Help With My Setup!

[devastating]

Hello! Semi-newbie here.

Haven't put a single seed in the ground yet, but I spent pretty much the last 3 months stuck inside reading and writing down what I've learned. (So feel free to throw jargon at me!). I'm hoping that all the pre-work I've been doing will pay off for setting up an easy & consistent grow that doesn't have me emptying my bank for useless products.

Goals: 3-4 plants, 4x4, 200+ g's (or maybe 2-3 in a 3x3, read more below)

Here's what I'm still debating:

Seeds -- Go big or go home? Really intrigued by some of these high thc med breeders like JinxProof and Anesia seeds. Would these be bad for my first setup? Additionally, if I packed my space with autos, would I fare better consistency wise than with 4 photos?

Medium -- Canna-Coco or fox farm?

Lights -- Trying to spend around 200-250$. So, I am leaning towards 600w mh/hps. Do y'all suggest sourcing parts or just throwing for a full kit? For either answer, what is a good online source these days? I'm finding some brands like vivosun and hydrocrunch, but they seem sketchy for the consistency I'm trying to achieve.
The appeal of LEDs is there for me, but price and confusing tech is keeping me back. I am interested in diy boards (from places like alibaba) but am very put off by building heat-sink setups etc. (Unless someone knows a more simple diy process). For supplemental lighting, what are some good, relatively cheap brands?
Also had my eye on this site: https://www.growlights.ca/growlights/grow-light-kits.html

Size -- I like the roominess of a 4x4, but if it won't suit my light budget, then maybe 3x3. What're your thoughts?

Nutes/amendments -- My local store has TONS of products. Particularly interested in their GH and Heavy16 stuff. But also been looking at MaxiSeries and CannaBoost. The A/B sometimes confuses me. Clarity on what combo of products, and sub-products, are best out of these companies (or others y'all suggest) would help me out a ton. Should I put in worm castings and perlite to the start medium? And when is the best time to start adding calmag and/or epsom salt ?

Feeding schedule -- So much info out there! Any good summarised version detailing veg & flower schedules week by week? I plan to add bat guano and seaweed extract, but not sure when and how frequently.

Bottom line: I understand the general rule that mo'money=mo'weed (generally), but cheaper is better for me, not going for cup winners! More looking at consistent and easy to obtain materials.

If you read all this, thank you! If you can help me with any of these questions, thanks x10!
Let's hope my first grow isn't... devastating

 

[Buddernugz]

Ok! Welcome to the fold my friend...... first and for most where are you located #2 does the 250$ cover everything? Because seeds will be about half that at least...if u got some beans laying around or have friend ask if they have some you’d be supersized how good swag bag seeds turnout grown indoors night and day Difference no reason to spend money if you can save it.
Also your lights gonna cost you about a buck 50 so that’s most of your budget right their I strongly suggest mars hydro ts1000 or ts600 the 1000 will cover 2.5x2.5 it’s about 150-180 the ts600 covers 2x2 and is 80-90$ don’t cheep out on lights trust me buy once cry once...
your going to NEED a ph pen and ppm meter that’s a must no way around it if u want any sorta decent yeil... you don’t need 100$ pens I strongly suggest the cheep Hanna models the ones that calibrate at 4-7-10ph very simple to re calibrate stay away from cheep ones that calibrate at 6.89 their pos and apita. ppm pens keep their calibration a very long time also suggest Hanna 30-40$ range so that’s 90$ for a light 80$ for ph and ppm pens (do not get cheep off brand ones they are cheap for a reason you will have to calibrate it every day and calibration fluid cost money don’t do it I’ve been there and learn my lesson) so that’s 180$ total for the pens and the light now whether you go dirt or cocoa or hempy bucket.....Dirt I don’t care how hot it is whether it’s Foxfarm ocean forest happy frog or some $40 bag of dirt at some point halfway through veg you’re going to need to buy fertilizer there’s no way around it unless you drop 60 $70 and super soil which is basically water only you’re gonna need no dirt I don’t care how hot it is whether it’s Foxfarm ocean forest happy frog or some $40 bag of dirt at some point halfway through veg you’re going to need to buy fertilizer there’s no way around it unless you drop 60 $70 in super soil which is basically water only you’re gonna need to buy fertilizer on a sidenote you really have to know when and how much to water super soil too much she’ll kill the microbes not enough you’ll kill the microbes there’s no middle ground....Coco explosive growth known to give extremely high heels on in a dialed in environment that’s why all the pros use it but you’re going to need Calmac 1 quart will last you a whole grow many longer depending on your water (This is where your ppm meter comes in handy if your tapwater is 200 or 250 ppm’s that’s perfect I wouldn’t use it unless you absolutely have to I use ro water so I need it) $20-$40..... Now you’re gonna need grow fertilizer $40-$50 and flower fertilizer $40-$50.... Then there’s a simple one Also known for explosive growth and extremely high yield and really small pots The hempy bucket.... I’ve done this in the past and I have a flower room with all the empty buckets right now basically what it is you take a container drill a half inch hole exactly 2 inches up from the bottom boom that’s it now once you have your hole drilled Time to add your growing medium I suggest 100% chunky perlite and that’s it your plant will grow through that you water it once a day until the roots hit the bottom of the rez what’s the roots at the bottom of the razz do not water until that bucket is bone dry if you water too much and keep the rest for 24 seven you find out the hard way just like I did how much of a pain in the ass infected route zones are to fix empty buckets are simple as it gets and you get explosive growth equal to deepwater culture grows you’re still gonna need grow notes in bloom notes no matter what you’re growing so I hate to be a party pooper no disrespect intended but if you want to do this right double your budget

 

[Kraken.headz]

I like your plan, and you've obviously done some research. So far as seed selection goes, pick what appeals you. I don't think that modern hybrids from any one breeder are going to be significantly more difficult to grow than any other.
I love that you already have a footprint and a projected yield, and that they're well within reasonable expectations. My advice would be...
Go with the 4x4 space. You'll find quickly that inches count. Personally, I'd encourage you to consider CMH/LEC lighting. The 600w light may be less expensive up front, but I tell everyone
"A 400w in an 80 degree garden will yield you better results than a 1000w in a 90 degree garden".
There are effective, quality LED'S, but they aren't my personal preference.
In regards to substrate and fertilizer, I've never been one to hide my preference. These days, it's Canna A+B for me, with once a week rinses with cal-mag and orca. I hustled hydro products for over a decade. I firmly believe that they're mainly a placebo. I would recommend to a first time grower this formula...
Pure, unadulterated canna coco, and their Coco A+B. Invest in a decent ph pen. I would suggest RO filtration. Finish in a container no larger than 5 gallons inside. Be prepared for "the stretch". First time grower almost always let their plants get too big, which not only burns the top of the plants, but shades the bottom.
You've come to a fine place for advice. There are plenty of experienced, compassionate veteran growers on here.

 

[Buddernugz]

so You just use ro water and a and b no cal mag untill you flush every 7 days?

I like your plan, and you've obviously done some research. So far as seed selection goes, pick what appeals you. I don't think that modern hybrids from any one breeder are going to be significantly more difficult to grow than any other.
I love that you already have a footprint and a projected yield, and that they're well within reasonable expectations. My advice would be...
Go with the 4x4 space. You'll find quickly that inches count. Personally, I'd encourage you to consider CMH/LEC lighting. The 600w light may be less expensive up front, but I tell everyone
"A 400w in an 80 degree garden will yield you better results than a 1000w in a 90 degree garden".
There are effective, quality LED'S, but they aren't my personal preference.
In regards to substrate and fertilizer, I've never been one to hide my preference. These days, it's Canna A+B for me, with once a week rinses with cal-mag and orca. I hustled hydro products for over a decade. I firmly believe that they're mainly a placebo. I would recommend to a first time grower this formula...
Pure, unadulterated canna coco, and their Coco A+B. Invest in a decent ph pen. I would suggest RO filtration. Finish in a container no larger than 5 gallons inside. Be prepared for "the stretch". First time grower almost always let their plants get too big, which not only burns the top of the plants, but shades the bottom.
You've come to a fine place for advice. There are plenty of experienced, compassionate veteran growers on here.
[/QUOT

 

[Kraken.headz]

I'm not in pure coco, and I actually use their Substra series. But it is 85%+ coco. The need for supplemental Cal-Mag in a buffered coco with coco specific nutrients is way overstated.
Oftentimes the issue isn't lack of Cal-Mag in your solution or medium, but actually inability of the plant to transport certain elements due to improper watering. I should disclose that my RO system does have a remineralization chamber, but it only adds about 20 ppm, and does more to help stabilize pH than anything else. I did, for years, add cal-mag to every watering, and just now with this crop took the leap of faith and followed my canna reps advice, and I know what I'll be doing moving forwards

 

[jcmn2020]

Pm me bud. I’ll give you the run down of my 2x4 setup but just in your setup before seeds you’re going to look at around 3-500
I’m pushing about 4oz/plant the next 2 plants should be more.

 

[devastating]

Ok! Welcome to the fold my friend...... first and for most where are you located #2 does the 250$ cover everything? Because seeds will be about half that at least...if u got some beans laying around or have friend ask if they have some you’d be supersized how good swag bag seeds turnout grown indoors night and day Difference no reason to spend money if you can save it.
Also your lights gonna cost you about a buck 50 so that’s most of your budget right their I strongly suggest mars hydro ts1000 or ts600 the 1000 will cover 2.5x2.5 it’s about 150-180 the ts600 covers 2x2 and is 80-90$ don’t cheep out on lights trust me buy once cry once...
your going to NEED a ph pen and ppm meter that’s a must no way around it if u want any sorta decent yeil... you don’t need 100$ pens I strongly suggest the cheep Hanna models the ones that calibrate at 4-7-10ph very simple to re calibrate stay away from cheep ones that calibrate at 6.89 their pos and apita. ppm pens keep their calibration a very long time also suggest Hanna 30-40$ range so that’s 90$ for a light 80$ for ph and ppm pens (do not get cheep off brand ones they are cheap for a reason you will have to calibrate it every day and calibration fluid cost money don’t do it I’ve been there and learn my lesson) so that’s 180$ total for the pens and the light now whether you go dirt or cocoa or hempy bucket.....Dirt I don’t care how hot it is whether it’s Foxfarm ocean forest happy frog or some $40 bag of dirt at some point halfway through veg you’re going to need to buy fertilizer there’s no way around it unless you drop 60 $70 and super soil which is basically water only you’re gonna need no dirt I don’t care how hot it is whether it’s Foxfarm ocean forest happy frog or some $40 bag of dirt at some point halfway through veg you’re going to need to buy fertilizer there’s no way around it unless you drop 60 $70 in super soil which is basically water only you’re gonna need to buy fertilizer on a sidenote you really have to know when and how much to water super soil too much she’ll kill the microbes not enough you’ll kill the microbes there’s no middle ground....Coco explosive growth known to give extremely high heels on in a dialed in environment that’s why all the pros use it but you’re going to need Calmac 1 quart will last you a whole grow many longer depending on your water (This is where your ppm meter comes in handy if your tapwater is 200 or 250 ppm’s that’s perfect I wouldn’t use it unless you absolutely have to I use ro water so I need it) $20-$40..... Now you’re gonna need grow fertilizer $40-$50 and flower fertilizer $40-$50.... Then there’s a simple one Also known for explosive growth and extremely high yield and really small pots The hempy bucket.... I’ve done this in the past and I have a flower room with all the empty buckets right now basically what it is you take a container drill a half inch hole exactly 2 inches up from the bottom boom that’s it now once you have your hole drilled Time to add your growing medium I suggest 100% chunky perlite and that’s it your plant will grow through that you water it once a day until the roots hit the bottom of the rez what’s the roots at the bottom of the razz do not water until that bucket is bone dry if you water too much and keep the rest for 24 seven you find out the hard way just like I did how much of a pain in the ass infected route zones are to fix empty buckets are simple as it gets and you get explosive growth equal to deepwater culture grows you’re still gonna need grow notes in bloom notes no matter what you’re growing so I hate to be a party pooper no disrespect intended but if you want to do this right double your budget

My budget for lights alone is 200-250$. Overall I'm sure I'll be spending much more.

Thanks for the info!

 

[devastating]

I like your plan, and you've obviously done some research. So far as seed selection goes, pick what appeals you. I don't think that modern hybrids from any one breeder are going to be significantly more difficult to grow than any other.
I love that you already have a footprint and a projected yield, and that they're well within reasonable expectations. My advice would be...
Go with the 4x4 space. You'll find quickly that inches count. Personally, I'd encourage you to consider CMH/LEC lighting. The 600w light may be less expensive up front, but I tell everyone
"A 400w in an 80 degree garden will yield you better results than a 1000w in a 90 degree garden".
There are effective, quality LED'S, but they aren't my personal preference.
In regards to substrate and fertilizer, I've never been one to hide my preference. These days, it's Canna A+B for me, with once a week rinses with cal-mag and orca. I hustled hydro products for over a decade. I firmly believe that they're mainly a placebo. I would recommend to a first time grower this formula...
Pure, unadulterated canna coco, and their Coco A+B. Invest in a decent ph pen. I would suggest RO filtration. Finish in a container no larger than 5 gallons inside. Be prepared for "the stretch". First time grower almost always let their plants get too big, which not only burns the top of the plants, but shades the bottom.
You've come to a fine place for advice. There are plenty of experienced, compassionate veteran growers on here.

Great info, thanks!
Would you mind directing me to some CMH/LEC sources? I was interested in those systems but couldn't find something I felt was reputable, besides just sourcing parts.
What's your feeding schedule/proportions for the A/B? Thanks again!

 

[Kraken.headz]

Consider the Phantom 315 kit. It's the most reliable unit I know of with a remote ballast, and can be had for a fair price. Growers house also has some nice configurations that could be had for around $300.
As far as my fertigation goes, in my current space I'm using 5 gallon pots, watering every other day. Again, I'm not in pure coco. With pure coco you will ideally size your container so that you can water daily. Admittedly, it's been a few years since I used their coco series, but I would start at about 4ml/gallon, and peak at 10ml/gallon. If you really hit the sweet spot, as far as container size, you'll be happy at 8-10ml/gallon during aggressive growth. I do a feed, feed, rinse type of thing. I mentioned earlier that I do my rinse with cal-mag and a biological.
A short word on watering:
The simplest and most useful advice I can give on watering coco is to always water to run off. Make sure the plants don't sit in that run off water. When you have your pot fully saturated, give it a little lift and feel the weight. When it dries to half that weight, it's time to water again.
If your substrate gets too dry, DO NOT water with fertilizer. Treat it as a rinse, and use a mild dose of cal-mag.
Damn, I guess that turned out to be a not so short word. We're here for you, homie.

 

[devastating]

Consider the Phantom 315 kit. It's the most reliable unit I know of with a remote ballast, and can be had for a fair price. Growers house also has some nice configurations that could be had for around $300.
As far as my fertigation goes, in my current space I'm using 5 gallon pots, watering every other day. Again, I'm not in pure coco. With pure coco you will ideally size your container so that you can water daily. Admittedly, it's been a few years since I used their coco series, but I would start at about 4ml/gallon, and peak at 10ml/gallon. If you really hit the sweet spot, as far as container size, you'll be happy at 8-10ml/gallon during aggressive growth. I do a feed, feed, rinse type of thing. I mentioned earlier that I do my rinse with cal-mag and a biological.
A short word on watering:
The simplest and most useful advice I can give on watering coco is to always water to run off. Make sure the plants don't sit in that run off water. When you have your pot fully saturated, give it a little lift and feel the weight. When it dries to half that weight, it's time to water again.
If your substrate gets too dry, DO NOT water with fertilizer. Treat it as a rinse, and use a mild dose of cal-mag.
Damn, I guess that turned out to be a not so short word. We're here for you, homie.

Very helpful answer. Words are not our enemies so write away!
I have purchased some 5gals already with plenty of runoff ability with trays. I also poked some holes in the side for aeration? Idk if this was a bad move, but nothing some tape can't fix lol!
So if I'm understanding the schedule right, it's more of a consistent A/B solution feed. Example (if this sounds right): Day "1" (Feed), Day "2" (No water), Day "3" (Feed), Day "4" (No water), Day "5" (Rinse)? Obviously it'll be tweaked a bit, but just trying to wrap my head around the daily/weekly needs.

 

[Kraken.headz]

You got it, equal ratios of a&b. You won't have any issue with your pots, but in future consider fabric pots (smart pots are my jam). Canna does have feeding schedules, if you pick up your bottles in a brick and mortar store, they'll probably have paper copies. If they'll let you, grab a few. You'll inevitably drench them and make them unreadable. They'll give you a range of effective dosages. The more often you water, the milder you should mix the solution.

 

[devastating]

You got it, equal ratios of a&b. You won't have any issue with your pots, but in future consider fabric pots (smart pots are my jam). Canna does have feeding schedules, if you pick up your bottles in a brick and mortar store, they'll probably have paper copies. If they'll let you, grab a few. You'll inevitably drench them and make them unreadable. They'll give you a range of effective dosages. The more often you water, the milder you should mix the solution.

Probably junk but what're your thoughts on these two puppies? I think the price difference is in the ballast quality.

VIVOSUN 315W Ceramic Metal Halide CMH/CDM Grow Light Kit

PROFESSIONAL RESULTS MADE EASY: These CMH kits run significantly cooler compared to conventional lighting setups and do not need to be cooled with ducting and fan; extra efficient with energy not lost to heat HIGH-TECH BALLAST: Cutting-edge adjustable ballast features advanced low-frequency...

vivosun.com

 

[devastating]

Or this fella: https://www.amazon.com/Prism-Lighti...awn-garden&sprefix=cmh,lawngarden,293&sr=1-11

I hate amazon with a burning passion but the price is pretty great (and Phillips bulb!).

 

[Kraken.headz]

Looks like that second link is Growers houses Amazon page. I would personally prefer that over the other, because
A) They're more likely to honor warranty issues, and
B) You could upgrade your reflector after a crop or two, and lastly
C) it has the Philip's bulb

For a slightly higher price, they have a very similar assembly on their website with a little "Neutron" hood that is pretty nice

 

[devastating]

Looks like that second link is Growers houses Amazon page. I would personally prefer that over the other, because
A) They're more likely to honor warranty issues, and
B) You could upgrade your reflector after a crop or two, and lastly
C) it has the Philip's bulb

For a slightly higher price, they have a very similar assembly on their website with a little "Neutron" hood that is pretty nice

Perfect, thanks!

One last thing I forgot. Germination! Paper towel? Straight in the ground? Transplant pot? Ideally I want to just throw the seed in my 5gal and be done with it but I know people that swear by the paper towel.

 

[Kraken.headz]

Really, whatever you feel comfortable with. I start seeds in 3" Jiffy Pots.
I would advise against going straight into your final container. What you want to avoid is your substrate taking too long to dry, which it will if the roots aren't quite yet up to the task. Watering drives growth, especially in something as porous as coco. I would at least do something like plug>1 gallon nursery pot >final pot.

 

[MHippie]

Really, whatever you feel comfortable with. I start seeds in 3" Jiffy Pots.
I would advise against going straight into your final container. What you want to avoid is your substrate taking too long to dry, which it will if the roots aren't quite yet up to the task. Watering drives growth, especially in something as porous as coco. I would at least do something like plug>1 gallon nursery pot >final pot.

Best advise so far. Until you get your mommas up... seed to dirt is the best way to go imo. And if you can use the sun safely, do it. Skip the MH and HPS set up (too much damned heat) and opt for the high intensity flouros for nighttime veg. Definitely do not go to your final grow container in the beginning. It's a progressive transplant method they are describing which is AWESOME for root maintenance. And FYI? I've got a White Widow plant (1) that will take up an entire 4x4 grow area :)

 

[devastating]

Best advise so far. Until you get your mommas up... seed to dirt is the best way to go imo. And if you can use the sun safely, do it. Skip the MH and HPS set up (too much damned heat) and opt for the high intensity flouros for nighttime veg. Definitely do not go to your final grow container in the beginning. It's a progressive transplant method they are describing which is AWESOME for root maintenance. And FYI? I've got a White Widow plant (1) that will take up an entire 4x4 grow area :)

Hope your widow hits a pound! I'm interested in doing some single plant grows when I get the experience but for now I'm going to grow 2-3 strains to see what I like.

Would you mind explaining "nighttime veg?". Or do you mean use the sun while I can and then transfer inside using the flouros.

I'm in Santa Barbara so the sun will be loud and proud for at least a couple more months. I do like the idea of using the sun until I can lock them in with the CMH. I also feel like the transition might shock the plants, probably not too bad, but maybe I'm wrong.

Edit: or can I do sun/flouros all the way through?

 

[MHippie]

Hope your widow hits a pound! I'm interested in doing some single plant grows when I get the experience but for now I'm going to grow 2-3 strains to see what I like.

Would you mind explaining "nighttime veg?". Or do you mean use the sun while I can and then transfer inside using the flouros.

I'm in Santa Barbara so the sun will be loud and proud for at least a couple more months. I do like the idea of using the sun until I can lock them in with the CMH. I also feel like the transition might shock the plants, probably not too bad, but maybe I'm wrong.

Edit: or can I do sun/flouros all the way through?

Absolutely correct: Would you mind explaining "nighttime veg?". Or do you mean use the sun while I can and then transfer inside using the flouros.

Incorrect :) : I also feel like the transition might shock the plants, probably not too bad, but maybe I'm wrong.

Absolutely: Edit: or can I do sun/flouros all the way through? This is 2 weeks into flowering.

 

[devastating]

Absolutely correct: Would you mind explaining "nighttime veg?". Or do you mean use the sun while I can and then transfer inside using the flouros.

Incorrect :) : I also feel like the transition might shock the plants, probably not too bad, but maybe I'm wrong.

Absolutely: Edit: or can I do sun/flouros all the way through? This is 2 weeks into flowering.

WONDERFUL.

Ok, hear me out on this. I had this dream about an open top self-built tent with diamond mylar walls. The lamp would be covered (to avoid weather, but box still open at the top around the light) and cooled at night and be taken away during the day for that good ol sun. It would reduce my fan/exhaust costs maybe?

Maybe it was just a fever dream. Can you tell I've been thinking about weed a lot lately? Can't wait to get some seeds finally planted...