Help Me Create a Concentrate Recipe for Jacks 3-2-1

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ExNavyInSTL

ExNavyInSTL

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Situation: I tend to grow on the Jacks 3-2-1 through Veg and switch to the modified version with P-K in Flower.

Request: I would like to learn how to formulate a (1 gallon / 3.8 liter) concentrated solution. From that concentrate, I would like to draw from 100ml at a time to create a proper-dosed 1-gallon / 3.8 liter solution.

This request calls for 2 different recipes: (1) Veg Recipe & (2) Flowering Recipe

First, the typical Veg Jack's (per one gallon/3.8 liter) recipe is:

3.6 gram for Part A
2.4 for Part B
1.2 for Epsom Salt

Second, concentrate for Flowering recipe:

2.0 grams for Part A
2.0 grams for Part B
2.0 grams for Epsom
1.2 grams for M-K-P

I do have a faint memory of Chemistry Lab exercises, so if you show me the math I might be able to make sense of it.

Why: For anyone reading this who doesn't understand why I want this concentrate, I'll explain. Instead of having to mess with the base powders/pellets and a measuring scale every feeding, I would like to grab a one-gallon jug of super-concentrate off the shelf and measure out 100ml and pour that into 1 gallon (3.8 liters) of R.O. water and be done. This batch will create up to 38 liters in nutrients from one powder/pellet measuring session.

Background: I discovered this nutrient line (Jack's / JR Peters) from watching GreenGene Garden videos, and then found Kootmed on Youtube how has very similar way with the products. There is almost 100% overlap between two until Flowering. See Kootmeds Chart below.

1663088805705
 
PK1

PK1

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Jack 3-2-1 is very simmilar to Megacrop and what i do is that i make a batch for each phase and i just feed that everytime i need to water. This is not concetrated but rather more volume.
I think that even if you make a concetrated batch, you are going to still need to do some math in order to keep the nutrients levels leveld at that specefic time of the grow.
 
ExNavyInSTL

ExNavyInSTL

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Jack 3-2-1 is very simmilar to Megacrop and what i do is that i make a batch for each phase and i just feed that everytime i need to water. This is not concetrated but rather more volume.
I think that even if you make a concetrated batch, you are going to still need to do some math in order to keep the nutrients levels leveld at that specefic time of the grow.

Right now, what I do is multiply everything by 3 and make up a 3-gallon batch and add that to my 12-gallon AutoPot reservoir.

However, I like the idea of making concentrated nutes. Mainly, I am interested in seeing the math equations of how to get there.
 
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TomH

TomH

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Isn't there a reason that companies separate their "bases" in such a way?
I'd presume that the concentrated chemicals can be either dangerous or degrade rapidly when mixed in concentrated form.

Just my humble opinion.
 
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PK1

PK1

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Right now, what I do is multiply everything by 3 and make up a 3-gallon batch and add that to my 12-gallon AutoPot reservoir.

However, I like the idea of making concentrated nutes. Mainly, I am interested in seeing the math equations of how to get there.
you can make a 1:1 ratio for a 10 gallon but have it in mixed in one gallon. This will constrade the nutrients to a high level where you can take few litters and mix into your resevor.
example: if you do 30grams of A+B into a gallon of water than you should get a crazy ec reading. Now you just need to figure out how many litters of that constrated nutrient would you need for the total gallons of resevor. I also agree with @TomH as the nutrients will degrade over time.
 
ExNavyInSTL

ExNavyInSTL

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1 gallon / 3.8 liters would be 38 feedings at 100ml.
Multiply the grams used for 1 gallon by 38.
OMG ... thank you. I was hoping it was that easy.

I was having nightmares of college chem labs and how lost I always felt in there.

Of course, every feeding or creation of a new batch for the reservoir I'll double check pH and E.C. Levels.
 
Anthem

Anthem

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Isn't there a reason that companies separate their "bases" in such a way?
I'd presume that the concentrated chemicals can be either dangerous or degrade rapidly when mixed in concentrated form.

Just my humble opinion.
There is no problem with making concentrated stocks. If you where to mix the concentrated stocks as concentrates that can cause problems
 
ExNavyInSTL

ExNavyInSTL

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TomH:

From what I understand, that is true when making up your initial solution from powder, but if you follow the "rules of order" when mixing A & Bs, they will not separate out of solution. For instance, in my case, I would start with Part A, then Epsom, then Part B.

If you take your time and agitate properly, making sure Part A is fully dissolved, then Part B and A can get along fine in concentration.



Isn't there a reason that companies separate their "bases" in such a way?
I'd presume that the concentrated chemicals can be either dangerous or degrade rapidly when mixed in concentrated form.

Just my humble opinion.
 
Iamthedude

Iamthedude

25
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I do the 100 gallon concentrates in a half gallon containers. Comes out to 18ml per gallon of water. They say you can mix the epson with part A but i keep it seperate incase i need to lower or up the magnesium. Definitely dont mix the epson with the calcium. Not sure how they have bottles of calmag together because the two does not mix well
 
fargonaz

fargonaz

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Another problem you could have is: that much salt might not go in to solution with the small amount of water. You might also need some kind of preservative/growth inhibitor for long term storage.
 
ExNavyInSTL

ExNavyInSTL

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TomH:

Based on what's been posted. It looks like I am wrong about making my concentrate as one unit. If I decide to go the concentrated route for my October grow, I'll make one jug for Jack's A & Epsom and another jug for Part B.

I only make 3 gallons at a time to add to a 12-gallon reservoir, so just using powder every batch might be the best way to go.

Isn't there a reason that companies separate their "bases" in such a way?
I'd presume that the concentrated chemicals can be either dangerous or degrade rapidly when mixed in concentrated form.

Just my humble opinion.
 
Iamthedude

Iamthedude

25
13
TomH:

Based on what's been posted. It looks like I am wrong about making my concentrate as one unit. If I decide to go the concentrated route for my October grow, I'll make one jug for Jack's A & Epsom and another jug for Part B.

I only make 3 gallons at a time to add to a 12-gallon reservoir, so just using powder every batch might be the best way to go.
The problem with that is not all of it is going to be soluable unless your water is warmer. Reason i make a concentrate is to ad warm water to it so all of it dissolves that way you can add it to cooler water that you are putting in your reservoir
 
Iamthedude

Iamthedude

25
13
I keep 3 different oral syringes and just pull 18ml per gallon out whenever i need it. Make 1/2 gallon concentrates and you can throw away the remaining after a grow..only takes about a cup of each for a whole grow. I do 7 to 10 at a time and that gets me through the whol process and then i make new for the next
 
ExNavyInSTL

ExNavyInSTL

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Iamthedude:

Your level of concentration is what I was really hoping for, but I made it 100 ML so that the math would be easier for anyone who came here to help me.

I think I could run this math out based what I have learned based 1 gallon (3.8L) for all three components in separate containers

I'll try the math here and let others check it for accuracy.

Originally, I said 100ml doses and since I was making a batch of 3.8 ml that means:
  • 38 times (x) 3.6g of Jack's A (136.8 grams total)
  • 38 x 2.4g Jacks B (91.2 grams total)
  • 38 x 1.2g Epsom Salts (45.6 grams total)
I would make 3 separate jugs for A, B, & Epsom. And for each gallon add about 100ml from each jug. Although, that amount would be 300ml extra of fluid. EC would be checked and diluted a little if needed. But, I have a better Idea. Let's get further concentrated.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is where I want a math check:

More concentrated version, still based 3.8 liter of RO Water to Mix.

If I wanted 50ML doses, I would multiply 3.6g, 2.4g and 1.2g by 76 (2 x 38 to double)

If I wanted 25ML doses, I would multiply 3.6g, 2.4g and 1.2g by 152 (4 x 38 to double again)

If I wanted 12.5 ML doses, I would multiply 3.6g, 2.4g and 1.2g by 304 (8 x 38 to double again)

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Ideal Recipe:

Now, say I am completely correct and I decided to go with 12.5 ML ... because I like your idea of a using a syringe. Much easier than pouring.
  • Jack's A would equal 1094.4 grams of nutrient (304 x 3.6 grams = 1094.4)
  • Jack's B would equal 729.6 grams of nutrient (304 x 2.4 grams = 729.6)
  • Epsom Salts would equal 364.8 grams of nutrient (304 x 1.2 grams = 364.8)
Am I getting this right?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One more equation - Lower to 1/2 gallon (1.9 liter) Jugs of Concentrate - Still 12.5ML per Dose

If I am correct above, I'll do one more equation. Say, I only wanted 1/2 gallon (1.9 liter) jugs of concentrate, but still wanted the 12.5 ML syringe amount per gallon (3.8L):

I would just half the above number 304 to 152 to my new multiplier, which means:
  • Jack's A would equal 547.2 grams of nutrient (152 x 3.6 grams = 547.2)
  • Jack's B would equal 364.8 grams of nutrient (152 x 2.4 grams = 364.8)
  • Epsom Salts would equal 182.4 grams of nutrient (152 x 1.2 grams = 182.4)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hat's off to steamroller for getting me started with realizing the 38 doses at 100ML. It's from his answer that I started working out the more concentrated doses.







I keep 3 different oral syringes and just pull 18ml per gallon out whenever i need it. Make 1/2 gallon concentrates and you can throw away the remaining after a grow..only takes about a cup of each for a whole grow. I do 7 to 10 at a time and that gets me through the whol process and then i make new for the next
 
plumsmooth

plumsmooth

75
18
  • 38 times (x) 3.6g of Jack's A (136.8 grams total)
  • 38 x 2.4g Jacks B (91.2 grams total)
  • 38 x 1.2g Epsom Salts (45.6 grams total)

If you calculate JACKs recipe it is closer to 3-2-.5
 
Anthem

Anthem

3,581
263
It is really not that complicated. If you go to the Jacks321 website and look up their feeding schedules they have the ratios and weights right their. They are using 1/100 ratio for injectors. If you want to make stock you can do it based off the ratios. I would not mix the stocks but have 3 separate tanks. Can you mix jacks with Epsom salt probably but that can change how long the stock is good for as well.
If you want to make say a quart of each. Take the weights for the gallon divide by 4 now you have 1 quart or 32oz of each stock. If you want to make 5 gallons of mixed nutrients you can use their formula to figure out the correct amounts. 1 to 100. One gallon is 128 OZ x 5 gallons = 640 oz. So 6 .4 oz of each stock gets you to Jacks at full strength. Basically 1.28 oz of each stock is 1/100.
 

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