Help leaves have yellowing and spots.

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SAFMAN

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OK so I just switched to Hydro flood and drain. Before I ran soil for about 5 years. I have never had this problem before with soil but im getting yellowing and brown spots on the leaves. Can anyone tell me what its from?

I am in trays with 6*6 cubes. I am 10 days into veg. Using 3 part GH, Cal Mag, Nitrozyme, dark energy, and hygrozyme. PH 5.8-6.0. PPM at 950-1000.

They under 1000 watt light.

temp is about 65-70 in the room

everything is brand new

strain is GDP

Heres pics of the leaves.
aleaf.jpg



aleaf2.jpg
 
St3ve

St3ve

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That seems kind of cool for your room temp but I don't think thats what is causing it. Just sayin..

Are you using ro water or tap? Assuming tap since you didn't mention ro. That said.. I would flush your res and ONLY use GH 3 part with nothing else. Cal-Mag if your are using ro water.

950-1000 seems high for 10 days into veg to me. I use the same 6" blocks with gh myself and just barely get up that high when I'm 4 weeks into flower. Usually in veg I'm 600-800. I myself use tap, with only gh 3 part in 6" blocks and consistently pull right around 26-27 z's per 1k. I know its not setting records but its solid.

Just my thoughts on the matter, good luck.
 
singlespeed

singlespeed

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Nutrient burn. I just finished GDP and had similar looking spots early in veg. I would back off on the nutes and flush with Clearex. What is your water/RO setup? If corrected, it's not a huge problem.
 
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Mr.Detroit

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your ph is off if your adding cal mag cuz that looks like a calmag def for sure your ppm could be to high but I doubt it... Go calibrate your meter and try again. In the meantime start flushing and go get some magic green from house and garden and foliar feed those bitches until you can get everything back on track. The magic green should give you a few days of time to play doctor. The only other thing that made my leaves look like that was when my co2 reg leaked and my plants got co2 burn. I say scrap gh and get h & g full line nothing else you will never look back.
 
S

SAFMAN

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I do use an RO and its a fresh new Merlin so the ppm is coming out only about 20. Thats why I use Cal Mag and Ive used everything else for years just now to GH instead of Botanicare grow and bloom I used to use in dirt. Im going to try to magic green I have heard of that and I have looked into the H and G stuff to. Just really cant figure out what the brown spotting is. Some places said Nitrogyn defficiency but thats not it with Nitrozyme that never happens. Guess Ill just flush em with the clear x and start fresh.
 
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Mr.Detroit

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I do use an RO and its a fresh new Merlin so the ppm is coming out only about 20. Thats why I use Cal Mag and Ive used everything else for years just now to GH instead of Botanicare grow and bloom I used to use in dirt. Im going to try to magic green I have heard of that and I have looked into the H and G stuff to. Just really cant figure out what the brown spotting is. Some places said Nitrogyn defficiency but thats not it with Nitrozyme that never happens. Guess Ill just flush em with the clear x and start fresh.

the brown spotting looks like a calcium def to me
 
3

3Cz

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Nute lockup. Flush n feed. Raise your temps into the mid 70's so the plants can uptake the nutrients better or else lower your ppm.

Regards
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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First, let me qualify *my* answers by saying that I don't use rockwool, hydroton or straight hydro, I'm a coco-nut and soil-grower, using aerocloning. Second, let me qualify my answers by saying that, without seeing actual amounts of each product you're using, it looks to me like your numbers (pH & ppm, though you didn't share what conversion factor is being used) look pretty much SPOT ON to my coco-eyes.

Also, it's most helpful to get both overall photos of the plants as well as close-ups, because right now I want to know where those affected leaves came from. If they're from low down on the plant then they're showing a fairly classic Ca deficiency, with the beginnings of a Mg deficiency. If not, then I'm thrown.

I was having problem after problem with my grows specifically in the Ca/Mg department until I stopped using the combination products and went with separating out Ca and Mg. I haven't a clue why, I wish I saw the same success when using, say, Sensical or GO's Ca-Mg+ (because it smells good, has zero nitrogen and qualifies as organic), but I didn't. I honestly don't know why that was. Now I use a 6% Ca (OMRI product) and MgSO4 (Epsom salt) and the one problem I'm NOT having is Ca/Mg. LMAO!

In any event, I think you need more input from other hydro growers, you've gotten a whole bunch of different answers here, my personal opinion falls in the same category as Mr. Detroit, it's a Ca/Mg issue. Ca deficiency causes the spotting and necrotic bits (on older leaves, it's immobile so this is important to know). Mg deficiency causes, among other things, interveinal chlorosis (yellowing BETWEEN the leaf veins).

You can do a foliar app of one or both to try to tease them apart, quarter teaspoon per gallon of the MgSO4, and I'd probably do about 1 teaspoon per gallon of a Ca formula that's 3%-6% concentration. If you stop the progression, then you know you've found the problem. If it continues, then you may have either an uptake problem (the pH people are talking about, when in doubt I recalibrate my meter, do that at least once a month anyway, usually more often) or a toxicity. Toxicities of many elements can look almost exactly like deficiencies, which makes Dx really difficult.
 
M

Mr.Detroit

Guest
First, let me qualify *my* answers by saying that I don't use rockwool, hydroton or straight hydro, I'm a coco-nut and soil-grower, using aerocloning. Second, let me qualify my answers by saying that, without seeing actual amounts of each product you're using, it looks to me like your numbers (pH & ppm, though you didn't share what conversion factor is being used) look pretty much SPOT ON to my coco-eyes.

Also, it's most helpful to get both overall photos of the plants as well as close-ups, because right now I want to know where those affected leaves came from. If they're from low down on the plant then they're showing a fairly classic Ca deficiency, with the beginnings of a Mg deficiency. If not, then I'm thrown.

I was having problem after problem with my grows specifically in the Ca/Mg department until I stopped using the combination products and went with separating out Ca and Mg. I haven't a clue why, I wish I saw the same success when using, say, Sensical or GO's Ca-Mg+ (because it smells good, has zero nitrogen and qualifies as organic), but I didn't. I honestly don't know why that was. Now I use a 6% Ca (OMRI product) and MgSO4 (Epsom salt) and the one problem I'm NOT having is Ca/Mg. LMAO!

In any event, I think you need more input from other hydro growers, you've gotten a whole bunch of different answers here, my personal opinion falls in the same category as Mr. Detroit, it's a Ca/Mg issue. Ca deficiency causes the spotting and necrotic bits (on older leaves, it's immobile so this is important to know). Mg deficiency causes, among other things, interveinal chlorosis (yellowing BETWEEN the leaf veins).

You can do a foliar app of one or both to try to tease them apart, quarter teaspoon per gallon of the MgSO4, and I'd probably do about 1 teaspoon per gallon of a Ca formula that's 3%-6% concentration. If you stop the progression, then you know you've found the problem. If it continues, then you may have either an uptake problem (the pH people are talking about, when in doubt I recalibrate my meter, do that at least once a month anyway, usually more often) or a toxicity. Toxicities of many elements can look almost exactly like deficiencies, which makes Dx really difficult.
Listen to this guy he knows his shit ^^^
 
S

SAFMAN

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I use cal mag and i'm on same regimen as a friend and he doesn't have this problem at all. Using 2.5ml per gallon of cal mag has been what i used in soil also. As far as ph, my pen is on i calibrated it pretty often and i also double check with a dropper to make sure it's not way off. So ph is always 5.8-6.0. Which everywhere i read is the best for hydro. I have air stones and circulating pump in the water so the water is fresh. Should i up the amount od cal mag? Considering switching to the house and garden line i like there feed charts and heard good things about em. I flushed the plants last night with clear x and fed em again so i will see if there is any change or if the problem stabilized.
 
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1seventiesguy

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Just A thoiught, I am using almost the same set up, the only difference is i am using botnicare nuets. I also have had that problem and new to hydro. I think we have to high ppm. I also read that to high of ppm can cause nuet lock up, which would make a cal mag def. I started flushing with strait watter this am. good luck
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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I would give a foliar feed of Cal-Mag and see if that stops the progression. You can certainly up the application rate, when I use GO Cal-Mag+ I use it at 5-10mls/gallon (coco, different from other media, is a Ca/Mg hog so to speak).

If you think you're running your nutes too rich, then a slight flush (or just plain water instead of using a flushing solution), but I will say what others kept saying to me--don't measure in ppm's (or, if you do, include conversion factor), measure in EC/uS (microSiemens) as those are the parameters that TDS and ppm are calculated from. But honestly, I don' think the OP's nutes are being run too high.
 
ScuzyRoach

ScuzyRoach

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First off like Seamaiden i'm a soil guy but it looks like Mag. def. to me. One thing to remember about GH 3 part is that the mag. is in their Bloom. The Cal. is in the Micro. It could be that your not using enough of the Bloom to get proper ratio's. It should be around 2 to 1 (cal to mag.) Also remember that too much Cal. can lock out Mag. When using Cal-Mag plus i suggest always adding it first to your res. because it can become unavailable if added to a mix of your main nutes.
Also if your using the GH feeding schedule w/ CalMag+ , i see your amount of Cal. being a bit too high. (5% Cal. in the GH Micro, plus 3.2% in the CalMag+) and only (1.5% Mg. in the GH Bloom, .5% Mg. in the GH Grow, 1.2% Mg in CalMag+). I think during the Veg. they have their micro at 2 times the bloom amount. This would have you using a way higher ratio of Cal to Mag. (since the Micro already has 2x the Cal. as the amount of Mag. in the Bloom). Once you get to the Bloom part of the schedule the Micro and Bloom amount are equal, which should bal. their Cal/Mag. ratio.
I really suggest foliar feeding to correct micro nute problems. one, it acts faster and two, you dont need to mess too much w/ the rest of the formula. Maybe try epsom salt to correct the Mag. problem if immediate action is required.

ps. maybe try the GH nutrient calculator to see what your Cal - Mag ratio is currently.
 
Snowblind

Snowblind

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Just because you are using the same nutes as your friend does not mean you have the same growing conditions or issues, success or failures.

Those plants are having problems uptaking nutes! Ca might be possible cause of those rust spots, but so is a K issue and Mg issue. Another thing issues with Calcium are different then issues with Magnesium. The rust spots will generally show up on older or middle aged leaves first with a Mg problem. Mg issues often take a little while longer to show up in a plants life cycle. Mg issues could be curled, canoed leaves in your canopy and a tiger strip look with yellowed/yellowing edges, yet a green striped center to the leaf(green along the veins). Your leaves look like they are well on the way to having a Mg issue as well as Ca and overall uptake issue!! The issues with the leaves could or often are an extension of something in the roots or their development.

We need to make sure your plants are uptaking/absorbing nutes properly from the root zone. This is what lead to proper, explosive cannabis growth.

Did the tips, margins and then the leaves develop spots then yellow?

The purple color of those stems indicate an issue uptaking nutes as well. RO water can help lead to some Ca issues in young plants if the nutes used are not balanced in the correct ratios for the feeding! Fixing and or understanding the uptake issue is a must, not just throwing Cal/Mg at the plants. Sometimes this can even make things worse. There could be many causes for the problem of nutrient uptake, including and not limited to, pests, disease, root issues, climate.....

I like Ca to be around .8% or so the total N in flower, meaning if I was nuting with a formula that had a ppm of 120 for the N then the Ca would be around 96 ppm of Ca. You need more Ca if you recirculate to help buffer the nutes. Less Ca if you drain to waste.

You need to understand fully the exact ppm nutrient profile, as best you can, that you are feeding the plants in order to best interpret their physical problems and relate to the language of the plants as they communicate their needs.

Please let me know the exact ml per gallon of GH G/M/B and Cal/Mg that you are using and I will figure out your profile. What is the size of your reso? Can you post picks of the whole plant?

With GH I would consider a profile of 5 micro, 5 bloom and 6.5 grow with the use of epson salts at a ratio of 1.25 grams per gallon once you flip to 12/12. I would change the reso often, adding back water only for top offs and keeping the ph adjusted to 5.7. The 5micro, 5bloom, 6.5gro will lead to a ppm breakdown of..

N=121 (this is a touch high if you use a Nitric acid based ph down product)
P=42 (this goes up when you use most ph down products, like gh)
K=161
Mg=65
S=57
Ca=82

No more Lucas....

I try to grow in flower with a N-P-K ppm ratio of 3-1-4, something closer to the ratios found in tissue samples of actual weed plants that have now been conducted...

It sounds stupid, but you can add Ca by using your regular tap water(if you know the amount of Ca in your water and its not too high, some people have crazy amounts of Ca in their water), without adjusting your N profile. CaMg always adjusts the N ratio, which you might want to have a little more control over. I always treat Mg problems with epsom salt dissolved in a little water and added to the reso. This adds S which in most cases is a good thing! Sulphur is what makes your plants realize their full potential for the development of their aromas. Add more ppm of S to your nute mix and the plants will wreak....

We need to get your plants flushed out and on a nute profile that you at least know what you are feeding them...

Here is a shot of a K issue first on the big fan leaf, this dude starved his plant of K by accident and this is what happend... the second shot is classic Mg and Ca issue on a young clone... The third shot is a Slight Mg issue creeping in! Notice the slight yellowing starting from the edges of the leaves, notice closer the little tip of each seration and how they have yellowed first and most intensly, and how the yellow discoloration is begining to run into the leaf.

You should take pictures of your plants everyday and save them to catalogue the progression of the plants. You will learn a lot! Take pictures of many of the leaves that you remove(not every one, but a lot), track the nute issues, and deficiencies! Learn the language of your plants, they are screaming at you for the most part, the leaves always tell you what the plant needs.....So many growers have hungry plants so late in flower so many deficiencies...but that is another discussion..
 
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tortuga1503

tortuga1503

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wow some really good posts here,by some really informative people Thanks to you all..
 
S

Shankapotomus

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Great Info

I am constantly surfing around looking for more info on my hobby. I came across this post and liked it so much that I became a member here just to say this is some dandy information. Being a member of many other sites, I have found this one to add to may data base for good info.:anim_09:
 
S

Stinky Jesus

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High

You seem to know the answer to a question i need answering !

Which reading do I go off when using AN feeds, bought and used in Europe....
x500 or x700

Thanks

Stinky Jesus
 
Snowblind

Snowblind

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Safman whatever happend to the plants? Did they pull through?
 
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