Hmmm? Whats this.... new grower help?

[Aqua Man]

We always hear the ph but almost never the ppm’s.

Oh I agree. And they should have plenty of food in the soil with pots that size and the size of those plants. So tox makes absolute sense especially with added feeding. Some reason I'm just not seeing the tox that normally comes along before a lockout.

I absolutely agree with it. Just having a hard time seeing it.

 

[Aqua Man]

What is ffhf runoff when new? Cocoloco is over 2000. But that doesn't equal 2000 out of a bottle which would overfert anything.

Absolutely agree. And the ppm doesn't take into account whats available and unavailable to the plants as these are organic amendments

 

[Aqua Man]

I hope I don't come across as arguing because I'm not. I feel you guys a right. I'm just having a hard time seeing it. To me it feels like ph, availability issue. Organic nutes can be pretty high in the soil but not available for a few reasons, ph overwatering lack of microbes to break it down... I'm kinda leaning to something like that is what i see only because organic nutes are not the same as inorganic salts.

I'm probably wrong but idk if just can't help but feel like it's something related to that.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I hope I don't come across as arguing because I'm not. I feel you guys a right. I'm just having a hard time seeing it. To me it feels like ph, availability issue. Organic nutes can be pretty high in the soil but not available for a few reasons, ph overwatering lack of microbes to break it down... I'm kinda leaning to something like that is what i see only because organic nutes are not the same as inorganic salts.

I'm probably wrong but idk if just can't help but feel like it's something related to that.

You are overthinking the soil bud. When we feed ammended potting soil to early the nutrients build up and easily block the roots. Calcium is the largest molecule followed by phosphorous and then mag i believe. These are the likely ions that wont get through the blockage.

So we see spots, stripes or burns as the elements get locked out.

 

[Dirtbag]

Not at all Aqua. I love this kind of discussion, its productive. In one of the pics the plant looks dark to me, combined with burnt tips suggests the beginning of N tox from overfeeding and it's likely locking out other minerals like MiMed said. Too much N causes all kinds of issues besides just the tox itself.

 

[growsince79]

I hope I don't come across as arguing because I'm not. I feel you guys a right. I'm just having a hard time seeing it. To me it feels like ph, availability issue. Organic nutes can be pretty high in the soil but not available for a few reasons, ph overwatering lack of microbes to break it down... I'm kinda leaning to something like that is what i see only because organic nutes are not the same as inorganic salts.

I'm probably wrong but idk if just can't help but feel like it's something related to that.

I've been told by very knowledgeable growers not to mix organics and bottles. That said, last run I topdressed 2with organic and used bottle on 2 but only after the runoff dropped to 1450. Both ways worked. Bottles finished a week before organics

 

[Aqua Man]

Not at all Aqua. I love this kind of discussion, its productive. In one of the pics the plant looks dark to me, combined with burnt tips suggests the beginning of N tox from overfeeding and it's likely locking out other minerals like MiMed said. Too much N causes all kinds of issues besides just the tox itself.

Absolutely and I do see the darker green on older growth. Just missing it on the newer growth and I agree that could be also from a lockout.

 

[Dirtbag]

Absolutely and I do see the darker green on older growth. Just missing it on the newer growth and I agree that could be also from a lockout.

These problems dont happen to hydro growers nearly as often because you're forcing so much nutrient through mostly inert media, and obviously in DWC buckets it's even less likely. Soil accumulates what you put in it if it's not used by the plant, and that can cause problems quick if you're at all heavy handed. Makes accurate feeding a lot more critical.

Honestly the longer I do this hydro/coco thing, the more I realize how much easier it is once you get it going.

 

[Aqua Man]

I've been told by very knowledgeable growers not to mix organics and bottles. That said, last run I topdressed 2with organic and used bottle on 2 but only after the runoff dropped to 1450. Both ways worked. Bottles finished a week before organics

I agree with that in a perfect world with a healthy biology in the soil. Once ph goes out especially down it can kill off or partially kill off the microbes which process the organic nutrients for uptake by the plant into inorganic salts. If for any reasons the microbiology takes a hit all of a sudden I think we need to supplement small amount of inorganic nutrients until they bounce back.

That's why I never grow with organic unless I was outside since inorganic nutrients leech easily from the soil and unless we have microbes to break down more say after a rainfall then even though there are lots of nutrients they won't be available. To me it makes no sense to use organic nutrients indoors as in the end both organic and inorganic nutrients end up as inorganic salts.

 

[Aqua Man]

These problems dont happen to hydro growers nearly as often because you're forcing so much nutrient through mostly inert media, and obviously in DWC buckets it's even less likely. Soil accumulates what you put in it if it's not used by the plant, and that can cause problems quick if you're at all heavy handed. Makes accurate feeding a lot more critical.

Honestly the longer I do this hydro/coco thing, the more I realize how much easier it is once you get it going.

That's only (well not only but mostly) with inorganic nutrients because they are highly available

 

[growsince79]

I agree with that in a perfect world with a healthy biology in the soil. Once ph goes out especially down it can kill off or partially kill off the microbes which process the organic nutrients for uptake by the plant into inorganic salts. If for any reasons the microbiology takes a hit all of a sudden I think we need to supplement small amount of inorganic nutrients until they bounce back.

That's why I never grow with organic unless I was outside since inorganic nutrients leech easily from the soil and unless we have microbes to break down more say after a rainfall then even though there are lots of nutrients they won't be available. To me it makes no sense to use organic nutrients indoors as in the end both organic and inorganic nutrients end up as inorganic salts.

The only reason I use organic indoors is it makes easy. No need to mix anything. Water twice a week that's it.

 

[Aqua Man]

The only reason I use organic indoors is it makes easy. No need to mix anything. Water twice a week that's it.

Yeah you lose a little control but I hear ya on making it easier if you have the right mix bro. I'm to much of a control freak to go organic indoor but as you pointed out there are advantages.

 

[growsince79]

Yeah you lose a little control but I hear ya on making it easier if you have the right mix bro. I'm to much of a control freak to go organic indoor but as you pointed out there are advantages.

I hear ya. I did hydro for a long time. Getting old now and just a couple legal med plants. Easy is good.

 

[growsince79]

Tahoe og no bottles.

 

[Aqua Man]

I was doing some digging on this and this is kinda what I was talking about availability and how ppm with organics is kind of a skewed thing. Why I kinda feel it's not tox but again I am not saying that's the case and it very well could be tox and lockout but I just can't see it visually.

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[One drop]

I was doing some digging on this and this is kinda what I was talking about availability and how ppm with organics is kind of a skewed thing. Why I kinda feel it's not tox but again I am not saying that's the case and it very well could be tox and lockout but I just can't see it visually.

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Sir you never come off sounding angry at any time and your knowledge is well founded thanks for being you up front ant straight to the point . OD .

 

[growsince79]

I was doing some digging on this and this is kinda what I was talking about availability and how ppm with organics is kind of a skewed thing. Why I kinda feel it's not tox but again I am not saying that's the case and it very well could be tox and lockout but I just can't see it visually.

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Good read

 

[Thc.Grower20]

Sorry if sound like a noob. Well becuase I am but I always ph before I give regular water or feed . They have only had 1 feed in the new pots at 1/4 strength. I think the ppm last feed after nutes mixed in water was around 550. Is it possible I'm watering too much. Having alot of run off? First when transplanted I only gave Ph'd tap water. With strong run off. I have never measured the run off though.?

Thanks all you guy for the knowledge and the help. I'm very appreciative

 

[Aqua Man]

Sorry if sound like a noob. Well becuase I am but I always ph before I give regular water or feed . They have only had 1 feed in the new pots at 1/4 strength. I think the ppm last feed after nutes mixed in water was around 550. Is it possible I'm watering too much. Having alot of run off? First when transplanted I only gave Ph'd tap water. With strong run off. I have never measured the run off though.?

Thanks all you guy for the knowledge and the help. I'm very appreciative

Overwatering happens when you water to often.. not to much but with that said with organics you probably want to avoid to much runoff

 

[Thc.Grower20]

Here is a video for you guys. Of the plants and grow . 6 my plants and 6 the wife's. Massachusetts state law..