Has anyone flowered at 13/11 what were your results is it worth it

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BigBlonde

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Does Dr. Bigbee have empirical evidence that this in fact happens? How would you be able to monitor when a plant goes into its darkness routine and set up a baseline to determine what is "awake" and what is "asleep"? Would it be determined by the amount of metabolic function? Chemical processes going on in that time period that are measurable?

If you have any vids you can link that talk about this I would love to watch them.....
This one is very good: Cannabis Grow Lighting Myths and FAQs with Dr. Bruce Bugbee
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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In essense the calvin cycle is always happening to an extent but the production of various metabolites and other compounds changes as does transport in the absence of light. This the shift in processes.

High photosynthetic rates can lead to higher photorespiration rates and thus less efficient photosynthesis as you get closer to photosaturation.

So when pushing plants hard with photosynthesis the dark period is a huge benefit for the plant to catchup sort a speak. Speeding up the change in processes could lead to a lower period of dark needed to catch up. This could lead to taking advantage of a different light cycle such as 6/1 and in turn greatly increase the over all photosynthesis efficiency per day.

Photosynthesis is at its highest rates in the first few hrs… as photorespiration increases as you get closer to photosaturation throughout the day photosynthetic rates decline.

There is still alot to learn on this but evidence is getting there to show this increase efficiency of changing processes is beneficial.

Now this greatly depends on your base to start and how hard your pushing you plant’s as to when you may see a benefit if at all for your specific grow. But all thing ideal then there is a benefit to be seen.

Quantifying that to yourself is no easy feat and thus its gard to say whether anyone will or will not benefit even if the benefits exist
 
Rebeccalovato777

Rebeccalovato777

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In essense the calvin cycle is always happening to an extent but the production of various metabolites and other compounds changes as does transport in the absence of light. This the shift in processes.

High photosynthetic rates can lead to higher photorespiration rates and thus less efficient photosynthesis as you get closer to photosaturation.

So when pushing plants hard with photosynthesis the dark period is a huge benefit for the plant to catchup sort a speak. Speeding up the change in processes could lead to a lower period of dark needed to catch up. This could lead to taking advantage of a different light cycle such as 6/1 and in turn greatly increase the over all photosynthesis efficiency per day.

Photosynthesis is at its highest rates in the first few hrs… as photorespiration increases as you get closer to photosaturation throughout the day photosynthetic rates decline.

There is still alot to learn on this but evidence is getting there to show this increase efficiency of changing processes is beneficial.

Now this greatly depends on your base to start and how hard your pushing you plant’s as to when you may see a benefit if at all for your specific grow. But all thing ideal then there is a benefit to be seen.

Quantifying that to yourself is no easy feat and thus its gard to say whether anyone will or will not benefit even if the benefits exist
I completely agree with everything you just said so saying I don't like to push my plants very far as topping and defolation goes plus I'm only a beginner so I only top once! I just ordered a seed that is very forgiveness to all training so I'm gonna try to learn a little if your will to help me with some of that I would love that! I want to learn everything I can so I'm all ears!
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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I completely agree with everything you just said so saying I don't like to push my plants very far as topping and defolation goes plus I'm only a beginner so I only top once! I just ordered a seed that is very forgiveness to all training so I'm gonna try to learn a little if your will to help me with some of that I would love that! I want to learn everything I can so I'm all ears!
You bet… and lots of great ppl here with tons of knowledge to draw on too. You are active and engaged with the community and if you keep that up the info just keeps flowing between the community. Call it learning through osmosis but before you know it you have learned a ton without even realizing it.
 
PipeCarver

PipeCarver

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Photoperiod cannabis plants start flowering once they recieve 12hours of darkness. I've pretty much settled on 11/13 (on/off).
I usually go with 16/8 for veg. Ive tried other veg cycles 24/0, 18/6, 6/2...
6/6 is good if you want to slow down veg growth or keep plants small...
12 hours darkness is the signal for the plants to be flowering, so I personally use 13 (or at least 12.5) so that they definitely get the message, lol.
I've done the 11 on 13 off and I ended up with smaller lighter buds than on 12/12 I'm staying 12/12 if it aint broke don't fix it.
 
Rev Remedy

Rev Remedy

16
3
Actually Bruce Bugbee says that sunrise/sunset features in a grow light doesn't do much for the grow. He's stated that there is no evidence suggesting that the instant flash of light when the lights come on stresses the plants. I toyed around with the idea of purchasing a master light controller to do this until I watched his podcast. @Anthem told me it was a must-see before purchasing an item that I don't really need.

@Aqua Man stated there's benefit to using red/far red at dawn and dusk. I've got 8 grow daddy lights and several smart outlet timers. I think I'll be setting up my growdaddy lights on a different timer or different outlet and having them come on 10 minutes before and stay on 10 minutes after my grow light turns on/off during my fall indoor run. Lets see if it makes any recognizable changes in flowering patterns and yield.
Research has shown that far red, 730nm, “puts the plants to sleep” much faster. Some studies show as fast as 15-20 mins as opposed to 90-120…..therefore at 12 hours of darkness the plants get 10 hours of “sleep” ….going to a 14/10 while giving them about 30 mins of 730nm red at the end of the light period would give them the same amount of “sleep” as the 12/12 but give you two more hours of light energy for larger yields in the same flowering period….
 
Maxwax

Maxwax

329
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Plants grow faster at night. Just sayin. All plants do. That is to say...top growth. I assume that means flowers too.

Roots are more active during the day....one of several reasons I never water before a dark period.

Not advocating for more than 12 hours....just saying.
 
RootsRuler

RootsRuler

392
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Research has shown that far red, 730nm, “puts the plants to sleep” much faster. Some studies show as fast as 15-20 mins as opposed to 90-120…..therefore at 12 hours of darkness the plants get 10 hours of “sleep” ….going to a 14/10 while giving them about 30 mins of 730nm red at the end of the light period would give them the same amount of “sleep” as the 12/12 but give you two more hours of light energy for larger yields in the same flowering period….
Can you link the research that says this? I'd love to read the white paper on this and see if there are any other nuggets that I may find useful for my knowledge base.

If I hung a 730nm specific light, aside from the main light I have, how much PPFD would it need to be putting out for it to be effective? Would it be advisable to set it up on a separate timer to go on a few minutes before main light goes off to transition the girls into "get ready for bed" mode and once the main lights shut off and the 730nm is left on for 30 minutes they'll continue into sleep mode(Nyctinasty)?

Most LED lights give off some far red. Looking at the spectrum graph the manufacturer of my lights provided shows that they give off around 10% at full power. Is this enough or do I need to supplement to take advantage of the additional light energy provided by a 14/10 schedule?

More info on far red and red light effects on plant biology:

 
Last edited:
PipeCarver

PipeCarver

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Can you link the research that says this? I'd love to read the white paper on this and see if there are any other nuggets that I may find useful for my knowledge base.

If I hung a 730nm specific light, aside from the main light I have, how much PPFD would it need to be putting out for it to be effective? Would it be advisable to set it up on a separate timer to go on a few minutes before main light goes off to transition the girls into "get ready for bed" mode and once the main lights shut off and the 730nm is left on for 30 minutes they'll continue into sleep mode(Nyctinasty)?
Dr. Bruce Bugbee has some Youtube vids on it. I think a search there would find what you are looking for but in a video not paper.
 
RootsRuler

RootsRuler

392
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Dr. Bruce Bugbee has some Youtube vids on it. I think a search there would find what you are looking for but in a video not paper.
Cool! Will be reviewing Dr. Bugbee's content.

Something interesting that pertains to the pheno I'm growing contained in the article link I posted.

1. Shadow avoidance

One of the most important impacts of 730nm far red light on plants is shade avoidance. If a plant is exposed to the only 660nm of super red light, it will feel as if it is under sunlight and will grow normally. If the plant is mainly illuminated by the far red light of 730nm, the plant will feel as if it is blocked by another higher plant to accept lighting from sunlight. so the plant will work harder to break through the blocking, which is to help the plant grow taller, but does not necessarily mean that there will be more biomass .

If the plants you grow get stretched singularly ,meanwhile long and lanky , too much far-red light may be the culprit.plant like this is too weak to hold up the healthy flowers you’re hoping to cultivate. Far-red light can promote stem elongation, but the ratio of far-red light should be based on reasonable science. and scientifically verified.


GG4 stretches like crazy if you let it. I wonder if reducing 730nm during seed and veg would help in keeping these phenotypes from stretching as much as they do then, once flower pistils are set, increase 730nm to activate the growth spurt it provides but in the flowering stage.
 
PipeCarver

PipeCarver

3,651
263
Cool! Will be reviewing Dr. Bugbee's content.

Something interesting that pertains to the pheno I'm growing contained in the article link I posted.

1. Shadow avoidance

One of the most important impacts of 730nm far red light on plants is shade avoidance. If a plant is exposed to the only 660nm of super red light, it will feel as if it is under sunlight and will grow normally. If the plant is mainly illuminated by the far red light of 730nm, the plant will feel as if it is blocked by another higher plant to accept lighting from sunlight. so the plant will work harder to break through the blocking, which is to help the plant grow taller, but does not necessarily mean that there will be more biomass .

If the plants you grow get stretched singularly ,meanwhile long and lanky , too much far-red light may be the culprit.plant like this is too weak to hold up the healthy flowers you’re hoping to cultivate. Far-red light can promote stem elongation, but the ratio of far-red light should be based on reasonable science. and scientifically verified.


GG4 stretches like crazy if you let it. I wonder if reducing 730nm during seed and veg would help in keeping these phenotypes from stretching as much as they do then, once flower pistils are set, increase 730nm to activate the growth spurt it provides but in the flowering stage.
I added some cheap 4ft red led strip lights into my veg tent along side of my Blue & full spectrumT5' tubes and it definitely stretches out the stems. I noticed after about 2 weeks with them in my veg closet the difference in growth and they do get longer and thinner stalks & branches. I recently finished a GG#4 without support and she looked like an umbrella at the end with everything hanging upside down.
1659546671819
 
MIGrampaUSA

MIGrampaUSA

2,490
263
Cool! Will be reviewing Dr. Bugbee's content.

Something interesting that pertains to the pheno I'm growing contained in the article link I posted.

1. Shadow avoidance

One of the most important impacts of 730nm far red light on plants is shade avoidance. If a plant is exposed to the only 660nm of super red light, it will feel as if it is under sunlight and will grow normally. If the plant is mainly illuminated by the far red light of 730nm, the plant will feel as if it is blocked by another higher plant to accept lighting from sunlight. so the plant will work harder to break through the blocking, which is to help the plant grow taller, but does not necessarily mean that there will be more biomass .

If the plants you grow get stretched singularly ,meanwhile long and lanky , too much far-red light may be the culprit.plant like this is too weak to hold up the healthy flowers you’re hoping to cultivate. Far-red light can promote stem elongation, but the ratio of far-red light should be based on reasonable science. and scientifically verified.


GG4 stretches like crazy if you let it. I wonder if reducing 730nm during seed and veg would help in keeping these phenotypes from stretching as much as they do then, once flower pistils are set, increase 730nm to activate the growth spurt it provides but in the flowering stage.
I've noticed the difference in growth between 6500k "cold white" light and 3000k warm white light. There's a world of difference.

Dr Bugbee explains it pretty well in easy to understand terms. However, he's not the first to talk about this. This phenomena is called the Emerson Effect after Robert Emerson. He was a Harvard educated scientist who studied this for several decades before reporting his discoveries in 1957. There's probably a lot of material out there to read under the term "Emerson Effect" if you want to research it further.
 
Rebeccalovato777

Rebeccalovato777

233
63
I added some cheap 4ft red led strip lights into my veg tent along side of my Blue & full spectrumT5' tubes and it definitely stretches out the stems. I noticed after about 2 weeks with them in my veg closet the difference in growth and they do get longer and thinner stalks & branches. I recently finished a GG#4 without support and she looked like an umbrella at the end with everything hanging upside down.
View attachment 1267687
Wow nice and beautiful!
 
PipeCarver

PipeCarver

3,651
263
What's floralicious plus is it a nutrient or fertilizer?
Its label says from General Hydroponics
  • Floralicious plus is a super concentrated blend of bioactive plant, marine, microbial and mineral extracts
  • With high concentrations of vitamins, complex sugars, amino acids,, polyflavonoids
  • Floralicious plus also encourages beneficial microbial activity in the root zone
it helps the plants break down the nutes added into the ions they absorb...or some sht like that........There are a couple of key acids in it Humic & bor ic?? that are key to the whole additive...or so I've been told Expensive stuff at $43 pint.. 250 ml and We use 1ml per gal with feed.
 

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