Here's a real stumper..SUN BURN .I guess...what do you think about this issue

[chazbolin]

Nice pics Hippy! You noted that the iGrow lamp is 6" longer than the IG. What your images tend to illustrate is that the longer lamp is not putting out the intensity of the shorter IG lamp. The other thing to consider is that the iGrow is using a painted reflector with very low reflectivity. The hood is larger which would imply greater surface reflectivity over a larger area but that is not the case since light doesn't bend. Keep in mind that 50% of the lamps surface is facing backwards into the reflector and as the lamps run parallel the light being emitted between the glass tubes needs to be directed towards the canopy. This is not being done with the iGrow and energy is being lost. The IG reflectors look like a mirror and you don't see the lamps reflection in any of these images. That is important. It means the lamps energy is making it to the canopy. If you were take the IG light down and stand in front of it, or lay under it and look up, only than would you see the lamps reflection. This is as a plant would see that energy at the canopy.

While the plants don't care what you paid for a light, your wallet/yield ratio will. iGrow charges $1,200 for that fixture and IG charges $795 for theirs. Let's see who out yields the other and you'll be able to determine which was the better value and perhaps more importantly, establish it for those who have yet to take the financial leap which you have done.

 

[Capulator]

I still see crispy leaves under your induction light. And thrip or spider mite damage (hard to tell from the pic). Also it looks like too many plants crammed in there.

 

[Max Frost]

Not only that, Chaz...but don't forget to factor in that the iGrow only offers half the warranty as the IndaGro does too! Or at least that was the case when I was doing my due diligence on them before purchasing the IG. I remember thinking..."This can't be right! It's almost twice the price with only half the warranty!" I actually went back and scoured their advertising trying to determine what I "MUST" be missing that would justify their price! I never found anything. :meh:

Another thing you may need to factor into your yield, Hippy, is the health of your plants. In the pics above, I'm seeing some issues. It's hard to tell from the pics, but to my eye, I'm seeing a moderately severe P def and possibly Cal/Mag as well. I also saw what looked to be some stippling on the leaves. Are you having any pest problems? IF I'm seeing things correctly, the defs could easily affect your yields. Not saying that's the case here, I just thought it was a good opportunity to point out that the light is only one piece of the overall puzzle.

 

[The Hippy]

Hey guys
No there are zero bugs of any kind. Not even a fly. Definitely no spider mites. thank goodness for that. I keep that area very tightly closed off. Never had any pest problems

As far as the cal mag thing goes, I don't know. I use Grotex Cal/mag in every batch of nutrient I mix. I use the recommended dose from the bottle. would I need to be using more than that?
There are a few crispy leaves from where they touched the bulbs. Otherwise they are mostly green.
Yes I agree theses I grows are way over priced. They do hsve a much more solid frame than the Inda gro's. The box they are made of are pretty rigid. compared to the inda gro box it is a more rugged fixture. The reflectors are solid steel and the whole thing is pretty weighty. I'm not sure if it needs to be that heavy. But I guess if you were moving them or in a commercial situation that would be better. They are put together very well actually. I agree with Chaz, I feel they should have used a mirror type finish instead of plain white paint. Not sure why they would go that route.
But for the extra they charge for the Igrow's, I'd say the extra ruggedness is not worth the extra $'s Yes much better build than the Ind gro box is, but also much heavier and harder to hang.
To me both lights could use a few tweaks in the construction end of things. But both are built well enough that they will give good service for years to come.

Yes there are a lot of plants in there. sometimes few to many. But the pics give the impression of too many plants. I am trying to keep a full canopy. I move them around a bit and place new flips near girls ready to come out. That way the light gets down there better. with anew flip being less busgy or full yet, that makes things between plants a little roomier for a week or so.
Kind of like thinning the forest between tree by planting a smaller less developed plant near a full one. It all seems to works out good that way. Plenty of top buds develop in this canopy usually.
These induction lights need to be close to the plants I've been told. So I get plants as close as I can. sometimes I get a bud witha burn on one side from touching.

 

[Capulator]

How much were those lights?

 

[KrakenBudz]

Get a infrared laser sight thermometer and hit the tops of the plants or all of them in fact.

To me it looks like heat. My friend had the same issues. hes rooms temp was no higher than 78 but the tops where getting up to 95.

Rosewill makes one for lets than 25$

 

[chazbolin]

How much were those lights?

Don't know what Hippy paid but the online price for an Inda-Gro Pro-420 lights is $795 ea.

The iGrow 400 online price is $1,200 ea. and you may add either the veg or bloom lamp for an additional $375 ea.

 

[The Hippy]

Hey Yall
Sorry I didn't respond here quicker, got busy over the holidays.
Well things are looking up for sure. It's seems that the wider spectrum provided by the Inda gro lights are improving things greatly.
All the plants are doing much better and budding bigger and more solid as well. Even plants that were almost ready to come out are finishing nicer. All plants are now getting the light from both the Igrow's and the Inda gro's as well. The light emitted from both type of lamps are crossing over each other and covering all plants.
So on their own the Igrows with the bloom lamps are not enough...repeat not enough and are not adequate. Maybe if you went odd and even with both the Igrow bloom and Igrow veg bulb they would be better than the bloom bulb alone.
Igrow is ( IMO ) selling a bullshit story suggesting you can use their bloom lamp as the only lamp for flowering. Yes they do work, but not well enough alone. They will give an inexperienced grower a nice crop, but to those used to growing with HPS.....not.
In my veg tent they are fine with only the vegging bulb. They do well as young plants before flipping and I would highly recommend the Igrow veg setup for that application. They grow great plants from seedling-clone-flip.
I would have to say that if I were doing it over or suggesting to someone else how to grow induction, I would tell them to go Inda gro. Less expensive, decent build quality, broader spectrum and the available pontoons make them the better choice.
Now because I'm running both brands I'm of course hoping the combo of both setups to work better than either one alone. We'll see about that though in a few months. I'll know better when pants have shown there whole cycle of flowering. But at this point I'm feeling better about my efforts. I'm hoping with the extra red spectrum thrown by the Igrows that they will give me the benefit of a big HPS lamp. I mean in flowering, we use the HPS for it's red spectrum to help enhance lush production. So why would that not be the same in induction growing? More red plus the broader spectrum of the Inda gro should add together for a killer combination. Pipe dream maybe, but we'll see if any of it holds true. Maybe I'm on to something. Combining both brands to make up a super system LOL.
Well of course none of this corrected my original issue of the the burn that was happening when flipping from induction to HPS lamps. That was fairly disastrous really. Burnt plants and low yields is simply not acceptable as was said here earlier in this thread. I can't offer any solution to that problem. Maybe someone else will try to grow with both systems and figure that out. I simply don't have enough knowledge or skills to fix that. I wish I could have gotten a handle on that but......NO.

Now I need some huge dollars for the pontoons. All that mumbo jumbo seems to make sense......I guess !!
Or should I say I'm hoping it make difference. I have seen a journal of Chaz's that seems to show it does help. Who else here is using them? Give me a link to your info or grow using the pontoons. I'd like to see/learn more.
I can't figure out why they cost so much though??? WTF are diodes and tin and a lith battery that much to produce?? Or are they the only game in town on that technology? Of course they are....hence the seemingly unfairly high cost of pontoons. Jeez for 700 bucks I can buy a lot of of things with much more of everything involved in the product than those....Like a gas lawn mower..big tv... fridge....tires...computer....watches....
and a whole bunch of other more sophisticated items like those for instance.
The pontoons must have been made by the royal family I guess...they get a pretty hourly wage.
Jeez where do these pontoon parts come from....Pluto
All this induction stuff seems way over priced. Especially Igrow....thank God they don't make pontoons or I'd have to sell my car to get some. The way it is now Ordering, shipping, tax blah blah blah for 3 units is gonna be like 2300 smackers...for freakin L.E.D.'s and diodes and tin and a battery and a few electronics WTF WTF WTF
Chaz ....please help me justify those things. I want em...but holy shit. Are they worth it bud????

I bought the used Inda gro's for 570 each with 4 moths use on them. Saved $1200 over new ones with ordering, shipping and tax. The Igrows here are 1300 tax in ( and you don't even get any pontoons or the option to buy them )...so....WAY TO MUCH.....Yes they last a long time but I just want to buy them, not mortgage them.

 

[Max Frost]

Hey Hippy, I'm using the Indagro 420 w/ the pontoon. You can see it at the grow links in my sig. I think you'll be happier if you do go with the pontoons. There's a pic in one of my threads where I'm running the pontoon alone, without the indagro being on. When I saw all the red light being produced, I was impressed! It puts out allot of energy in this critical area of the spectrum for flowering, IMHO. Best, -Max :wacky:

 

[The Hippy]

Hey Max
Thanks for the info. I'm gonna check out your stuff for sure.
Always good to hear from other's going thru the same basic setups. appreciate it !

 

[chazbolin]

Hey Hippy! Is that your room I see in this months HT?

 

[The Hippy]

Mine got en Himle
HeyChaz
No, not my grow....wish it was though....nice setup. Very nice plants too!
The Inda gro's are really making the ladies very happy. Everything is looking grrrrrreat so far.
I'm impressed with them as a company after speaking with them on the phone. Nice folks and very knowledgeable as well. Plus the lights work great !
Got the Pontoons on the way.......Ye Ha.

Blobs Away

 

[chazbolin]

YeHa! Glad to hear your going with the pontoons and they're on their way. So it WILL be your garden!

 

[The Hippy]

The boys at Igrow better fix something or the word will spread on how their bloom lamps don't cut the mustard. It has been obvious that adding the Inda-gro light has given the plants a whole new attitude. Much perkier and full. The Inda-gro's broader or just tune in better spectrum in a small amount of time is proving better in the flowering area.

 

[chazbolin]

Hey Hip! Hows the ladies lookin? Did they make a comeback?

 

[The Hippy]

Well nor sure as i'm still gettin some crap going on in my bloom tent that had the HPS lamp in it...
I'm getting seriously down by all this disaster man.

See these pics What the hell is going on. I stopped using Cal mag as I just use tap water. Th water in our area is of medium hardness locally. I was told only to use Cal/Mag in RO water. So I stopped using it.
I don't know if have a fungus or mold or what. My humidity reaches about 55% in lights off. I only have the two Induction lamps in there. One of each brand plus a set of pontoons. High temp is in the low 80's.
Anyway this may be tent related and I don't know what to do. I even considered throwing the tent away and getting a new one. Could it be powdery mildew. I see NO gray powder. but as the leaves die they seem to have a bit of whiteness maybe on the surface.
I'm simply at my wits end !
I get none of this in my veg tent at all.
I don't see any bugs in the soil, I use Pro-mix BX
I see no bugs anywhere or on any pants.

 

[The Hippy]

My plants seem not to be really dark green. Too light in color and too yellowy sort of. Not a deep lush green ....is that any clue?

 

[Seamaiden]

Too dark a green paired with those petioles definitely equals a P-. But I think you should get the Ca straightened out before you try to address P.

Well nor sure as i'm still gettin some crap going on in my bloom tent that had the HPS lamp in it...
I'm getting seriously down by all this disaster man.

See these pics What the hell is going on. I stopped using Cal mag as I just use tap water. Th water in our area is of medium hardness locally. I was told only to use Cal/Mag in RO water. So I stopped using it.

Oh Christ. That is a very advanced case of Ca- (calcium deficiency). Also, the petioles may be indicative of P- or poor uptake.

So, here's the thing with 'CalMag' (I'm beginning to hate that stuff) and 'hard' water. Just because your water is hard doesn't mean that it's got available minerals, such as calcium in it. Here's the other thing, let's say that water IS hard due to calcium. Chances are extremely high that the form is CaCO3. What's that? Calcium carbonate. What's the problem? The carbonate. Carbonates are extremely difficult to break apart, they require strong acids. So yeah, there may be lots of Ca in your water, but it may not be available to the plant. Get a calcium-only product and use that, but you're going to be chasing your tail given a few things, 1) the immobility of Ca, 2) stage of growth of your plants.

Ca can be delivered via either soil drench OR foliar application. Use a Ca-only product, then for Mg use Epsom salt (MgSO4, so you're getting a lot of sulfur in there, too), again either as a soil drench or foliar.

And before you do that, read the thread linked in my sig line. Use ALL the charts, not just the pretty ones. ;)

 

[The Hippy]

Thanks Seamaiden...Your always so nice in your offer to help.
I will see what I can get at the Grow shop today...here a few more pics

Could it be PM ..should I do a sulfur

bomb in there?

 

[The Hippy]

Well I feel so so so stupid.
I just rechecked my in and out PPM water reading. Get this Seamaiden....and I'm plenty embarrassed to even say them here. But in was 400 ppm and out was off my blue labs meter at over 1800......flashing it was. This was pure local tap water in with nothing added. I did not check the ph of the tap water in...just afterwards. Would that make a difference to the wildly high ppm coming out. The ph on the output run off was decent at 6.23.....sheeeeeeet !!!!!!
Off to grab a water conditioner for my nute and water mix. I saw the product today at the grow shop. On my way back tomorrow to grab some. I can't remember the products name. It is supposed to prevent mineral buildup such as the hard solids in out local water. My buddy at the grow shop feel it is lockup due to mineral and salt buildups as evidenced by my above readings..
I'd appreciate anyone thoughts on the above huge output reading.