Here's a good read about nutrient balance

[Aqua Man]

Lol that's the info that trickled down to me, but I also noticed a faster budset and healthier looking plants in stretch by frontloading P a few days to a week before transition.
But im kinda over saying this or that works or it doesn't... it's just not worth the endless debates that it often causes on here. I'm just doing what I do these days.

With so much on your plate I don't blame ya.... much bigger fish to fry but will be worth it

 

[MIMedGrower]

Lol that's the info that trickled down to me, but I also noticed a faster budset and healthier looking plants in stretch by frontloading P a few days to a week before transition.
But im kinda over saying this or that works or it doesn't... it's just not worth the endless debates that it often causes on here. I'm just doing what I do these days.

but it was worth some discussion. I reached out to dyna grow and others about it anyway.

But the growing at least 6 weeks from seed compared to 2-4 week clones could make quite a difference in stored P. And i use t-5’s and grow slow and steady as opposed to under hid or new led which puts a bigger load on the plants. Combined with shorter veg times...

I think i learned something.

 

[Aqua Man]

but it was worth some discussion. I reached out to dyna grow and others about it anyway.

But the growing at least 6 weeks from seed compared to 2-4 week clones could make quite a difference in stored P. And i use t-5’s and grow slow and steady as opposed to under hid or new led which puts a bigger load on the plants. Combined with shorter veg times...

I think i learned something.

Me too... always an explanation as to why ppl have different results.... the PITA is figuring it out lol

 

[Flexnerb]

Good article. And more information showing cannabis never needs extra phosphorous. Not even as a bloom signal. It just doesn't utilize it.


Advanced nutrients and dyna grow ran tests that prove the same but they still sell the bloom bottles. Lol.


They hope no one actually reads their own tests? ;-)

How many plants on earth need P? Seems as if the few plants that we dont eat for seed dont really need P until seed production part of their lives. Seems loke most plants store it til they need for this exact purpose. Makes sense survival is key. Bring on the next generations!

 

[Flexnerb]

Thats what I took from it. I just wonder how using RO vs tap water affects those ratios, if you don’t know what’s in your water of course.

my tap water ppm is only 76, and it leaves a white residue on bathroom fixtures after a few showers, so I assume it’s mostly calcium and sodium. I just want to adjust feeding with the tap ppm in mind.

ive got an RO system installed but I’ve been advised to not use it and just use the tap

A water test can sometimes depending where you live can be free. Call the city. If you live out of town might still be able to find a place to do it cheap or free maybe. Im not sure if most states do this...lok into it...a test in my state i think is around 80$. Theres gotta be a "best time of year" to get it. In winter depending where you live itll be a higher ppm as no rainfall in my state. Yours is different. Then i coulda swore someone on here said there water ppm goes up after rainfall. The person stated that it was because the water coming out of the mountains runs through ca depsoits as its coming down. So ppm goes up during rainy days. Forgot who said that...oh well...

 

[Flexnerb]

Imo P a week before flip a P boost helps if indoors.... they generally don't get as much veg time or the sudden change in light duration which from my understanding causes a bit high demand for P at flip so getting a it a boost a week early I feel will benefit.

Also feel (no proof) P after stretch is useless and K, Ca and Mg rario are extremely important the entire grow. As these are the ones that usually (along with P) are responsible for nutrient imbalances that cause deficiencies.

I think the article states too much P causes mn iron and zinc def. I know its three of the micros...P imbalances more than they are saying. I think what you're sayin has lots of merit for sure. I used too much bloom nutes and my tomatoes are recovering. Lol...shit! P messes with alot. Im sttill trying to find something scientific that explains how P screws with other elements we use. Most i find it just talks about how it messes with micros....lol

 

[Aqua Man]

I think the article states too much P causes mn iron and zinc def. I know its three of the micros...P imbalances more than they are saying. I think what you're sayin has lots of merit for sure. I used too much bloom nutes and my tomatoes are recovering. Lol...shit! P messes with alot. Im sttill trying to find something scientific that explains how P screws with other elements we use. Most i find it just talks about how it messes with micros....lol

Like this?

 

[Flexnerb]

Like this?

I read that P is the "jetpack" for N? When i see mulders chart theres nothing there that signifies that...makes me think wtf?

In my searches a few years ago i found a P study on cannabis..its on my iphone4s. Ill charge it and take pics. It has some graphs going out 15 30 45 days then harvest. I believe its plant sample based tests. It graphs out how much of eavh npk and a few micros are utilized by the plant. Absorbed by the plant

 

[Aqua Man]

I read that P is the "jetpack" for N? When i see mulders chart theres nothing there that signifies that...makes me think wtf?

Not that I'm aware of... maybe have a source I can look at?

 

[Aqua Man]

if you look and notice excess Ca, Mg and N all reduce availability of K.... what almost all cal mag has and imo calls for far to much on the directions? Cal mag.... add to that the high P bloom boosters and wonder why we often see a K deficiency right after stretch?

Hmmmm

 

[Flexnerb]

Not that I'm aware of... maybe have a source I can look at?

The claim was that P powers N through the plant. From what point to where im not sure....i cant remember the literature i was reading..is ATP created with P as the center molocule?

 

[Aqua Man]

The claim was that P powers N through the plant. From what point to where im not sure....i cant remember the literature i was reading..is ATP created with P as the center molocule?

Ok that's a bit different... has to do with how the plant uses it after its taken up.

 

[Flexnerb]

if you look and notice excess Ca, Mg and N all reduce availability of K.... what almost all cal mag has and imo calls for far to much on the directions? Cal mag.... add to that the high P bloom boosters and wonder why we often see a K deficiency right after stretch?

Hmmmm

Im going back to mixing tap with my RO. My caco3 was 360. Ill just mix a 3.5:1 ratio. If i need more i can add more or use a tiny bit of cal mg....too much ca mg gets used i think...i really think they outta start selling smaller bottles of nutes...its fucking ridiculous we put too much in if following directions. Cut your ml per gal in half is a good start! Im not familiar with the K def part from the over usenof P bloom boosters...bought one a few years ago and it just sits there.....never really used it on my tomatoes...in fact it moght have been the culprit for my K def i had 2 years ago...lol...

 

[Flexnerb]

Ok that's a bit different... has to do with how the plant uses it after its taken up.

On another forum i was told N moves Ca into the roots then into the plant...is this true?

They outta have a chart that shows what elements move other elements.

 

[Aqua Man]

On another forum i was told N moves Ca into the roots then into the plant...is this true?

They outta have a chart that shows what elements move other elements.

Differs between plants bit there is a fair bit of info out and about generally on cannabis. Of course it varies a bit depending on strain.

 

[Dirtbag]

but it was worth some discussion. I reached out to dyna grow and others about it anyway.

But the growing at least 6 weeks from seed compared to 2-4 week clones could make quite a difference in stored P. And i use t-5’s and grow slow and steady as opposed to under hid or new led which puts a bigger load on the plants. Combined with shorter veg times...

I think i learned something.

I grow pretty similar most of the time and Veg under T5, then step up to 400wMH, then 750, finally 1k, and from root to flip can be anywhere from 4-5 weeks with clones. 6 or so with seeds. I count my Veg times for clones when the plants go under the HID, under T5's I call it preveg for root development.
Also I don't know that the P needs to be built up for very long to stress the plant, but im not really up to date on this stuff. Most of the growing methods that use that steering technique are hydroponic soiless type systems like coco and rockwool that uptake nutrients instantly. The way it was explained to me is the P acts as a stressor for the plant which causes it to start flowering faster once the light cycle is reduced.

But again, I'm just regurgitating things ive heard from people I trust. I don't do a ton of reading up and research into it myself lately so I could be wrong about everything. Which is why I said I tend to stay away from debating techniques or defending why i do what i do these days. I don't know what's right or wrong any more than any of us do, I just know I'm happy with what I do and it works for me lol.

 

[Moshmen]

Great thread !

 

[mysticepipedon]

This instantly caught my eye, since I'm now dealing with LEDs:

Phosphorus is also the primary contributor to plant stretch. Too much P will lead to excessive internode elongation and tall plants. That’s why it’s important to limit excessive P applications.

I envy the agronomy researchers who will be able to experiment freely with cannabis, any strains or crosses they choose, legally. Also, when the fuck are they going to retire that weed farm in Mississippi, that belts 60s era bogus?

 

[Homesteader]

Excess anything in soil is no good but neither is having enough. I grow dahlias in my free time and wouldn't think of growing without a good amount of Phos. What goes in to the bags comes out. Phos is a necessity for building healthy soil microbe populations as well.

 

[SSgrower]

My farmer friend say's "side lights" $50.00 to help plants stay squat, grow sideways. He's at 4 weeks and lookin good.