Help with diagnosis

[Judaz]

I would prob go with the nitrogen deficiency here and root bound cause. Those plants being in soil in 1 gallon pots are only going to struggle. No viroid signs here. Also check under this leaf to see if you may have spider mites. Don't like the little spots I'm seeing here
on first pic. make sure you don't have those dots in third pic.



.

 

[OjoDeMalo]

New question on some issues with lower leaves.
grown from seed Kashmiri Sirnoo
in fresh bag dirt, 5g smart pots
pHd H2O and botnaicare soil grow and some cal mag every 3rd feed
I looked around the site and came to the direction of a mold/fungus/rust
its a top and bottom shot of the same leaf. the digital microscope shows no active bugs.
all on lower growth and not every leaf or every plant.

any ideas?

 

[Trixie]

Your problem is you are bubbling your water and adding a lot of extra oxygen to it and that will raise the pH. Plus if you are using tap water then that is just adds to your problem with the soil, making it too alkaline Your soil pH is above 7 and that is the issue with your plants. .

 

[Beachwalker]

New question on some issues with lower leaves.
grown from seed Kashmiri Sirnoo
in fresh bag dirt, 5g smart pots
pHd H2O and botnaicare soil grow and some cal mag every 3rd feed
I looked around the site and came to the direction of a mold/fungus/rust
its a top and bottom shot of the same leaf. the digital microscope shows no active bugs.
all on lower growth and not every leaf or every plant.

any ideas?

Whole plant pictures in natural light are necessary

 

[Trixie]

A hydroxy group is the entity with the formula OH. It contains oxygen bonded to hydrogen and will change the pH. If the pH is high the trace elements will get locked out at 7.5 or over. You can have all the Iron you want, but it the pH is above 7.5 you will have trace nutrient deficiencies.

 

[OjoDeMalo]

A hydroxy group is the entity with the formula OH. It contains oxygen bonded to hydrogen and will change the pH. If the pH is high the trace elements will get locked out at 7.5 or over. You can have all the Iron you want, but it the pH is above 7.5 you will have trace nutrient deficiencies.

Yes I am bubbling the water (how did you pick that up? nailed it!), and I pH it (irrigation water) after nutes additions, up to 6.0-6.5. (Do you think) lowering the pH on the irrigation water more would counter act the higher pH in the soil? Tap water is a solid 7.0pH. After adding the nutes the pH sits around 4 and some pH up is required to raise the pH to 6.0-6.5. I had a similar issue with the last grow, and pHing the water fixed it.
Going on 3 years of growing and this is the first time I've had to deal with the water pH being an issue. It's also the first time using this new soil. "Kings Mix, Royale gold" and so far not super impressed.
Thank you for the reply.

I did a little research on the aeration/carbonate. I'll stop aerating and see what happens. I love chemistry.
"If CO2 supersaturated water is aerated it cannot be avoided that the pH will increase. Acid (CO2, H2CO3) is removed from the solution.
To keep the pH you should avoid the gas exchange. Don't aerate."
My poor attempt at citation: https://www.researchgate.net/post/What_do_you_think_about_Aeration_and_pH_increases

 

[OjoDeMalo]

Whole plant pictures in natural light are necessary

I get one up, I meant to say, "I'll get one up" too early in morning.

 

[Aqua Man]

Yes I am bubbling the water (how did you pick that up? nailed it!), and I pH it (irrigation water) after nutes additions, up to 6.0-6.5. (Do you think) lowering the pH on the irrigation water more would counter act the higher pH in the soil? Tap water is a solid 7.0pH. After adding the nutes the pH sits around 4 and some pH up is required to raise the pH to 6.0-6.5. I had a similar issue with the last grow, and pHing the water fixed it.
Going on 3 years of growing and this is the first time I've had to deal with the water pH being an issue. It's also the first time using this new soil. "Kings Mix, Royale gold" and so far not super impressed.
Thank you for the reply.

I did a little research on the aeration/carbonate. I'll stop aerating and see what happens. I love chemistry.
"If CO2 supersaturated water is aerated it cannot be avoided that the pH will increase. Acid (CO2, H2CO3) is removed from the solution.
To keep the pH you should avoid the gas exchange. Don't aerate."
My poor attempt at citation: https://www.researchgate.net/post/What_do_you_think_about_Aeration_and_pH_increases

Aerate your water... Plain and simple.

 

[OjoDeMalo]

Aerate your water... Plain and simple.

conflicting answers. The irrigation water is aerated constantly, the tap water sits for a day or two before being added to the reservoir and pHd before watering.

 

[Aqua Man]

Your problem is you are bubbling your water and adding a lot of extra oxygen to it and that will raise the pH. Plus if you are using tap water then that is just adds to your problem with the soil, making it too alkaline Your soil pH is above 7 and that is the issue with your plants. .

This is just wrong oxygen does not affect ph and having well oxygenated water is desirable. Soil will buffer the ph of water and providing the tap water is not very alkaline there is nothing to worry about.

Ph of tap water will normally rise after aeration this is a good thing as the water is reaching equilibrium with the air. After that point ph it down to what is desirable. Not aerating water is just not good practice.

 

[Aqua Man]

conflicting answers. The irrigation water is aerated constantly, the tap water sits for a day or two before being added to the reservoir and pHd before watering.

That's exactly what you should be doing. Aerate the res mix nutes and ph down before use.

 

[Dirtbag]

This is just wrong oxygen does not affect ph and having well oxygenated water is desirable. Soil will buffer the ph of water and providing the tap water is not very alkaline there is nothing to worry about.

Ph of tap water will normally rise after aeration this is a good thing as the water is reaching equilibrium with the air. After that point ph it down to what is desirable. Not aerating water is just not good practice.

You might be surprised to know I havent aerated my resivoirs in over 5 years. I dont aerate it currently running rockwool either.

 

[Aqua Man]

You might be surprised to know I havent aerated my resivoirs in over 5 years. I dont aerate it currently running rockwool either.

I don't necessarily mean air stones. Just good surface movement is aeration.

The reason I say you should is not only o2 exchange but CO2 exchange that can affect ph.

I'm not says ng it won't work but aerating is a better practice no matter how ya do. A stagnant res is not ideal imo

 

[MIMedGrower]

I don't necessarily mean air stones. Just good surface movement is aeration.

The reason I say you should is not only o2 exchange but CO2 exchange that can affect ph.

I'm not says ng it won't work but aerating is a better practice no matter how ya do. A stagnant res is not ideal imo

Aerating my well water caused calcium precipitation. And i learned the chlorine in tap (i dont have any here but did at the last place) dissapates mostly just by pouring it in the bucket.

I only let water sit to bring temp up. In summer i could probably use it right out of the tap.

 

[Aqua Man]

Aerating my well water caused calcium precipitation. And i learned the chlorine in tap (i dont have any here but did at the last place) dissapates mostly just by pouring it in the bucket.

I only let water sit to bring temp up. In summer i could probably use it right out of the tap.

Ph musta went way up which would indicate a high amount of carbonic acid to begin with. Could see precipitate in you soil after if the buffering was not able to handle it.

Most with city tap deal with chloramine it can stay for a much longer time than chlorine

 

[MIMedGrower]

Ph musta went way up which would indicate a high amount of carbonic acid to begin with. Could see precipitate in you soil after if the buffering was not able to handle it

Dont know. I dumped it the firat time i saw it. And packed away the air stones. You need to circulate a hydro res i realize but isnt a submersible pump the right way?

its to keep the nutrients in solution I guess.

 

[Aqua Man]

Dont know. I dumped it the firat time i saw it. And packed away the air stones. You need to circulate a hydro res i realize but isnt a submersible pump the right way?

its to keep the nutrients in solution I guess.

There is no difference if you use a pump or airstone. It's not the bubbles that create gas exchange it's the surface movement. Both will cause ph to rise or drop if the water and atmospheric gasses are not at equalibrium. This is inevitable the process is just sped up from agitation

 

[Dirtbag]

I don't necessarily mean air stones. Just good surface movement is aeration.

The reason I say you should is not only o2 exchange but CO2 exchange that can affect ph.

I'm not says ng it won't work but aerating is a better practice no matter how ya do. A stagnant res is not ideal imo

Yeah, I've read all that but still dont do anything anymore. I make a fresh res every 3 days, other than that it just sits. No movement, no bubbling, no flooming.. nothing. No ph or ppm drift at all over 3 days. No film on top or any weird side effects. If it was sitting for weeks or more, I'd probably add a bit of recirculation.
I used to be militant in my use of air stones and flooming pumps until I saw other guys saying fuck it, and getting the same results. That was like 6 years ago, and I havent looked back.

 

[Aqua Man]

Yeah, I've read all that but still dont do anything anymore. I make a fresh res every 3 days, other than that it just sits. No movement, no bubbling, no flooming.. nothing. No ph or ppm drift at all over 3 days. No film on top or any weird side effects. If it was sitting for weeks or more, I'd probably add a bit of recirculation.
I used to be militant in my use of air stones and flooming pumps until I saw other guys saying fuck it, and getting the same results. That was like 6 years ago, and I havent looked back.

If you agitate it does the ph change? Like I say I'm not saying it won't work... If it does then once you are delivering the solution your solution ph will not be the same after exposure is increased during feeding and the ph will be slightly different. But I can say it's not the best practice. Just understanding gas exchange. I promise no movement in a live res you would see a change in ph and o2 levels just from bacteria and break down of organic matter. However you are in a sterile system

 

[Aqua Man]

If your ph doesn't change when agitated then no cause for concern and like I said there may not be any negative effect. If it does change when you agitate it then you really should be agitating it... Again it may work but I would say not best practice is all.