How To Correct Nute Lockout In Coots Mix?

[Minitiger]

Okay, I wanna be sure I don't forget anything.

I'm definitely experiencing lockout. I'm about a little more than a month into flowering and leaves are yellowing up and falling off, getting all gnarly brown and clawing, spotting etc. It's not normal N deficiencies that one might experience in flower. The yellowing is happening all over the place, some lower leaves are still green, fan leaves at the top are yellowing, it's really random, to be honest. It's definitely not a "yellowing leaves starting at the bottom of the plant" thing.

Plants were vegged for ninety days (due to circumstances beyond my control), started flowering on May 29. Soil mix is Coots, like I said, been recycled four times or five times, re-amended twice. Water is RO with ppm's around 40. Checked the water's ph yesterday, just out of curiosity, thinking maybe the water is seriously alkaline or acidic. It's at 6.7, so it's not crazy-off or anything. And honestly, that's the first time I've ever checked my water's ph. Never checked it before and never had a problem.

Let's see, what else....? Growing in three gallon smart pots. I used those for a few grows in the same mix and never had an issue before, although last grow I used seven gallon smart pots. Went back to three gallon pots this grow because I was sick of lifting the seven gallon pots in and out of my tent every time I watered.

We moved into a new house a couple days before I initiated flower and I couldn't get my RO unit installed for a couple of weeks, so I had to use bottled water. I used equal parts spring water and distilled water, although I had to use friggin' tap water the first couple of waterings when we moved in (ppm's 140), which might be part of the problem? Once I got my RO filter installed, I brewed an AACT (Bu' Blend and molasses) and watered all the plants with them. I figured the tap water probably fucked shit up, but I also figured that the ACT should fix everything.

So I've been using RO water again for the last two weeks or so. Ummmm..... What else? I dunno. I've looked all over the internet for how to fix this issue, but the only things I've come across are how to fix lockout growing in, like, FFOF or something. The solutions I found were to flush the plants and things along those lines, but I don't feed my plants. It's pretty much straight water all the way through, with the occasional SST, a little aloe and coconut water etc etc etc. I'm pretty sure my soil mix is just unbalanced, which is causing the lockout, but I have no idea how to fix it (obviously). I've never had any issues at all with any of my grows before this one, except Mg lockout my first time using Coots mix, so if anybody can chime in, it'd be greatly appreciated. Pics to follow.

 

[Minitiger]

Here's what the plants are looking like:

Those pics were taken three days ago. The plants are looking noticeably worse every day. Help!

 

[Necromancer]

Did you check soil ph? What is your runoff?

 

[xenon730]

this looks like very late stage magnesium deficiency to me. the curling down and browning in the centre of the finger is something i saw when i completely deprived my plants of magnesium that seemed unique. everything here looks exactly like that plant and others I've seen also. it could be lock out but with the long veg and it getting worse in later flower, the sort of sporadic yellowing, the super purple petioles, i think its likely because you washed it all out with the low ppm water. its okay to use purified water but not for 90 days without adding more nutrients. at this point you're running a strong stripping agent and likely leeching out everything soluble(of which mg is). she needs epsom. 1tsp/gallon is about 150ppm iirc. also, mg deficiency only causes straight striping half the time or looks like this and is extremely common in healthy gardens even. charts are notoriously bad for diagnosing because they show almost no symptoms and none of the relevant ones imo to anyone who's tested depriving each major nutrient themself or seen and verified each deficiency over years in the field(except n deficiency i guess but anyone can tell you what those symptoms are because everyone experiences it sooner or later).

last edit: I'm not sure but i think youre one of the people who hates calmag but regular adding to your ro would have prevented this.

 

[dnewsome2]

Okay, I wanna be sure I don't forget anything.

I'm definitely experiencing lockout. I'm about a little more than a month into flowering and leaves are yellowing up and falling off, getting all gnarly brown and clawing, spotting etc. It's not normal N deficiencies that one might experience in flower. The yellowing is happening all over the place, some lower leaves are still green, fan leaves at the top are yellowing, it's really random, to be honest. It's definitely not a "yellowing leaves starting at the bottom of the plant" thing.

Plants were vegged for ninety days (due to circumstances beyond my control), started flowering on May 29. Soil mix is Coots, like I said, been recycled four times or five times, re-amended twice. Water is RO with ppm's around 40. Checked the water's ph yesterday, just out of curiosity, thinking maybe the water is seriously alkaline or acidic. It's at 6.7, so it's not crazy-off or anything. And honestly, that's the first time I've ever checked my water's ph. Never checked it before and never had a problem.

Let's see, what else....? Growing in three gallon smart pots. I used those for a few grows in the same mix and never had an issue before, although last grow I used seven gallon smart pots. Went back to three gallon pots this grow because I was sick of lifting the seven gallon pots in and out of my tent every time I watered.

We moved into a new house a couple days before I initiated flower and I couldn't get my RO unit installed for a couple of weeks, so I had to use bottled water. I used equal parts spring water and distilled water, although I had to use friggin' tap water the first couple of waterings when we moved in (ppm's 140), which might be part of the problem? Once I got my RO filter installed, I brewed an AACT (Bu' Blend and molasses) and watered all the plants with them. I figured the tap water probably fucked shit up, but I also figured that the ACT should fix everything.

So I've been using RO water again for the last two weeks or so. Ummmm..... What else? I dunno. I've looked all over the internet for how to fix this issue, but the only things I've come across are how to fix lockout growing in, like, FFOF or something. The solutions I found were to flush the plants and things along those lines, but I don't feed my plants. It's pretty much straight water all the way through, with the occasional SST, a little aloe and coconut water etc etc etc. I'm pretty sure my soil mix is just unbalanced, which is causing the lockout, but I have no idea how to fix it (obviously). I've never had any issues at all with any of my grows before this one, except Mg lockout my first time using Coots mix, so if anybody can chime in, it'd be greatly appreciated. Pics to follow.

Your plant is rootbound make the correct watering adjustments.

 

[Minitiger]

this looks like very late stage magnesium deficiency to me. the curling down and browning in the centre of the finger is something i saw when i completely deprived my plants of magnesium that seemed unique. everything here looks exactly like that plant and others I've seen also. it could be lock out but with the long veg and it getting worse in later flower, the sort of sporadic yellowing, the super purple petioles, i think its likely because you washed it all out with the low ppm water. its okay to use purified water but not for 90 days without adding more nutrients. at this point you're running a strong stripping agent and likely leeching out everything soluble(of which mg is). she needs epsom. 1tsp/gallon is about 150ppm iirc. also, mg deficiency only causes straight striping half the time or looks like this and is extremely common in healthy gardens even. charts are notoriously bad for diagnosing because they show almost no symptoms and none of the relevant ones imo to anyone who's tested depriving each major nutrient themself or seen and verified each deficiency over years in the field(except n deficiency i guess but anyone can tell you what those symptoms are because everyone experiences it sooner or later).

last edit: I'm not sure but i think youre one of the people who hates calmag but regular adding to your ro would have prevented this.

First of all, thanks for responding. I was beginning to think that this thread was gonna get buried in the forums and nobody was gonna respond (although posting it over July 4th weekend probably didn't help).

Mag deficient, huh? Interesting. I do know that Mag deficiencies/lockout can happen even with balanced soil mixes and healthy plants, just because I've had to deal with that before. But it didn't start the way it did this time. Or rather, the leaves weren't showing the symptoms this time the way they did in previous grows. Usually the leaves would start to fade from the inside out (kinda), but this is more like the entire leaf is slowly yellowing up and then dying, similar to an N deficiency.

I gotta water tomorrow, I'll add some epsom salt to my water. Do you think a foliar might be the better route?

And I don't think I've ever mentioned my opinion on cal/mg one way or the other here at the farm, but I won't use it only because it says on the bottle that it's not considered an organic product here in California. I used to have a bottle of it, but I've never used it and I actually tossed it when I moved into my new house about a month ago.

Again, thanks for responding. Gonna add those epsoms tomorrow for sure.

 

[Minitiger]

Your plant is rootbound make the correct watering adjustments.

Meaning less water? More water?

 

[dnewsome2]

Meaning less water? More water?

The frequency. You have a giant root ball Mass and it immediately sucks up the nutrients. So she is having a problem with consistency. And probably drying out too quickly. Water her and then monitor the weight of the pot by simply lifting it then you can get an idea of how frequent you need to water.

 

[Necromancer]

The frequency. You have a giant root ball Mass and it immediately sucks up the nutrients. So she is having a problem with consistency. And probably drying out too quickly. Water her and then monitor the weight of the pot by simply lifting it then you can get an idea of how frequent you need to water.

I rember two or three grows before now i rootbounded my girls.. I veged too long in a 5 gal, when that happened i was pretty upset because i had nothing bigger to transplant too..I wanted to murder it but was too far along and just decided to grow her out.To be honest i really didnt want to just due to the fact of how much nutrients and water i would have to use on her.

 

[dnewsome2]

I rember two or three grows before now i rootbounded my girls.. I veged too long in a 5 gal, when that happened i was pretty upset because i had nothing bigger to transplant too..I wanted to murder it but was too far along and just decided to grow her out.To be honest i really didnt want to just due to the fact of how much nutrients and water i would have to use on her.

It's hard not to have that happen especially in a pot. You'll probably be fine it looks like you're pretty close to finishing. You'll just have to be very diligent and stay on top of it. Don't keep her too wet and then again don't let her get to dry. Happy growing!

 

[dnewsome2]

I rember two or three grows before now i rootbounded my girls.. I veged too long in a 5 gal, when that happened i was pretty upset because i had nothing bigger to transplant too..I wanted to murder it but was too far along and just decided to grow her out.To be honest i really didnt want to just due to the fact of how much nutrients and water i would have to use on her.

Oops wrong person he he.

 

[xenon730]

First of all, thanks for responding. I was beginning to think that this thread was gonna get buried in the forums and nobody was gonna respond (although posting it over July 4th weekend probably didn't help).

Mag deficient, huh? Interesting. I do know that Mag deficiencies/lockout can happen even with balanced soil mixes and healthy plants, just because I've had to deal with that before. But it didn't start the way it did this time. Or rather, the leaves weren't showing the symptoms this time the way they did in previous grows. Usually the leaves would start to fade from the inside out (kinda), but this is more like the entire leaf is slowly yellowing up and then dying, similar to an N deficiency.

I gotta water tomorrow, I'll add some epsom salt to my water. Do you think a foliar might be the better route?

And I don't think I've ever mentioned my opinion on cal/mg one way or the other here at the farm, but I won't use it only because it says on the bottle that it's not considered an organic product here in California. I used to have a bottle of it, but I've never used it and I actually tossed it when I moved into my new house about a month ago.

Again, thanks for responding. Gonna add those epsoms tomorrow for sure.

i wouldn't foliar that late in flower but i have before and people do but if you drench it it should arrest symptoms and correct itself over the next 2 or 3 days. that's why i said the striping thing. late mg deficiency is this, not perfect stripes like every chart shows. not interveinal or centre out, it looks like this and like n def just not at the bottom necessarily. your plant is like a perfect snap shot of late mg def. and I'm going to save these photos for future use with my clients if you don't mind? don't adjust your watering please, your plant looks great minus this, and this is a quick fix. rootbound itself is not a problem. if it were why do the solo cup plants do fine? pretty sure you'd know if your wet dry cycle was jacked up by the fact that the dirt would be bone dry before evening or next water.

 

[Minitiger]

i wouldn't foliar that late in flower but i have before and people do but if you drench it it should arrest symptoms and correct itself over the next 2 or 3 days. that's why i said the striping thing. late mg deficiency is this, not perfect stripes like every chart shows. not interveinal or centre out, it looks like this and like n def just not at the bottom necessarily. your plant is like a perfect snap shot of late mg def. and I'm going to save these photos for future use with my clients if you don't mind? don't adjust your watering please, your plant looks great minus this, and this is a quick fix. rootbound itself is not a problem. if it were why do the solo cup plants do fine? pretty sure you'd know if your wet dry cycle was jacked up by the fact that the dirt would be bone dry before evening or next water.

Yeah, ordinarily I'd be reluctant to foliar this far into flower, but I remember the first time I had to deal with a Mg deficiency it was about this far along in flower and I was told by two people who's opinions I trust (seamaiden and bulldog) that a foliar would be fine. I ended up drenching back then and I'm gonna drench this time, as well. Wasn't planning on adjusting my watering, either. I don't think they're drinking any quicker than they normally do, although I do think they're drinking more. I've noticed that I'm having to water them about a third more water than usual in the past couple weeks. I attributed that to the fact that, like dnewsome said, I probably just have a big ol' rootball in those pots. Plus, flowering plants usually need more water anyway. I dunno if they're rootbound, though.

Re: the purple petioles: the first pic is of the Clusterfunk that I'm growing, which is genetically predispositioned to throwing out purple petioles. I've grown it before and it did the same thing. I don't see it in the other pics I posted (The Fuzz and El Jefe Thai) but it might be there. I'll look the next time I'm in the garden. Not saying that it isn't a Mg deficiency (obviously), I'm just saying that that's something that the Clusterfunk just does normally. I think it looks pretty cool, actually.

And yes! Feel free to use those pics to educate your clients. Use them to educate whoever you want haha. Edumacation's good....

 

[xenon730]

Yeah, ordinarily I'd be reluctant to foliar this far into flower, but I remember the first time I had to deal with a Mg deficiency it was about this far along in flower and I was told by two people who's opinions I trust (seamaiden and bulldog) that a foliar would be fine. I ended up drenching back then and I'm gonna drench this time, as well. Wasn't planning on adjusting my watering, either. I don't think they're drinking any quicker than they normally do, although I do think they're drinking more. I've noticed that I'm having to water them about a third more water than usual in the past couple weeks. I attributed that to the fact that, like dnewsome said, I probably just have a big ol' rootball in those pots. Plus, flowering plants usually need more water anyway. I dunno if they're rootbound, though.

Re: the purple petioles: the first pic is of the Clusterfunk that I'm growing, which is genetically predispositioned to throwing out purple petioles. I've grown it before and it did the same thing. I don't see it in the other pics I posted (The Fuzz and El Jefe Thai) but it might be there. I'll look the next time I'm in the garden. Not saying that it isn't a Mg deficiency (obviously), I'm just saying that that's something that the Clusterfunk just does normally. I think it looks pretty cool, actually.

And yes! Feel free to use those pics to educate your clients. Use them to educate whoever you want haha. Edumacation's good....

yeah you're not going to hurt it with a foliar unless you do something ridiculous.

purple petioles is hard to use as a diagnosis and i only listed it because i saw it on the bright yellow fans and its part of the deficiency. also I'm growing 9 cluster funk and they all have green petioles and yours are green on the bottom also which could be because they don't get light and aren't depleted of chlorophyll from lack of mg. its not a crucial part of the diagnosis and can easily be genetics so its not as important imo anyways but was just listing what created the big picture of mg deficiency to me. they also don't always turn back, even if induced by deficiency. didn't in my test unit but i believe it may be possible. also, i see them in all your photos unless I'm missing something. the bright purple base at the petioles is enough to say it usually anyways.

how does coots mix source its magnesium?

 

[Minitiger]

yeah you're not going to hurt it with a foliar unless you do something ridiculous.

purple petioles is hard to use as a diagnosis and i only listed it because i saw it on the bright yellow fans and its part of the deficiency. also I'm growing 9 cluster funk and they all have green petioles and yours are green on the bottom also which could be because they don't get light and aren't depleted of chlorophyll from lack of mg. its not a crucial part of the diagnosis and can easily be genetics so its not as important imo anyways but was just listing what created the big picture of mg deficiency to me. they also don't always turn back, even if induced by deficiency. didn't in my test unit but i believe it may be possible. also, i see them in all your photos unless I'm missing something. the bright purple base at the petioles is enough to say it usually anyways.

how does coots mix source its magnesium?

Kelp meal is the Mg source in the mix. I usually drench a couple times during the course of any grow with a little kelp meal tea, too, but I've only done that once this grow. I wonder if that has anything to do with the issue I'm experiencing... About two weeks before I go into flower, I transplant into bigger containers (3 or 7 gallon smart pots) and do a little top-dress (kelp, gypsum, fish bone and neem), but this time I had to wait for like forty-five days after I transplanted and before I flipped, so I'm sure that's another reason why the plants are looking like they do right now.

Interesting that your Clusterfunks aren't exhibiting the purple petioles, although now that I think about it, the last time I grew CF was the last time I had a pronounced Mg deficiency, so.... But that time, like I said before, the deficiency showed in the "typical" way, i.e. leaves fading from the middle out, kind of.

And you're right, all of the plants are showing those purple petioles. Good fucking eye, man! How did you even see that in those pics? I can see them in the pic of the Clusterfunk, but I had to go into the garden just now and take a look to see if the other plants have that going on. I can't see them in the pics at all, but I have terrible eyesight.

All of my plants in all of my grows (almost) always have those purple petioles, so it's not even something I look for or worry about anymore. Honestly, I've been pretty lazy this grow and not on top of my shit at all. Right in the middle of this grow, we bought a house (hence the long veg time)(didn't want to be moving plants from house to house in the middle of flower), so there was a LOT of stuff going on that kind of took me away from focusing on the grow. And also, the majority of my grows have been so easy that I think I've just taken for granted how easy they've been. Never again! Haha.

Have you blazed that Clusterfunk before? What do you think of it? I lost mine the first time I grew it in a drying mishap (big-time bummer). Got it all the way to the finish line, chopped it, had it hanging for a few days and then all hell broke loose in the room I was drying it in, lost the CF, one Goldstar and a couple of Prayer Towers. Luckily I had chopped and dried my Apolo 11's and a different Goldstar pheno that finished earlier than the other Goldstar, so it wasn't a total loss, but it still sucked.

 

[GanjaNGains]

Here's what the plants are looking like:

View attachment 716284

View attachment 716285

View attachment 716287

Those pics were taken three days ago. The plants are looking noticeably worse every day. Help!

I didn't read the entire post lol but I'm gonna throw my 2 cents at ya anyways lol are you using any bone meal? nectar of the gods liquid Bone mean called Herculean harvest give it a flush with that and it will clean your medium the extra calciam will also add to your dense ness of your buds you can buy it in different sizes I think the smaller size for like 12-15 bucks

 

[Minitiger]

I didn't read the entire post lol but I'm gonna throw my 2 cents at ya anyways lol are you using any bone meal? nectar of the gods liquid Bone mean called Herculean harvest give it a flush with that and it will clean your medium the extra calciam will also add to your dense ness of your buds you can buy it in different sizes I think the smaller size for like 12-15 bucks

No, I don't use bottled anything. And I don't really "feed" my plants, either, so there's nothing really to flush. Everything's already in the dirt, so I'm pretty much a "water only" kinda grower, with the occasional botanical or sprouted seed tea and two ACT's, one during veg and one right when I flip.

I don't think that Nectar of the Gods stuff is organic, is it? Even if it says it is on the bottle, I still wouldn't use it. Not saying it's bad or anything, but I myself wouldn't use it.

 

[GanjaNGains]

No, I don't use bottled anything. And I don't really "feed" my plants, either, so there's nothing really to flush. Everything's already in the dirt, so I'm pretty much a "water only" kinda grower, with the occasional botanical or sprouted seed tea and two ACT's, one during veg and one right when I flip.

I don't think that Nectar of the Gods stuff is organic, is it? Even if it says it is on the bottle, I still wouldn't use it. Not saying it's bad or anything, but I myself wouldn't use it.

Right on man different strokes for different folks lol there are many pathes to cross the same river (thumbs up) but Nectar of the gods are supost to be an organic line. Maybe your soil is tapped??

 

[Organikz]

Here's your problem. You are literally not following Coots method whatsoever. You're doing transplants? Do you have the instruction manual. There is a feed schedule first of all. 2nd you need a minimum 10g pot in my experience.

Are you utilizing coconut water, MBP, fulvic acid? If you need help i can send you to no till revisited. Its a step by step guide.

Coots mix is for no till. It isn't a good mix for your style.

 

[Organikz]

Your primary magnesium source is in your 6-8 cups basalt per c.f. crustacean meal also contains magnesium but you need to understand how to chelate and precipitate these minerals.

SST and AACT is obsolete now. MBP and compost top dress watered with fulvic takes care of both.

"Here’s an example of a tried and true watering schedule (because I personally used it for years) to use from day 1 to ensure your plants are being pushed to ‘peak health’ and expressing their full ‘genetic potential.’:

Day 1 Plain water
Day 2 No watering
Day 3 MBP top-dress watered in with Aloe/Fulvic/Silica (agsil or your silica source of choice)
Day 4 No watering
Day 5 Plain water
Day 6 Neem/Kelp tea
Day 7 No watering
Day 8 Plain water
Day 9 No watering
Day 10 Coconut Water
Day 11 No watering

REPEAT - Beginning to end, no changes neededfor various stages of growth, simple enough right?" -Bluejay