Germinating In Buildasoil's Mix

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Minitiger

Minitiger

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Has anybody planted seeds directly into their mix? It's essentially lumperdawgz mix, with a little added biochar and a 1:1 ratio of ewc and fish compost for the humus part of the base. But basically the same mix lumperdawgz has suggested. Equal parts humus, peat moss and pumice and then a few amendments (oyster flour, kelp meal, neem, gypsum etc etc, I'm sure you guys are familiar with the mix haha).

Anyway, the reason I'm asking is because I'm testing it outdoors while I set up my room and honestly, I'm not impressed. I mixed up a big batch of The Rev's soil mix months ago, let it sit for about six weeks and then germed a few freebie seeds I got with my orders from cannazon and they fucking THRIVED. Just planted the seeds directly in the revs mix (equal parts coco, fox farm, perlite and ewc, along with a shit ton of amendments that are kind of redundant), put the pots outdoors and, like I said, they blew the fuck up. I had no intention of flowering the "tester" plants out, I just wanted to see how they did in the particular soil mix I mixed up.

After reading a bunch of people talking shit about the rev's mix and reading a ton of good things about BAS's mix, I ordered a cubic foot of buildasoil's mix to check it out. And I have to reiterate that I agree with the criticisms of the rev's mix, there are a bunch of amendments in it that are totally redundant. So, being the dickhead that I am, I dumped all of the rev's mix out in my front yard as a top dress for my succulents and other plants and mixed up a huge batch of BAS's mix. The idea being that I'd use BAS's mix to start my seeds while the batch I made myself fermented. I figured I'd veg my seedlings for a few weeks in the BAS mix and then up-pot into my mix.

Anyway, I've tried to sprout three seeds in the BAS mix and nothing's happened. The first seed broke ground after four or five days, grew one set of leaves and then just stopped. I let it go for eight or nine days and it literally did nothing. And this was outdoors in SoCal, full sun for ten hours or so and it just would not grow. Planted another freebie seed, different strain, and it never popped, even after seven days. Two days ago, I said,"Fuck it," and threw in a Prayer Tower seed (which is one of the strains that I actually paid for). I was thinking maybe it was just the crappy freebie seeds, so we'll see if this one does anything.

So, yeah, this is just a long-winded way of me asking what the deal is with BAS's and, by extension, lumperdawgz soil mix. I realize that most people soak seeds then germ in paper towels and then plant them in whatever medium they wanna grow in, but that makes no sense to me. Seeds drop from plants, germ and then grow in full-on sun. There's no reason to use a "starter soil" and veg under fluorescents and whatever all else. Intuitively, I know this, plus I vegged some pretty big plants grown from seeds sown directly in a soil that was way heavy in amendments and in full sun from the day they broke ground.

I have tons of respect for lumperdawgz and buildasoil, love what they're doing and I know their hearts are in the right place. So if anybody has any idea what I'm doing wrong or what the issue might be, please let me know. My room's ready to go (finally!), but I don't want to waste the seeds I actually paid for (lots of Bodhi strains!). Anybody have any ideas?

Thank you thank you.
 
Minitiger

Minitiger

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I should mention, too, that the minute the first plant in the BAS mix broke ground, I watered it (lightly) with a little OG Biowar, which I'm sure you all know is the shiiiiiiiiiiiit. Used it on the first few tester plants, the ones grown in the Rev's mix, and it was obvious how beneficial them Cap's Bennies are. Which is why it's all the more perplexing why the plant in the BAS mix just stopped growing.

Figured I'd throw that in.
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

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ok, first things first. Coot's mix vs The Rev's mix = winning. I have used the rev mix and it is a great mix. The ph comes out very high, in the 7+ range. The elements are totally loaded up, especially with N. That is why your plants did well, but if you had flowered them, you would see where the rev mix breaks down compared to Coots mix. Like I said, both very good soil mixes.



Here is coots soil mix: My name and lab sample number are cut off, everything important remains.


Img003

With any organics, you have to charge your soil with ACT's before your plants will really take off. Here is a nice write up off the build-a-soil website regarding gardening with coots mix. Hope this helps.



The Complete System
Introduction
Continuous Credit to Clackamascoots, Gascanastan and all the others before me.

The reason we put this system together is for those that want to have a birds eye view of the entire process from start to finish. Many people want to grow naturally and just don't trust that it will work. Some are doing it now but they are missing some key element and it's not coming out quite right. Once you get the full picture and understand how flexible this whole system is you will "get it" and create your own system that works for you and your situation.

The ultimate goal is to use nothing but home made compost that has been created with all of the nutrients built in. If you can get to the point where your soil is so alive and healthy that all you have to do is plant a seed and add water, then you have arrived. Having the best soil doesn't have to take forever and in the mean time there are many Compost teas, Botanical Teas and fertilizer inputs that you can add to Build a soil for long term production.

The modern way is to use chemistry to make NPK and several micro-nutrients available to the plants through use of plant ready water soluble nutrients. The PH of the nutrient supply will heavily effect the outcome of the plant. This is the "Feeding the plant" Paradigm.

The organic way is to build a compost based on the plants that are high in nutrient content and to utilize organic amendments that work in harmony with the plant and the soil. The BuildASoil way is to combine premium compost materials with diverse mineral inputs and utilize biology along with science. We are constantly getting our soils tested and adjusting so you don't have to. We want diversity and we want it all in the soil. The nutrients aren't immediately available in the organic system, we will rely on the biology of the soil to naturally produce nutrients for our plants based on it's growing needs. The soil food web is the cornerstone to cultivating plants in a Living Organic Soil System. The soil life is active and healthy and helping to make these nutrients available, and the plants growing on this Living Organic Soil have free-choice of any nutrient they want, in balance, a balance designed by intelligent science and observation. But it doesn't come in a bottle. The other nice thing about Building A Soil for All Natural production indoors, is that you have a blank canvas to work with... you can literally build the best soil possible. While working on large outdoor farms, you have to work with the existing soil and improve it over time.

NPKBigToss_medium.jpg


The System


This guide is for Vegetables and Medicinal Herbs but will work with most fast Annual flowering plants. If you have a strange plant that you want to grow, consider it's native soil and best recreate that. This information works absolutely perfect for food and medicinal herbs. The entire system is meant to be more sustainable and also use local resources when possible.

This information is mainly for growing in containers and raised beds for the home gardener. If using containers for the patio, the greenhouse, or indoors, use as much soil as you can afford. I prefer a minimum of 5-30 gallons of soil per plant if growing in containers. Tomato's love the half whiskey barrel size, but bigger wouldn't be an issue except for moving it around. The larger the soil volume in your container the easier it will be to keep moist and keep alive with many different microbes and critters. The smaller the container the more botanical teas and compost teas you will end up using along with a little more attention to detail.



Rule #1: Don't try to grow a plant, instead BuildASoil that does that for you: Use Premium inputs and get premium results. Your goal is to build the best soil possible and keep it like a pet. Keep it moist and alive as best as you can, input more than you take out and the soil will last forever as it continues to evolve and become more blessed with life.

Rule #2: Learn to make your own compost and your own Earthworm Castings: You would be surprised how small of a space you can make quality compost in. Search our website for "indoor compost" and you will see what I mean. But if you really can't do the whole compost or worm bin thing, then I suggest you learn to find a really good source for local compost that is affordable. If you can't find compost local then use our pure worm castings. The shipping keeps the price a little high, but my goal is to make this as affordable as possible for everyone to benefit from.

Rule#3: Use premium quality compost or earthworm castings, preferably home made. Yes I said this twice. It's that important.

Rule #4: Don't be tempted to go back to the bottled nutrients: Even if they say organic, because nothing will be as good as you own soil. The big bottled nutrient companies buy ingredients in bulk and often use soy and cotton that are GMO and full of pesticides. Get this right and your garden will be more productive and more nutritious than ever before. Don't worry about growing plants, focus on building soil!

Rule #5: Avoid ingredients that say they are organic but really aren't good for the environment. The Organic Label is slowly selling out in the marketplace depending on who is doing the certification. Don't worry if it's not organic as long as you know where it came from and that it is good stuff. Think about each ingredient in the products you purchase. Just because the nutrients at the grow shop have cool labels and high prices does not mean that they will grow better plants.

Rule #6: No matter what else you do, make sure you MULCH. If you skip Mulching you are missing the boat.



Integrated Pest Management: Use a basic home made pest spray every 3-7 days during vegetative growth phase for pest prevention.

Seedling or Cuttings:



I always prefer to start seeds in the most amount of soil possible, so if you are starting a small garden and can afford to mix up 1/2 gallon of soil per seed or cutting you will be very well off, but start with whatever you can. I prefer to avoid stressing the seedlings with multiple transplants. So if you can sow the seeds directly into their final home that will be ideal, weather or garden space permitting.

Choose the bests organic seeds possible. Do NOT sprout them in a paper towel.


Mix 60% Sphagnum Peat Moss and 40% Earthworm Castings together. Then add a small amount of oyster flour or gypsum at 2-4 cups per cubic foot (2-4 Tablespoon per gallon) and let the mix sit for at least two weeks before using. If you would feel more comfortable you can also add some aeration like buckwheat hulls, perlite, vermiculite or anything lightweight. (If you add buckwheat hulls for aeration let this mix sit for a couple of weeks before planting in it) Once your soil is moist and ready for the seeds, plant them according to the package. Most seeds you can just push barely into the moist soil and cover lightly. Keep the top of the soil moist while you wait for them to sprout. I suggest using a sprayer as opposed to heavy splashes of water that will dislodge your seeds. Anyways, once you have your cloning and seedling soil all mixed up you will want to store it in a Rubbermaid tub, trashcan or whatever is most convenient for you for future use.

If you would like extremely detailed information on starting plants from seed or cutting, check out our blog articles!



Vegetative Phase:
If your soil is older and full of life you can most likely just use good clean water all the way through from start to finish. But when you are first mixing up a fresh soil it is helpful to boost the soil life by using Compost Tea's. When your soil needs a nutrient kick you can also try Botanical Tea's and other DIY nutrient solutions. To learn More about Compost Tea and Botanical Tea's, Read Below in the details.
Week 1: Use the Aloe and or Coconut Solution to water once.
Week 2: Straight water
Week 3-5: Water or Botanical Tea depending on how the plants look. If they aren't dark green and healthy, you may want to use a tea.
Week 6-8: Transplant to garden or final container and use a BuildAFlower top dress kit with a compost tea or Kelp Meal Tea.



Flowering Phase:
Focus on minimizing stress to your plants. Pay attention to the increased use of water at this point and make sure to do a good pest spray right before this point.
Week 1-2: After the Flowering Top Dress, Water only or Basic Botanical Teas
Week 3-4: Start using SST tea's at this point if you haven't done so already. (SST = Sprouted Seed Tea)
Weeks 4-8: SST, Aloe Vera Juice, Coconut water or just straight water. Don't overdo it, but don't be scared to spoil your plants. No more botanical tea's will be necessary from here on out unless you know that this variety has a long season and will require an extra boost.


Here is a basic breakdown to help you with the above schedule.


DIY Rooting solution or Cloning Gel: Aloe Vera and Coconut water
Recipe: 1/4 cup preservative free coconut water and 1/4 cup preservative free Aloe Vera Juice into 1 gallon clean water. Soak your stubborn seeds in this or use to soak your cuttings in before planting. Or like me, just water your seedling/cloning soil with it prior to planting.

Take a fresh tip of aloe vera and rub it on your plant stems before you plant them into the cloning soil below. Or Ideally, blend up the fresh aloe filet and mix with water and soak your cuttings in a cup of this mixture before planting. Say a 1" chunk for a tall glass of water? Not need to be exact, they Aloe leaf is very high in a compound called salicylic acid and is the key component for cloning purposes. Another way to do this is to purchase aloe vera juice at the health food store at about 1/4 cup per gallon. ($25-$30) Heck you could even buy pure 200x concentrate organic aloe vera powder and use to make fresh aloe vera juice on demand. No matter how you slice it, if you have heard of willow root or asprin or cloning gel to stimulate rooting then why not use the best plant of them all, the Aloe Vera Plant? It really works and you will be very happy because there are many other benefits. Check out the detailed blog article on Aloe Here.

The next thing you want is a young coconut or a simple can of coconut water from the health food store. OR they have pure Coconut water powder you can get too, just don't use the stuff with preservatives in it. Coconut water is a superfood and is excellent for seed starting and cloning, see the full blog article over here.



Cloning and Seedling Soil Mix:
Mix 60% Sphagnum Peat Moss and 40% Earthworm Castings together. If you would feel more comfortable you can also add some aeration like buckwheat hulls, perlite, vermiculite or anything lightweight. The aeration is not necessary however because the young seedlings, or clones will absolutely love the 60/40 mix. You could even grow plants to fruition in a 60/40 mix like this. Anyways, once you have your cloning and seedling soil all mixed up you will want to store it in a Rubbermaid tub, trashcan or whatever is most convenient for you. I always prefer to start seeds in the most amount of soil possible, so if you are starting a small garden and can afford to mix up 1/2 gallon of soil per seed or cutting you will be very well off, but start with whatever you can. I prefer to avoid stressing the seedlings with multiple transplants So if you can sow the seeds directly into their final home that will be ideal, weather or garden space permitting.



Complete Premium Soil Mix: (Try to find local compost or worm castings if possible)
Don't be afraid to mess with the base a little bit depending on the size of your container and how much water you want the mix to hold. If you can't get to the plants to water as often as you would like, add a little more topsoil but be aware of this so that you do not over water.

15% Vermicomposthttp://buildasoil.com/products/pure-worm-castings

15% Compost

30 - 40% Sphagnum Peat Moss or Homemade Leafmold

20 - 30% Small Lava Rock, Perlite, Buckwheat hulls, rice hulls etc. something for aeration

5 -15% Topsoil (You can skip this if you are unsure of the quality of your topsoil)

1 Nutrient Kit or your own custom blend of nutrient amendments. Just make sure you have the necessary minerals that will help create nutrient dense plants.

Don't worry about being exact, just get a good mix together and lightly moisten it all and add your soil amendments and then let sit for 2-4 weeks before planting into it. You can mix it up on a tarp and then wrap it up in the tarp until it's ready or you can scoop it all into a trashcan or just simply into a huge pile in the garden. With all these premium ingredients it would be bests to keep this soil mixed up and covered. This will allow it to heat up and breakdown any of the ingredients that require more composting before you plant into it.



Compost Tea:
Use this if your plants aren't taking to the new soil well, or if the new seedlings aren't growing as fast as you think they should be. Compost tea will help kick start the nutrient cycling that occurs when soil micro-life breakdown the organic soil amendments into available plant nutrients the plants can uptake.

Often times when you see a plant that is yellowing or has strange growth it is because of a nutrient deficiency. Adding more fertilizer is NOT the problem when you Build A Soil properly. The nutrients are Absolutely in the soil, and this cuts all the guessing out. If you use a compost tea in this situation you will more than likely see all of the plants start miraculously growing healthy again within 48 hours. The great thing is you won't need to spend any time diagnosing for plant health issues because it's all in the SOIL baby!

Here is the basic Compost Tea Recipe you should always be using. Unless you have expensive microscopes and a complete understanding of the process's involved it will be best to stick with this recipe.

You will Need a compost tea brewer, if you don't have one, then check out the DIY Tutorial instructions here or email me and I'll help you build a cheap one that will work alright to start.

(If you don't have the resources to build a proper brewer, don't try and half ass it.... just make Earthworm Casting Slurry Instead and feed that to your plants.)

Recipe:

4 Gallons of water in 5 gallon brewer will allow for foaming

1.5 cups of Earthworm castings or high quality compost screened so as not to clog the compost tea brewer.

1/3 Cup Non Sulfured Molasses

Brew for 24 - 30 Hours at between 60 and 80 degrees F for optimal results. If colder brew for 30-34 hours if warmer brew for 20-30 hours.

Notice: Without a microscope and Dissolved Oxygen Meter we really don't know what is going on in the Compost Tea. I would recommend using EWC Slurry if you don't want to worry about all of this. To make a slurry use 10-20% vermicompost to clean water and brew for 24 hours.



Botanical Teas and Fermented Plant Extracts:
If you want a detailed report on how to make your own fermented plant extracts and botanical tea's then Fill out your name and email below and I'll send you the report instantly. I just setup the auto email and once you put your name into the form below you will receive a free copy of our E-Book "Homemade Plant Fertilizers"

Email Address
First Name



After you fill out the form above you are going to receive a cool E-book that I wrote on how to make your own fertilizers at home.... This E-Book uses a Lactobacillus Serum to help Ferment some of the materials.... If you are interested in that weird stuff, Then Checkout our Video Blog Post on LactoB.

Spouted Seed Tea: (SST)
Seeds have all the enzymes ready to create life and we can harness this with sprouts. Think of this as a do it yourself enzyme tea that costs pennies.

This super seed tea will change your game completely and is worth the extra time it takes. Use this weekly or at least once per month especially towards the finish of your plants.

Ingredients: 2 ounces of Organic Barley Seeds, Corn Seeds, Legumes, really anything but it works best with barley because barley is cheap and also high in nutrients.

I use a seed sprouter but you could easily use a jar. Take your 2 ounces of seeds and soak them for 8-12 hours or so and then rinse well. This is key, because you will be rinsing off a compound that inhibits growth on the surface of the seeds and we don't want this in our finished product.

Once the seeds are soaked and rinsed you can leave them kinda moist in the bottom of the jar and let the sprout over 2-3 days. Once the tails are as long as the seed itself you can then fill the jar with water and let it sit for 3 days or you can blend up the seeds and mix with 5 gallons of water to use immediately.



Top Dressing:
In nature things fall to the forest floor and slowly decompose into a rich top layer of compost and humus. This process can be utilized in your garden as well with amazing results. You can take a small amount of the amendment you want to add and sprinkle it on top and then cover it up with compost or worm castings. For instance, chopped up comfrey and some kelp meal top dressed with a layer of worm castings. That would be an incredible nutrient kick for any plant! Check out our Top Dress Kits over here.



Mulch:
Use Dead mulch like wood chips, straw or anything you have to keep the top layer of soil moist, this will add a huge benefit to your plants, will also minimize the water input needed and weeds will struggle to grow. You can also plant a cover crop like clover to act as a sort of living mulch. Read all about mulching over here.



Watering Practices:

When you start adding organic material to your garden soil and begin using compost and mulch you will use MUCH less water because of the water holding capacity and efficient use by the soil itself. That being said, watering is important and you should follow some basics for best results.

1. Water before sunrise or in the early morning. Indoors this means before the lights come on, or just after. This will allow the plants to have moisture for the hot day. Watering at night can cause issues based on your environment and should be avoided unless they have to have the water.

2. Water with Clean water. Use rain water or use tap water that has sat out for a day or two. Filter your water, just do something to have the best water you can afford to use for the garden.

3. Water at a temperature that isn't extreme. Don't use ice cold water or hot water if at all possible.

4. Make sure you have proper drainage and water till just a little barely comes out the bottom of your container or until the garden is properly moist but not flooded.

5. Don't aim for wet and dry cycles. Aim for Consistency of time of watering and also for a good moisture level in the soil. Keeping the soil moist will keep all the soil microbes alive and well. Drying out the soil will kill much of the soil life.
 
Minitiger

Minitiger

1,441
263
I think @Bulldog11 is using the BAS mix. I took a look at it, I can't rationalize spending that much money on a single cubic yard of soil.

Yeah, it was pretty expensive, especially the shipping. But, like I said, the plan was to start the seeds in that mix while my mix "cooked" and then use my mix (which is basically the same exact mix as BAS's) when I transplanted into larger pots. Also, re: how expensive it is: at this point, after all the money I've wasted on unnecessary shit, I figured, you know, what's another $70 or whatever haha.
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

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263
Where do you live? Near BAS I take it. However if in Cali, Rare Earth in Grass Valley also makes coots mix.

It's hard to understand why one would buy such expensive soil. However, its even harder for me to understand why somebody would settle for sup par soil. The most important thing you can do all year is build your soil. Most quality soil mixes cost 100$ or more. Coots mix is 330$ a yard in Cali.

Three times the cost will not get you three times the yield. It will not get you three times the quality, and it won't ensure a healthy crop with 100% certainty. However, the quality of my bud that came out of my coots mix is second to none. I hope to prove this in the upcoming light dep competition, I will be entering my GSC. I have never had a better product, and all I did was add ACT's and top dress at crucial points of plant development. It's easy to grow pot that is in the 90th percentile, however it takes a perfect grow, with perfect soil and perfect genetics to reach the 95th percentile. Coots mix will help you get there, but so much more is involved.
 
Minitiger

Minitiger

1,441
263
I should note: Look how coots starts his seeds.....60% peat, 40% EWC. Then once established into the soil.

Thanks for the info. I've actually read all of that before, probably three or four times to be honest, although I guess I'd forgotten about that 60/40 peat/EWC seedling mix. I did add an ACT (one of coots' recipes) to the batch of soil that I mixed up and was planning on adding another one a day or two before I actually used my mix, but didn't do that with BAS's because I didn't think I'd need to. The tea seemed to work well because I watered the last "tester plant" I had growing in the backyard with it and it just took off. That was the last plant I had in the Rev's mix.

Anyway.... Shit, man, I dunno. At this point, my own mix is ready. And the Prayer Tower seed I planted in BAS's mix still hasn't sprouted. I'm doing something wrong, obviously, but I don't know what. I'm misting it with RO water when it looks like it needs it (morning and night, pretty much), the soil hasn't dried out and I'm pretty sure I'm not over-watering it. Like I said, I dunno what I'm doing wrong or what the deal is. Very frustrating. But thanks for your response anyway. I'll figure this shit out eventually. Hopefully haha.
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

2,709
263
Here is my own personal advice on popping seeds. Less is more. 60% peat and 40% ewc and they sprout with near 100% rates for me. Been doing this for almost two decades. It works. No need for tea yet, because the EWC provides a biological boost. Keep fungus gnats away also.
 
Minitiger

Minitiger

1,441
263
Here is my own personal advice on popping seeds. Less is more. 60% peat and 40% ewc and they sprout with near 100% rates for me. Been doing this for almost two decades. It works. No need for tea yet, because the EWC provides a biological boost. Keep fungus gnats away also.

So do you think I should not add the gypsum or oyster flour to the seedling mix? Just 60/40 peat/ewc? That'd be preferable. I really don't want to wait another two weeks haha. Re: the fungus gnats: that was the first thing I noticed about coots' mix. I haven't seen a single fungus gnat while my mix has been fermenting and I've definitely been keeping it moist enough. When I mixed up a batch of the Rev's, that shit just got INFESTED with them. I think you may have actually responded to a query I had about that. Or maybe I just saw some of your responses in a fungus gnat thread. In any event, yeah, not a single gnat so far.
 
S

slap14

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I emailed BAS multiple times the called and left messages 4 times and never got a response once from them. Really wanted to try some of the products. Can't in good concence use someone that can't take the time to answer a couple questions.
Never have had a problem with the Rev's ROLS mix, but always open to try something new.
 
Minitiger

Minitiger

1,441
263
I emailed BAS multiple times the called and left messages 4 times and never got a response once from them. Really wanted to try some of the products. Can't in good concence use someone that can't take the time to answer a couple questions.
Never have had a problem with the Rev's ROLS mix, but always open to try something new.

Really? They've been pretty good about getting back to me. Of course, I've only contacted them twice to ask them something. And I've bought a shit-ton of things from them. I'm sure they're more prone to respond to customers. I think they're good guys, though, I wouldn't write them off just yet.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
However, its even harder for me to understand why somebody would settle for sup par soil. The most important thing you can do all year is build your soil.
Three words for me--Return On Investment. I'm not here to make BAS or Coot rich.
So do you think I should not add the gypsum or oyster flour to the seedling mix? Just 60/40 peat/ewc? That'd be preferable. I really don't want to wait another two weeks haha. Re: the fungus gnats: that was the first thing I noticed about coots' mix. I haven't seen a single fungus gnat while my mix has been fermenting and I've definitely been keeping it moist enough. When I mixed up a batch of the Rev's, that shit just got INFESTED with them. I think you may have actually responded to a query I had about that. Or maybe I just saw some of your responses in a fungus gnat thread. In any event, yeah, not a single gnat so far.
Just a note, gypsum (CaSO4) and oyster shell, while both providing Ca, do so in very different ways. Gypsum is soluble in water and won't affect water or soil pH, and provides S. Oyster shell is CaCO3 and can only offer Ca (and of course C, but we're not usually lacking for C) and buffers pH up pretty hard.

The fungus gnat thing definitely has my attention, but I find myself wondering what the real functional differences between the mixes are in that regard.
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

2,709
263
I would argue your return on investment is most important in your soil. The single best thing one can do all year is build their soil. What soil do you recommend then Seamaiden? Got some soil tests?

Quality soil does many things. It defends against mold, mildew, bugs and infections. It delivers the nutrients to the plant. It give a home for the roots. Quality soil will hold more water, and the CEC value will allow more nutrients to be held in the soil.

If your soil isn't quality, then you will have mold, mildew, bug and infections. You will have trouble delivering nutrients in the proper ratios to the plant, and your roots wont be happy and expand. You will waste water and your nutrients will run right out of your soil.

If you build your soil right, you shouldn't even have to feed your plants all season. Lots of money saved.

I would argue that coots and BAS are here to make our gardens better, and get compensated for their costs. I can tell you first hand, coots soil is the best soil I have ever used, period. The proof will be in the pudding, when I enter my final product into the golden tarp awards. Never used better soil in my life, and the finished product is better than 99% of indoor I have ever seen. The fact that Michael Astrea the author of the book The Ideal Soil, and coots got together and created an ideal soil is priceless for the cannabis community, IMO.
 
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Minitiger

Minitiger

1,441
263
Three words for me--Return On Investment. I'm not here to make BAS or Coot rich.

Just a note, gypsum (CaSO4) and oyster shell, while both providing Ca, do so in very different ways. Gypsum is soluble in water and won't affect water or soil pH, and provides S. Oyster shell is CaCO3 and can only offer Ca (and of course C, but we're not usually lacking for C) and
Three words for me--Return On Investment. I'm not here to make BAS or Coot rich.

Just a note, gypsum (CaSO4) and oyster shell, while both providing Ca, do so in very different ways. Gypsum is soluble in water and won't affect water or soil pH, and provides S. Oyster shell is CaCO3 and can only offer Ca (and of course C, but we're not usually lacking for C) and buffers pH up pretty hard.

The fungus gnat thing definitely has my attention, but I find myself wondering what the real functional differences between the mixes are in that regard.

I think the main difference re: the fungus gnat thing is that the Rev's mix doesn't call for either neem or crustacean meal; BAS's does. I mean, that's the only thing that I can think of anyway.

Side note: woke up this morning, walked out into my backyard and there was a little Prayer Tower seedling sticking up out of the BAS mix. Looking at it right now haha. Seemed like it took forever, but it's there.

Seamaiden, just out of curiosity, how do you germinate? If I recall correctly, I think I saw on some thread here that you use the paper towel method, right? I was just wondering if you think it's possible to affect male/female ratios by the way one germinates their seeds. The reason I wondered is because I've read a TON of Bodhi grow logs (since his is the majority of the seeds that I have) and I've noticed that a lot of them have unusually high male to female ratios. Like three females out of a pack of eleven. Most of those grow logs (I'd say 90 percent of them) used the "soak then paper towel then grow medium" method. I wonder if it's possible that that was the reason why?
 
outwest

outwest

Premium Gardener
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I never have fungus gnats out doors, but I do have ants living in my soil. Plants seem healthy regardless.

outwest
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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@Bulldog11 -- we've discussed what we're getting for our product. I'm paying $33/yd for a soil that doesn't cause me problems and seems to grow great veggies and weed. I won't ever make the claim that it's the best, because I don't *know* that it's the best, but it's the best I can do for the amount of money I have to spend. While I admit I'm terrible at the maths, I believe I'm getting a much better return on my investment than you are for the soil I buy premixed (from a local outfit, and yes, it comes with some basic testing and organic certification, it's been a while since I've laid eyes on the little brochure they hand out with it so I'd have to look around).

Either way, though, we're all familiar with that old saying, Get in where you fit in. Over $300 for a single yard of soil is something I simply cannot rationalize at this time, it does not make fiscal sense in my life. If it works for you, great. I have other things I'd rather spend that hard earned on.

@Minitiger -- yes, I prefer to start on paper towels instead of planting a seed and waiting to see if it sprouts. I want to know it's viable before I put it to soil. That said, I honestly cannot say with any certainty whether or not, let alone how a given method might affect sexual expression. I know breeders who say that how the parent stock is fed can affect male:female ratio, and I think Sativied just posted something in the thread called "want more females?" (I think that's what it's called) about how environment plays a role in sexual expression.

I'll tell you this: I use that method pretty much exclusively, and I don't have a high male:female ratio on Loran's beans. I get just the opposite, in fact. In fact, when I first ran his Longbottom Leaf years ago, I got 8 girls, no males.
 
Minitiger

Minitiger

1,441
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@Bulldog11 -- we've discussed what we're getting for our product. I'm paying $33/yd for a soil that doesn't cause me problems and seems to grow great veggies and weed. I won't ever make the claim that it's the best, because I don't *know* that it's the best, but it's the best I can do for the amount of money I have to spend. While I admit I'm terrible at the maths, I believe I'm getting a much better return on my investment than you are for the soil I buy premixed (from a local outfit, and yes, it comes with some basic testing and organic certification, it's been a while since I've laid eyes on the little brochure they hand out with it so I'd have to look around).

Either way, though, we're all familiar with that old saying, Get in where you fit in. Over $300 for a single yard of soil is something I simply cannot rationalize at this time, it does not make fiscal sense in my life. If it works for you, great. I have other things I'd rather spend that hard earned on.

@Minitiger -- yes, I prefer to start on paper towels instead of planting a seed and waiting to see if it sprouts. I want to know it's viable before I put it to soil. That said, I honestly cannot say with any certainty whether or not, let alone how a given method might affect sexual expression. I know breeders who say that how the parent stock is fed can affect male:female ratio, and I think Sativied just posted something in the thread called "want more females?" (I think that's what it's called) about how environment plays a role in sexual expression.

I'll tell you this: I use that method pretty much exclusively, and I don't have a high male:female ratio on Loran's beans. I get just the opposite, in fact. In fact, when I first ran his Longbottom Leaf years ago, I got 8 girls, no males.

Yeah, and I meant to say, too, that it's probably not the germination method that caused those high ratios, since that's the way most people do it and they've gotten plenty of females with other strains. I was just kind of thinking out loud (on keyboard). I should also mention that I've seen Bodhi logs when people have gotten all females. Or close to it. But I've seen way more that have an unusually high number of males. Wonder what it is?
 

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