Help me save my first hydro grow :(

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stltoed

stltoed

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Firstly, I'm likely the guy he's referring to since I'm the only former moderator who uses foliage pro all the way through flower.

however he also didn't mention that I also use potassium silicate to bump up the K and in flower my nutrient solution is about 70% foliage pro, 28% bloom and 2% potassium silicate. This brings the ratio closer to 2-1-2 and for late flower I aim for closer to 2-2-4 or 2-3-5 in that range. BUT, i have also used foliage pro and potassium silicate on their own for a full cycle with excellent results, and I know a lot of others who have too. But you need to add an additional source of K to balance it.
Hmm. Never heard of that.

The numbers in NPK are percentages of the element in the bottle. Adding another element to "balance" it out it doesn't remove the first element. It just raises the nutrient load. You really don't need a ton of Pottasium anyway. It's not like Phosphorous, or Nitrogen, it's more of a regulating on/off switch, for things like the action of stomata, than N or P.

Potassium Silicate can be a nightmare especially when used with nutrient rich water. Crazy pH swings, major issues with other nutrients. It should be added to pure RO to prevent lock out... maybe that's why it works for you. You're locking out a ton of Nitro. I don't know. I will add that if you are using it at all for the benefit of Silica try a mono-silicic acid based instead. Much more affective

There is a balance between Potassium and Calcium, but I'd have to look it up. I only use Potassium beyond my base nutes in a PK booster and that's just a couple weeks.

If it works for you then great. It hasn't worked here at all.
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

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Hmm. Never heard of that.

The numbers in NPK are percentages of the element in the bottle. Adding another element to "balance" it out it doesn't remove the first element. It just raises the nutrient load. You really don't need a ton of Pottasium anyway. It's not like Phosphorous, or Nitrogen, it's more of a regulating on/off switch, for things like the action of stomata, than N or P.

Potassium Silicate can be a nightmare especially when used with nutrient rich water. Crazy pH swings, major issues with other nutrients. It should be added to pure RO to prevent lock out... maybe that's why it works for you. You're locking out a ton of Nitro. I don't know. I will add that if you are using it at all for the benefit of Silica try a mono-silicic acid based instead. Much more affective

There is a balance between Potassium and Calcium, but I'd have to look it up. I only use Potassium beyond my base nutes in a PK booster and that's just a couple weeks.

If it works for you then great. It hasn't worked here at all.
The ppm is what matters most as long as they're generally balanced and don't have too much P. And of course adding an element doesn't remove another but it does change the proportion of nutrient in solution.

Anyhow, blaming what's happened here on his nute choice is ridiculous to me having used veg based nutes on their own for several years, and still do with minor adjustments. There is clearly something else gone wrong here.

And I hate to keep bringing this guy up but have a look and see what the studies coming out of the university of Utah from Dr Bugbee on medical cannabis shows for ideal npk. 2-1-2, all the way through.
 
stltoed

stltoed

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I have no idea how hard they have been driven. I don't even know what kind of light he's using. But I don't need to. It's obviously a Nitrogen toxicity.

Looking at the timeline, a couple weeks in to flower, is perfect timing for the hormones shift from veg to flower to show a Nitrogen toxicity. The older leaves are hit the hardest. But the plant is budding nicely, so I dont believe it's just a general overfeeding. It may be overfed, but a general over feeding doesn't cause damage like this because too many systems are not working to create such a localized problem.

If the lights were too high bleaching, and fried tops would be the most prominent problem.

PH could cause an issue like this. If his meter isnt calibrated, he may be compounding the issue with lock outs in other ways.
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

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We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one I guess.

Good luck highguy777.
 
stltoed

stltoed

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The ppm is what matters most as long as they're generally balanced and don't have too much P. And of course adding an element doesn't remove another but it does change the proportion of nutrient in solution.

Anyhow, blaming what's happened here on his nute choice is ridiculous to me having used veg based nutes on their own for several years, and still do with minor adjustments. There is clearly something else gone wrong here.

And I hate to keep bringing this guy up but have a look and see what the studies coming out of the university of Utah from Dr Bugbee on medical cannabis shows for ideal npk. 2-1-2, all the way through.
Really not sure what to say here without offending you..

There may be something else wrong. But let's fix the Nitro first and move on.

Yes but you're recommending a nutrient is 9-3-6 Not including Calcium and other additives. What would Bruce say about that?
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

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Really not sure what to say here without offending you..

There may be something else wrong. But let's fix the Nitro first and move on.

Yes but you're recommending a nutrient is 9-3-6 Not including Calcium and other additives. What would Bruce say about that?
I don't want to debate with you, it's a waste of our time. And I don't give a rats ass what anyone thinks about how I feed my plants, so go ahead and offend me. But I think the photos of my grows that I've shared here for years speak for themselves what using mostly vegetative npk based nutrients throughout flower is capable of. Also take a look at MiMeds perpetual grow thread for more examples.

I'm also not recommending straight 9-3-6 for flower as I stated in my other post, but I do stand by the fact that it works if used properly, which also means not using some nitrate based calcium supplent on top of it, and not using too high of a ppm. The president of Dyna gro freely admits this fact himself.
For calcium I would recommend using Calcium silicate or glucinate or carbonate etc before adding extra N in a calmag product. The "other addatives" I'd recommend in flower would be a pk supplement to further balance the ratio on top of foliage pro, and keep the ppm in check for the levels of light and Co2.

Anyway, I don't really care anymore what people want to do. And quite frankly I'm tired of people aggressively challenging everything like their way is the only way to do things. People can figure shit out on their own. I'm done. I've already unfollowed this thread, please don't quote or tag me anymore.
 
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stltoed

stltoed

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Anyway, I don't really care anymore what people want to do. And quite frankly I'm tired of people aggressively challenging everything like their way is the only way to do things. People can figure shit out on their own. I'm done. I've already unfollowed this thread, please don't quote or tag me anymore.
Easy man, I don't think I've been too aggressive. I wish you luck with your future grows and congratulations on the previous. I'm not here to throw stones, I just disagree with you on a few things... not the end of the world. If you want to share your knowledge than do so, but understand there are tons of opinions out there, understand they are going to pop up. No hard feelings
 
Cashmeh

Cashmeh

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So I know someone said not to cut all the bad leafs off due to them still having green in them. I would say if the leaf has more Brown than green it will block more photosynthesis below it than it will gain from the small healthy spot.

As to your new growth, your still fine. In fact now that your issues are over, I would set the lux to 30k min, what's it at now?

I'm also gonna agree on light burn over nutrient burn... Severe as you said early, then fixed, yet possibly too low now. My goal is to make sure my small upper leafs have no dark green. I keep bumping my light according to how dark new growth is.

I think you will still get some good smoke off here and it's time to try pushing them with light again.. But get rid of everything that's brown.. Your hydro, it looks horrible and it's causing slowed growth.

I assure you if you snip all thats bad.. It will grow just fine still lol.. Good luck man.. Keep up the good work.
 
highguy777

highguy777

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Firstly, I'm likely the guy he's referring to since I'm the only former moderator who uses foliage pro all the way through flower.

however he also didn't mention that I also use potassium silicate to bump up the K and in flower my nutrient solution is about 70% foliage pro, 28% bloom and 2% potassium silicate. This brings the ratio closer to 2-1-2 and for late flower I aim for closer to 2-2-4 or 2-3-5 in that range. BUT, i have also used foliage pro and potassium silicate on their own for a full cycle with excellent results, and I know a lot of others who have too. But you need to add an additional source of K to balance it.
Not you :( but this is good info lol
 
smokedareefer

smokedareefer

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Sorry had you mistaken for someone else in this forum my bad.
Whats your agenda here.

You got my attention when you argued with @Dirtbag as to what 20 20 20 ment. That got my attention and now your just trolling
 
Cashmeh

Cashmeh

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Sorry had you mistaken for someone else in this forum my bad.
Your good, but now I must defend my lux meter use. . .

Its free lol, and I have enough on my plate atm. I dont even understand the difference between par and lux if were being honest. And. . Honestly, i dont need to understand it quite just yet, perhaps one day when im done perfecting my lower half ill focus more on my lights and what not.

But hey, ill always not understand more than I do
 
stltoed

stltoed

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Your good, but now I must defend my lux meter use. . .

Its free lol, and I have enough on my plate atm. I dont even understand the difference between par and lux if were being honest. And. . Honestly, i dont need to understand it quite just yet, perhaps one day when im done perfecting my lower half ill focus more on my lights and what not.

But hey, ill always not understand more than I do
There's a lot to light measurement. It's all sciencey and stuff. I swore I would never get a light meter till I bought some new lights and they were so much brighter I wasn't sure where to set them.
 
highguy777

highguy777

43
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So I know someone said not to cut all the bad leafs off due to them still having green in them. I would say if the leaf has more Brown than green it will block more photosynthesis below it than it will gain from the small healthy spot.

As to your new growth, your still fine. In fact now that your issues are over, I would set the lux to 30k min, what's it at now?

I'm also gonna agree on light burn over nutrient burn... Severe as you said early, then fixed, yet possibly too low now. My goal is to make sure my small upper leafs have no dark green. I keep bumping my light according to how dark new growth is.

I think you will still get some good smoke off here and it's time to try pushing them with light again.. But get rid of everything that's brown.. Your hydro, it looks horrible and it's causing slowed growth.

I assure you if you snip all thats bad.. It will grow just fine still lol.. Good luck man.. Keep up the good work.
Yeah I think initially my having it too close to lights really bleached it , combined with too much nitrogen and not much anything else. what I’m doing now I’m just going to pump some water out and dilute it a little down to like 800.

I really have no idea what else to do everyone’s idea is complete opposite of eachother and now people are getting hostile xD so I shall experiment with just lowering the ppm and finishing out with foliage pro cause idk :(
Lights are back up to more normal strength, bud sites looking much nicer , seeing more frost which is nice :)
 
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