Has anyone had success with Hammer Head Ornamental Plant Growth Regulator

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Detroitgrow

Detroitgrow

Was asking how to get my buds tight and dense, I was told about Hammer Head Ornamental Plant Growth Regulator. What do you think
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

Supporter
@Dirtbag maybe you could chime in here? I seem to recall paclobutrazol being quite nasty and if I'm not mistaken, it may be one of the prohibited PGR's?
Yep Paclo is nasty shit. Not ok to use on Cannabis at all.
It will cause buds to grow extremely dense and fast flowering. But I believe there is currently some concern that smoking it could be potentially carcinogenic.

Either way, I would never ever in a million years use it on cannabis.
 
Habosabin

Habosabin

Yep Paclo is nasty shit. Not ok to use on Cannabis at all.
It will cause buds to grow extremely dense and fast flowering. But I believe there is currently some concern that smoking it could be potentially carcinogenic.

Either way, I would never ever in a million years use it on cannabis.
Are there any safe ones that are similar in performance?
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

Supporter
Are there any safe ones that are similar in performance?
Not really similar no. Paclo basically retards the plants ability to elongate stems so the flower bracts end up extremely tightly clustered. There are natural PGRs that work well like triacontanol but they don't really do the same thing. Tria makes bigger buds, but not necessarily denser, harder buds. Paclo buds are like rocks. If you've ever bought weed and thought to yourself Holy hell these buds are rock-hard dense, the grower could very well have used paclo. Likely even.
 
royfree2grow

royfree2grow

Paclobutrazol is approved for food crops in my country and in europe.

I never used it, but after struggling with the idea for a long time, I thougt of using it in my current operation. Now im reading the total prohibition in the usa and im seriously rethinking it.

As far as i know, read and spoke to professionals on the matter, there is no conclusive scientific evidence of paclobutrazol or many other gibberellin biosynthesis inhibitors being carcinogenic.

This product is around for years, differenr label, same active ingredient and I know that many great growers non the less have used it. I'd love to hear some opinions from the old school growers on the matter.

Happy farming
 
3 balls

3 balls

Paclobutrazol is approved for food crops in my country and in europe.

I never used it, but after struggling with the idea for a long time, I thougt of using it in my current operation. Now im reading the total prohibition in the usa and im seriously rethinking it.

As far as i know, read and spoke to professionals on the matter, there is no conclusive scientific evidence of paclobutrazol or many other gibberellin biosynthesis inhibitors being carcinogenic.

This product is around for years, differenr label, same active ingredient and I know that many great growers non the less have used it. I'd love to hear some opinions from the old school growers on the matter.

Happy farming
Karma is a mofo. There's no shortage of outfits sneaking this into their products OG, Original etc. I personally feel like I have a responsibility to not take chances at other peoples expense for a buck even if the science is not rock solid. On top of that, consumers are becoming savvy to this $$ making short cut. You can google it, like dirtbag said they end up hard as a rock and actually look more like a rock than a bud.

P.S. A lot of things that are approved for food crops are not ok for cannabis as you typically dont smoke watermelons.
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

Supporter
Myclobutanil is approved for use on food crops too. And we've all heard about why you shouldn't use eagle 20 or Nova 40 on cannabis.

I'm just not ok experimenting with questionable chemicals in my weed. And it creates a fake product, like chick's with silicone titties or dudes on a steroid stack.
It just creates a superficial illusion of superiority. When in fact it's been shown that paclobutrazol use actually reduces the levels of cannabinoids and terpenes compared to the natural product grown without it. It sacrifices quality for bag appeal.
 
ArrEll

ArrEll

Not really similar no. Paclo basically retards the plants ability to elongate stems so the flower bracts end up extremely tightly clustered. There are natural PGRs that work well like triacontanol but they don't really do the same thing. Tria makes bigger buds, but not necessarily denser, harder buds. Paclo buds are like rocks. If you've ever bought weed and thought to yourself Holy hell these buds are rock-hard dense, the grower could very well have used paclo. Likely even.
I had bought several 1/8ths from a local dispensary here about a year ago. ONE of them had ROCK-HARD buds. Just like little pieces of Basalt. SO hard, I almost needed a mortar & pestle to break them up. I really didn't like the High, and I thought at that time: "There's something wrong with this..." - and I still have some. I wonder if the grower may have used this chemical. None of the other 1/8ths I bought, were like this at all. 🤯
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

Supporter
I had bought several 1/8ths from a local dispensary here about a year ago. ONE of them had ROCK-HARD buds. Just like little pieces of Basalt. SO hard, I almost needed a mortar & pestle to break them up. I really didn't like the High, and I thought at that time: "There's something wrong with this..." - and I still have some. I wonder if the grower may have used this chemical. None of the other 1/8ths I bought, were like this at all. 🤯

That sounds like a pretty good indicator.

It stands out among regular cannabis. And don't get me wrong, some strains get naturally dense, I have one strain right now that is nearly pgr like in density. But it's not that common. So i don't want people assuming all hard buds are pgr buds.

To me a paclo bud stands out when it looks extremely dense and rounded to the point that you can no longer really make out the individual calyxs'. It just looks like a large, very smoothly rounded, rock hard mass of bud, and when you break it open the inside of the bud is equally rock hard and densely clustered. Typically the smell will be mediocre, and smoke the same. But it will look like some mutant bud grown by the best grower on the planet.

Once you've seen verified paclo grown bud, it's not hard to recognize its traits.
 
Habosabin

Habosabin

Are there any other practices that make the nugs harder. Does hanging upside down make them more dense than on their side for example. My buds seem really dense on the plant but after dry and cure never as hard as dispensary.

My environment probably isn't under total control.
 
Habosabin

Habosabin

That sounds like a pretty good indicator.

It stands out among regular cannabis. And don't get me wrong, some strains get naturally dense, I have one strain right now that is nearly pgr like in density. But it's not that common. So i don't want people assuming all hard buds are pgr buds.

To me a paclo bud stands out when it looks extremely dense and rounded to the point that you can no longer really make out the individual calyxs'. It just looks like a large, very smoothly rounded, rock hard mass of bud, and when you break it open the inside of the bud is equally rock hard and densely clustered. Typically the smell will be mediocre, and smoke the same. But it will look like some mutant bud grown by the best grower on the planet.

Once you've seen verified paclo grown bud, it's not hard to recognize its traits.
I've also read that pgrs make a ton of pistils.
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

Supporter
I've also read that pgrs make a ton of pistils.
That is an indicator too.
Nothing really increases density to much of a degree other than predisposed genetics in an ideal environment, or chemical help. You can however make a naturally dense plant fluffy and airy if the growroom is too hot and humid, and drying too fast can cause buds to go more brittle and not feel as hard once dry. But you can't really make a naturally non-dense plant rock hard through "diet and exercise", hang drying or using pk boosters or natural supplements.

Basically my analogy is you aren't gonna look like Ronny Coleman without using the juice. There are some massive nattys out there mind you, but don't be fooled, a lot, if not most of the heavy hitters in Hollywood are juicing.

And for mostly the same reason ironically... its an easy shortcut to creating something that looks desirable.
 
royfree2grow

royfree2grow

Pesticides that are approved for food and not recommended for canabis are dangarous just the same wheather you consume them through cannabis or a watermelon.

Differences are the pyrolization process that the chemical will go through which may change it (if the product is being consumed by smoking). -But that's also applicable to neem, azadiractin etc. Additionaly, the resin and physical shape of the bud can make the chemical stay on the plant which wont happen with a watermelon or a washable fruit, unless the chemical used was systemic.

I find this whole thing somewhat hypocritical or maybe like putting your head in the sand- almost every fruit and vegtable you buy in the supermarket has stuff like imidacloprid, abamectin, cypermethrin and many other poisons that we know for a fact are carcinogenic, not maybe. I presume most growers who wont use pgr's on their plants will feed it to their kids through store bought food.
 
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royfree2grow

royfree2grow

That sounds like a pretty good indicator.

It stands out among regular cannabis. And don't get me wrong, some strains get naturally dense, I have one strain right now that is nearly pgr like in density. But it's not that common. So i don't want people assuming all hard buds are pgr buds.

To me a paclo bud stands out when it looks extremely dense and rounded to the point that you can no longer really make out the individual calyxs'. It just looks like a large, very smoothly rounded, rock hard mass of bud, and when you break it open the inside of the bud is equally rock hard and densely clustered. Typically the smell will be mediocre, and smoke the same. But it will look like some mutant bud grown by the best grower on the planet.

Once you've seen verified paclo grown bud, it's not hard to recognize its traits.
When you see it, and sample it you cant confuse it with a normal bud. That shit litteraly broke my grinder.
 
3 balls

3 balls

Pesticides that are approved for food and not recommended for canabis are dangarous just the same wheather you consume them through cannabis or a watermelon.

Differences are the pyrolization process that the chemical will go through which may change it (if the product is being consumed by smoking). -But that's also applicable to neem, azadiractin etc. Additionaly, the resin and physical shape of the bud can make the chemical stay on the plant which wont happen with a watermelon or a washable fruit, unless the chemical used was systemic.

I find this whole thing somewhat hypocritical or maybe like putting your head in the sand- almost every fruit and vegtable you buy in the supermarket has stuff like imidacloprid, abamectin, cypermethrin and many other poisons that we know for a fact are carcinogenic, not maybe. I presume most growers who wont use pgr's on their plants will feed it to their kids through store bought food.
What I've found to work best is spraying my kids down with Azamax when we go camping and I always rinse my buds in the sink before packing a bowl.
 
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