Garden...not happy anymore. What's happening?

  • Thread starter BowHunterSimon
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
T

TryingToGrow

Supporter
322
63
This is where alkalinity and fertilizers used come into play.

Here's a little bit more of the conversation if you're interested, useful stuff if you're growing in ProMix:

"___ think of PRO-MIX as a filter. It can filter out elements from the water, but it cannot filter out pH. As elements, such as bicarbonates, nitrates and other elements accumulate in the growing medium, they start to change the pH of the growing medium. The buffering capacity of PRO-MIX does not change overtime, but the exchange sites can be loaded with new elements that can change the pH of the product. Again the exchange sites (or cation exchange) is much lower by volume compared to soil, so the pH of PRO-MIX can be changed within a few weeks after planting. I would not look at the buffering capacity of the PRO-MIX to be significant.

The fertilizer used has to have a neutral effect on the pH of the growing medium. In commercial horticulture this would mean that the potential acidity or potential basicity of the fertilizer should be near zero. If it is much above this value, then it will cause the pH to change. For example, if the fertilizer has a potential basicity above 50 lbs calcium carbonate equivalent , the pH of the PRO-MIX will go up over time. If the fertilizer has a potential acidity higher than 100 lbs calcium carbonate equivalent, then the pH will decline over time."

I personally have always only had success watering cannabis with 5.7 pH. R/O, rainwater or tap, doesn’t matter, if I don’t pH my water my medium’s pH starts to mess around, soil, organic soil, coco, anything else I grow in.

also, I doubt most people growing cannabis, do or want to filter their water.

here is Bruce Bugbee, he uses a peat based medium with dolomite lime
EED2AB88 E1CE 4870 B0BF FF42C9127E55


for me, when I see a corporation say something, I usually believe the opposite is true, or at least, worth looking into.
 
T

TryingToGrow

Supporter
322
63
Here you go. Saying Epsom salts in medium doesn’t effect pH. They also say the same for gypsum. I use both Epsom and gypsum to lower my medium’s pH regularly


I’d stay away from them for learning stuff
 
jguit

jguit

Supporter
905
143
I’d stay away from them for learning stuff
Never had an issue following their advice in the years i've used ProMix and have had MANY successful grows. Misleading their customers is HIGHLY doubtful..

"In conclusion, Epsom salt has little influence on the pH of growing media. It is simply applied as a fertilizer supplement to provide additional magnesium and sulfate missing from the water and fertilizer."

"In conclusion, gypsum, under most circumstances, has little influence on the pH of growing media. If there is a need to increase the pH of a growing medium prior to planting, incorporate limestone, which contains the carbonate ion that actually causes the pH of growing media to rise."

I don't think you'll find many people arguing with their conclusions. Advising people to use mag sulfate or gypsum to alter the pH of their growing medium is dubious at best.
 
Last edited:
jguit

jguit

Supporter
905
143
also, I doubt most people growing cannabis, do or want to filter their water.
LOL.. I doubt anyone WANTS to filter their water but it's reality for some of us blessed with shitty water.

Dr Bugbee also founded Apogee Instruments.. Should we now question his advice as well?
 
Last edited:
T

TryingToGrow

Supporter
322
63
LOL.. I doubt anyone WANTS to filter their water but it's reality for some of us blessed with shitty water.

Dr Bugbee also founded Apogee Instruments.. Should we now question his advice as well?
I have shit water but I’m not about to send a few gallons down the drain (anymore), to get a gallon of less shit water. People do drink it still I think lol and the plants are okay so long as I pH it, hard to call anything organic using it though which is pretty sad.

and I would say yes, just look at his stance on organics. I only think he is good for pH and ec numbers, few other basic things, I don’t need a meter to tell me if my room is dark. Lol
 
T

TryingToGrow

Supporter
322
63
Never had an issue following their advice in the years i've used ProMix and have had MANY successful grows. Misleading their customers is HIGHLY doubtful..

"In conclusion, Epsom salt has little influence on the pH of growing media. It is simply applied as a fertilizer supplement to provide additional magnesium and sulfate missing from the water and fertilizer."

"In conclusion, gypsum, under most circumstances, has little influence on the pH of growing media. If there is a need to increase the pH of a growing medium prior to planting, incorporate limestone, which contains the carbonate ion that actually causes the pH of growing media to rise."

I don't think you'll find many people arguing with their conclusions. Advising people to use mag sulfate or gypsum to alter the pH of their growing medium is dubious at best.
I like how they talk about gypsum as if it’s a pH up. It is a great pH down has nickel in it which I hear is also good and usually lacking but should look into more. Cheap, organic

Epsom is a fantastic pH down depending on what it is and where it comes from, I’m not sure I looked into it a little but decided I’m going to make my own pH down now anyways.

I won’t argue their conclusions, I know they are lies or ~word salad at best.

They destroy swamps to obtain a growing medium to sell. Not good. Not necessary
 
GNick55

GNick55

Staff
Supporter
10,756
438
i grow with pro mix hp with botanicare liquid nutes and never ph, ppm, ec anything, no clue what it is, no clue what’s in my tap water,
never water to run off..
never a problem…
just saying..
if synthetic nutrients are used than you have to ph etc..
 
visajoe1

visajoe1

807
143
This is how they are looking today. I removed all dead foliage and watered them yesterday with a full strength solution of FloraGro Series, with a touch of Pi Nutrients Super Root.
I lightly foliar fed them this morning with a mist, in the hopes they absorb some nutes this way before the watering nutes get carried up into the plant.
Still not very happy looking plants.


View attachment 1201478
Maybe its just me, but I notice some improvement from the first set of pics. Definitely not deteriorating further. Hang in there

How is things going today?
 
BowHunterSimon

BowHunterSimon

58
18
Did another slurry test yesterday, grabing medium from middle of pot gently. Distilled 7.0 ph water (tested to make sure) and ended up with a ph of 6.5 in the slurry test after about 30mins.
Received 3021149504881971



Plants still no major improvement. Humidity kept nice and steady now 35-50%, no major difference besides not a totally dry plant. Plant leaves still yellowing and burning tips every day gradually. Not sure what's happening. Did feed full strength nutes 2 days ago, also foliar feed lightly every day.

Received 346927600604596

Received 440733034389696
Received 447198017111456
 
BowHunterSimon

BowHunterSimon

58
18
Definitely looks like an improvement. How does the new growth look? Keep in mind the damaged leaves are never going to look good again.
New growth? It doesn't appear there is any still. I removed all yellowing leaves before i feed it full nutes, and now more leaves are turning yellow and still burning tips. The plant is still basically consuming itself from the edges of the leaves inward.

Received 296061209231492
Received 456891195808370


I have read somewhere to water as if it's rain water, i believe rain water does have a ph of 5.8... if they don't improve soon, i might gradually start dropping ph again.
 
BowHunterSimon

BowHunterSimon

58
18
Appears they have been on a stand still with growing in weeks, the plant is eating itself, while not absorbing any nutes I have fed it in the past.

Maybe because of how long they strived in such low humidity (20%), it might take a while for them to pick themselves back up?
Not even the one I have transplanted into a new medium before I made this forum thread has picked itself up yet.
Low Ph was my concern mainly, but they still haven't improved since I raised my Ph, so they would've had 3 weeks now to pick up.
 
jguit

jguit

Supporter
905
143
20% is really low RH. The lowest i've ever grown is in the upper 30s. Do you have any way to get your RH even more? Did you get it above 33%?
 
BowHunterSimon

BowHunterSimon

58
18
Yes the day I realized how low my RH was (beginning of this thread) I went and got 2 humidifiers, only put one into the tent and now RH has been consistently 35-50%, just have to fill it 2x a day and I been good.
Definitely the plants look alot less dry and unhealthy than a few days ago, foliage wise anyways, but still not absorbing nutrients right as i have seen no change in growth or lessening in yellowing/ burnt tips.
 
BowHunterSimon

BowHunterSimon

58
18
i grow with pro mix hp with botanicare liquid nutes and never ph, ppm, ec anything, no clue what it is, no clue what’s in my tap water,
never water to run off..
never a problem…
just saying..
if synthetic nutrients are used than you have to ph etc..
The kind or pro version of botaniocare?

Advanced nutrients has a line where no ph'ing is needed... never tried it, but definitely open in trying a new line of nutes.
 
jguit

jguit

Supporter
905
143
How about the media itself? are they drinking ANY water? They do look like they perked up a bit. What EC did you feed them last?

Are your containers on a cold floor?
 
BowHunterSimon

BowHunterSimon

58
18
How about the media itself? are they drinking ANY water? They do look like they perked up a bit. What EC did you feed them last?
Maybe a tiny bit eh, just comparing the pictures myself. Still no new growth really tho and still leaf yellowing, but they do look a bit perkier.

Full strength ended up 1.75 EC, gave them that last 2 days ago. Appears the pots are a bit lighter most definitely, still not absorbing as much as a healthy plant tho, hence why I spray them lightly with foliar feed on the side 1x a day
 
BowHunterSimon

BowHunterSimon

58
18
It might just be that they were basically in RH shock im really suspecting now. Surprised they are still alive really lol.

They did start off all nice tho, but pictures show they had a proper RH then too... they look nothing like the larger plant in this pic tho, even tho same grow medium, same feed schedules depending on stage, and same ph adjustments

20211112 123347
 
GNick55

GNick55

Staff
Supporter
10,756
438
It might just be that they were basically in RH shock im really suspecting now. Surprised they are still alive really lol.

They did start off all nice tho, but pictures show they had a proper RH then too... they look nothing like the larger plant in this pic tho, even tho same grow medium, same feed schedules depending on stage, and same ph adjustments

View attachment 1202155
is that the distance the light has been the whole time?
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom