Help with diagnosis?

[dcb6390]

Hi, I'm having issues with (what was) my healthiest plant in DWC. To me it looks like the symptoms of over-watering and lack of oxygen....but I've only got a few grows under my belt and felt like I should get a second opinion before acting on that hunch....
Res temp is 73.8
Ph 5.8-6.2
650ppm (masterblend + CalNi + Epsom)

The drooping started after a res change. I then noticed that water level was maybe too high and was submerging 1" or so of the net pot. I have dropped level to 1" below to expose more roots to air, but plant has not shown signs of recovering yet.
As you can see in the photos, the airstones (bars) I have are terrible, and may not be providing enough oxygen, or small enough bubbles. I have ordered some 10cm ceramic discs to replace them.
Currently not using h2o2 in res either, but have got some arriving in 2 days.
One of the photos shows the roots - would you say they are starting to go brown? It's only slightly "off-white" so could be from nutes rather than root rot maybe?

All of the above has led me to believe that lack of oxygen (over-watering) might be the cause...BUT the confusing part is that there are 3 other plants in the same Res which seem fine. One of them is the same strain as this (Jamaican Dream) and was planted same time. I have included a pic of the smaller (now healthier) Jamaican Dream for comparison.

Maybe I'm in the wrong ball-park entirely and this is a completely different issue??
I'm not sure.
Can someone please help me diagnose this and make a plan of action for recovery?

 

[dcb6390]

I should add it's been drooping for 2 days now

 

[bigslimdawg79]

Maybe PPM is too high?

 

[Aqua Man]

When you changed the water did you adjust them temp before adding so you didn't shock them?

When you say ph 5.8-6.2.. what is it?

What do you ph down to and how fast does it rise.

What is the source water?

How exactly are you mixing the nutrients? How much ppm of each? In what order?

What the airflow like in the grow area?

 

[dcb6390]

Maybe PPM is too high?

It's possible, but it was thriving on a higher ppm than that in the previous solution (i lowered it this change as I was adding two more younger plants). No previous signs of nute burn or discolorations until the drooping began. In fact it was probably the most impressive plant ive had so far in early veg, nodes are 5mm apart and everytthing was lush, dark green and reaching upwards. Interestingly, since the drooping started the lower leaves are shifting the a more "yellowy" green which I know can also be typical of nitrogen problems...but I cant imagine that being the case since masterblend has a decent amount on N in it plus i;m adding CalNi too...who knows....

When you changed the water did you adjust them temp before adding so you didn't shock them?

yeah i let the res bubble away for a few hours before reintroducing the plants, so temps should be comparable to the previous solution. I should probably pay closer attention to maintaing a *specific* res temp, but climate is cooler in my neck of the woods, and ive never seen the res temp go anywhere near 80, let alone over it.

When you say ph 5.8-6.2.. what is it?
What do you ph down to and how fast does it rise.

I usually ph down to 5.8 and then it will rise to 6 wtihin the first day. Settles a bit more after that and will slowly rise towards 6.5, but It doesnt generally go any higher than that. (i'm not specific with my determined ph, i was taught it will swing up and down to a small degree naturally, so i tend to just check it is between 5.8 and 6.2 daily, which it mostly is. IF i see it approach 6.5 I will generally change the res rather than add acid directly to a res with plants in it.
This morning it was 6.1, 2 days after res change.

What is the source water?

A mix of tap and RO (my tap water is 400ppm here, sigh). Should I move to purely RO? I dont have a filter installed yet, and am having to buy locally (its really cheap but a pain to get to)

How exactly are you mixing the nutrients? How much ppm of each? In what order?

ratios are 2(masterblend):1(epsom):2(CalNi). I add them in that order - masterblend, epsom, CalNi. I make sure everything is dissolved before adding the next powder. Then i dilute this with water until it tests at my desired ppm. This ratio was most commonly recommended by people using masterblend, so I went with that. Does that seem OK? I have downloaded hydrobuddy, but still getting to grips with it right now haha. I want a bit more control....NPK used by plants in early vs late flowering (and vegging too) changes dramatically, so these generic "3:1:2 for whole of veg" etc ideas seem sub-optimal at best.

Thinking about it now....would the following make a difference?... For the last res I added 12g,6g,12g in 5 gallons. It came out at 1200ppm which was way too high, so i took half and diluted it down to my desired level. I might just be clutching at straws here, but when i changed res this time (2 weeks later) i diluted and used the remainder of the 1200ppm mix from before, instead of making a new batch, Would this have an effect? Can the nutes spoil if they sit "pre-mixed" for so long?

What the airflow like in the grow area?

There is a healthy amount of breeze and fresh air over them, so I cant imagine it being that.

 

[Aqua Man]

usually ph down to 5.8 and then it will rise to 6 wtihin the first day. Settles a bit more after that and will slowly rise towards 6.5, but It doesnt generally go any higher than that. (i'm not specific with my determined ph, i was taught it will swing up and down to a small degree naturally, so i tend to just check it is between 5.8 and 6.2 daily, which it mostly is. IF i see it approach 6.5 I will generally change the res rather than add acid directly to a res with plants in it.
This morning it was 6.1, 2 days after res change.

Ph should go down to about 5.6 and drift up to 6.0 max with ideally 0.2 drift over 24 hrs

A mix of tap and RO (my tap water is 400ppm here, sigh). Should I move to purely RO? I dont have a filter installed yet, and am having to buy locally (its really cheap but a pain to get to)

400ppm is high I would use 75% RO and 25% tap for ideal water.

. I might just be clutching at straws here, but when i changed res this time (2 weeks later) i diluted and used the remainder of the 1200ppm mix from before, instead of making a new batch, Would this have an effect? Can the nutes spoil if they sit "pre-mixed" for so long?

Ideally mixing it at higher concentrations and diluting is best. Over a few days pathogens would concern me without beneficial bacteria or some to sterilize like h2o2.

 

[dcb6390]

Ph should go down to about 5.6 and drift up to 6.0 max with ideally 0.2 drift over 24 hrs

OK I will do this.

400ppm is high I would use 75% RO and 25% tap for ideal water.

Yeah that's what I was thinking, thanks for confirming. I hear you can run into issues quicker with pure RO so was planning on keeping a small amount of tap in there. I've always grown in Spain before (UK now), where I had very clean local river water for DWC availble 5 mins away on tap...so never had to use RO or tap water before (municiple tap water was sometimes 7-800ppm!!)

Ideally mixing it at higher concentrations and diluting is best. Over a few days pathogens would concern me without beneficial bacteria or some to sterilize like h2o2.

Yeah, I think that's what I meant, I just worded it badly haha. Obviously the mineral content wouldnt change but without aeration or h2o2 for 2 weeks, there might be some pathogens in there now....which i guess could have then "spoiled" the new solution and caused the plant to wilt....like i said seems slim...but technically possible I guess. New solution was 650ppm overall, which is roughly half "old-mix" and half water by volume.

I will change the res again (with a newly made solution) when the new airstones and h202 arrive, and will follow your above advice.
Hopefully it will recover.

Thanks for taking the time to try and help me out :)

 

[Aqua Man]

OK I will do this.


Yeah that's what I was thinking, thanks for confirming. I hear you can run into issues quicker with pure RO so was planning on keeping a small amount of tap in there. I've always grown in Spain before (UK now), where I had very clean local river water for DWC availble 5 mins away on tap...so never had to use RO or tap water before (municiple tap water was sometimes 7-800ppm!!)


Yeah, I think that's what I meant, I just worded it badly haha. Obviously the mineral content wouldnt change but without aeration or h2o2 for 2 weeks, there might be some pathogens in there now....which i guess could have then "spoiled" the new solution and caused the plant to wilt....like i said seems slim...but technically possible I guess. New solution was 650ppm overall, which is roughly half "old-mix" and half water by volume.

I will change the res again (with a newly made solution) when the new airstones and h202 arrive, and will follow your above advice.
Hopefully it will recover.

Thanks for taking the time to try and help me out :)

The pathogens may lead to root issues. Not so much spoil the nutrients. But can affect the plants ability to take up nutrients and water.

 

[dcb6390]

The pathogens may lead to root issues. Not so much spoil the nutrients. But can affect the plants ability to take up nutrients and water.

I am now concerned with the healthy one....it has been growing great, but since this morning I have noticed slightly browned roots, and a slight wilt of the leaves.
Is this the start of root rot for this plant??
The roots aren't too discoloured and could easily just be natural, but given the issues with other plant I want to be overly-cautious and check. The leaves don't lookely overly "sad" but it is a stark contrast to previously, where they were parying upwards and reaching to the light....

 

[Aqua Man]

I am now concerned with the healthy one....it has been growing great, but since this morning I have noticed slightly browned roots, and a slight wilt of the leaves.
Is this the start of root rot for this plant??
The roots aren't too discoloured and could easily just be natural, but given the issues with other plant I want to be overly-cautious and check. The leaves don't lookely overly "sad" but it is a stark contrast to previously, where they were parying upwards and reaching to the light....

I don't see any rot bit. Are they slimey? It could be staining, do you use cal mag?

I have not used those nutes so is that what the directions say for mixing? I would use the same ratios as directed just at a lower concentration.

How are the plants looking?

Are you running sterile or live? You will need to do one of them or the risk of infection is only a matter of time most likely

 

[LittleDabbie]

Whats the water temp do you know?

 

[Ph 007]

I clone my clones in a clonner sorta same thing,
my tap water is 0.60 ppm thats under 100ppm / 0.2 e.c

I start my clones off on just tap water ph to 5.8-6.2

Then when they got roots about 2/3 inch long, I add a&b hydrophinoc nutrients to take water to 0.4 e.c That's 200ppm and they grow very well on this and 2/4 days later the e.c will of dropped from 0.4 e.c to 0.3 e.c then i bang them on 0.6e.c that's just 300ppm no calmag even know my water is soft , just a&b
The a&b nutrinats i use tho it's not fo hard water they for soft well they universal for.soft and slightly hard.
You should use nutrinats for hard if your your already

My water temp is usually a out 19/20c when I change my rez, but about 1 hour later the red two is like 22c and ually hits 23c like you and it don't really ever rise anymore and they grow very well

When I start on 0.4/0.6 e.c before roots show I get slow growth yellowing plant get defficciantcys and roots grow very slow and plant also,


I'm not sure with your water harness how feed will work but if was you I'd just add a&b to take your tap water to 0.6e.c that's 300 ppm. Ph5.8 let ph drift to 6.0-6.2 then reset back to 5.8

If above don't work if then try just plain water for 2 days to see how the respond to that , they might be fine on just your tap water for another week ,


Also if it helps I then take clone out my machine that was on just 0.4/0
6 e.c I put into coco and then I need calmag and feed quote tight difference e.c now or if I don't do this they grow like shit.

So from clone machine was in no calmag just a&b on 0.4/0.6 e.c
To coco
I feed
I take my tap water to 0.4 e.c with calmag, then I add a&b and take my e.c to 1.0 ph 6.0
So they gone from 0.4 to coco to 1.0e.c quite a jump, but if I don't do this it don't work, I look at it now that the ate on 0.6 still but with added calmag at 0.4 for the coco use not the plant
If your getting me man lol