breeding with, then those individuals must be tested in a number of ways, then crosses made with them and the progeny test grown. It takes years and costs a fortune, so breeders who do this type of work are entitled to charge a higher rate for their seeds, those who just hack together a couple of plants someone else gave them or they bought aren't breeders and their seeds should be very cheap, but they aren't, so where does the money go if they aren't investing it in breeding operations? Of course, the seed vendors (they don't deserve the title breeder) don't want people to know they don't do any breeding, they cultivate certain public images to disguise the fact they are sham acts. Some pretend to be hardcore and from the hood, another pretends to be a wizzened old hippie dripping with knowledge and karma, still another would have you believe he spends all his time hanging out with major celebrities and is a major celebrity himself. It's all bollocks dreamt up to hoodwink us into buying their overpriced seeds.
 
Z

Zoolander

Premium Member
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I can tell ya right now that I'm no breeder and trying to keep these Elite clones around and paying the electric bill while popping seeds to look for males and then flowering out these females and tossing what's not good and then collecting pollen and needing seperate room to do all of this is a nightmare and I can see why no one wants to do this . I'm spending so much extra time now that I know it would be easier to just make femms or do a open pollination using 1 male on many plants . If you want to take the fun out of your growing try doing this for awhile , it sucks a bit.
 
B

British_Hempire

Guest
Nah, to me that's what makes growing even more fun - starting lots of plants from seed and exploring the variation and finding the best males and females for further work.
 
J

John Ditchweed

289
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I agree with BH it is fun popping seeds and looking for greatness.......... elite cuts are nice but at the same time alot of them lack vigor and yeilds and the ones that yeild lake potentcy............. the ones that turn purple taste great and lack in other departments........... we should be using the good traits from these strains and working with other lines to improve on the things they are lacking instead of just smashing two things together because of statis and selling the beans............. in the long run this will weaken genes and we will lose some of the traits that we hold dearly............. I praise anyone that puts time into breeding................ unfortantly the market doesn't want that they want the hottest new over hyped strain
 
Greyskull

Greyskull

484
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If you want to take the fun out of your growing try doing this for awhile , it sucks a bit.


the more I thikn about seed making and the trait selection and stabiliztion, fuck that shot can take time. no wonder folks say it can take years/lifetimes to fine tune a project. sounds very intriging to me....
 
Z

Zoolander

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Don't get me wrong BH I love poppin seeds and I'm sure you know this since I've posted seed grows for a long time but I make all this happen in a lot less space then most people so I'm working real hard to make it happen and it would be alot easier for me to just run the Elite clones . I feel like seeds are like going on treasure hunt .
 
B

British_Hempire

Guest
I've never had much interest in elite clones, largely because everyone has different tastes and the elites I have experienced have, by and large, not been to my tastes. Many of them I think are way overrated and have only gotten so big in terms of hype because many people don't grow from seed very often and when they do, the seeds produce not very good plants in the main. The answer to this is two-fold, firstly people need to stop being so lazy and secondly, the quality of seeds needs to improve.
 
Z

Zoolander

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Thank God I have alot of old seed stock from the past
 
B

British_Hempire

Guest
Oh there are still loads of good seedlines left on sale, just not from the big companies.
 
Z

Zoolander

Premium Member
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Are you saying I shouldn't use the Greenhouse Chesse to breed with LOL:scared0016::character0110:
 
K

Karma Genetics

740
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dutch seeds that are from before 1998 is gooooooood stuff. Zoo i think when you plant some old packs you will be suprised how big the difrence is to today's. Grow some old sensi stock ore some new he he he................
 
B

BuddKlott

50
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interesting topic - as a complete newbie, who started with cuttings and wants to grow from seed for his next crop who/what should I be looking for from the vendor/seed supplier?
and when you get four different companies all selling the same name strains (e.g cheeses',hazes,diesels etc..- at largley differing prices) does this mean that they just went down to their cashncarry/seedbank and bought job lots, relabel them as their own and charge what they like but calling it their own?

godamm this hobby was never meant to be this over complicated!!!! :scared0016:
 

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