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I have noticed more and more people ask how to veg/prep their plants for flower in the Under Current, and rightly so. IMO a key aspect of a successful UC run is the vegetative phase, and having a seamless transition of it into the system. That being said, it is presented here in 3 easy steps, and 4 very cheap products total (3 really unless you count 29% H2o2.) Thats right, no expensive ass RE, or anything else for that matter. The process takes from 21-30 days from fresh cut to flower.

Phase 1: Rooting (7-10 days)

Phase one is a simple rooting process, for it all that is needed is 1.5 inch rockwol cubes, rooting powder (the 8 dollar powder from lowes/home depot is much better the expensive hydro store gels) or rooting gel (it still works), Dynabloom, and R/O water.

Cuts are taken and set in a cup of pure R/O for 24 hours of maximum water uptake. Then they recieve an application of rooting powder/gel and are placed in the cubes (1.5 inch rockwol presoaked in R/O). Cubes are then placed in black trays, domed (if RH is below 50%), and placed under a light source no stronger then t8’s (t5’s are too bright and slow rooting times).

Always include a dark period during clone and veg, the dark reactions taking place are required for proper occurrence of the Krebs/citric acid cycle and significantly aid in root production.

As the cubes begin to show signs of rooting switch from applications of pure R/O to 2 ml/gal of Dynabloom pHed to 5.2. The reason Dyna is such a great nutrient for rooting is that it contains the highest level of P and K of any line on the market, (see profiles below). In fact at this point in the plants life the P and the K are really all it needs.

Dyna Gro Bloom (3-12-6) (NH4) 0.7% (NO3) 2.3% Mg0.5% Ca2% Fe0.1% S0.09% Mn0.05% @2ml/ Gal
N 20.6
P 36.2
K 34.4
Mg 6.8
Ca 13.8
S .6
Fe .68
B .125
Cl NOT LISTED
Co .02072
Cu .688
Mn .668
Mo .01244
Zn .688

Pics are at 10 days from cutting:
 
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Phase 2 : Pre-Vegetative (7-10 days)

The pre-vegetative phase (like the vegetative phase) is broken into two parts with two distinctly different goals. The goal of the first part is to grow roots and the second is to grow shoots. This phase requires a media (in this case water) a system to run it in (in this case an aeroflo), nutrients, (in this case Dynabloom, and Cal-Mag) and a sterilizer, (in this case 29% H2O2.)

Part I
The first part of the phase, growing roots, is best achieved with an application of Dynabloom (@4ml/gal,) that is pHed to 5.3. Also, this phase can thrive under lighting conditions ranging anywhere from 1k watts of MH to t5’s (imo t5’s promote optimal growth for phase 2). Their are many reasons that water is the best media for this phase, however the most important are: the ease in which it transitions into the UC, and the ability to have unfettered access to the plants root zone.

It is the second reason we will address for this part of the stage. Daily monitoring of the root zone will show that they are growing steadily, and healthily. The indication that the plants are ready to move into the second part of the stage should occur around the fourth or fifth day and is characterized by an explosive growth of the roots structure previously not present.

Part II

Now that the plants are ready to transition in to the second part of the stage the goal is shoot growth and root zone mgmt. To achieve this goal the rooting profile constructed with the dyna needs to be altered to promote such. At this time top-off the rezz with 2 ml/gal of cal-mag, 1 ml/gal H2o2 and raise the ph to around 5.7.

As you continue to check out the plants you will notice a deeper green color and significant increase in shoot growth. When you see either the shoots start to take off, or, a pH swing upward (say to 6ish) then you know it is time for 2 more ml/gal of cal-mag (4 total now), and pH back down to 5.6-5.7. Total time for part 2 of phase II is around 3-5 days. At this point shoots and roots should be around 12 inches of solid healthy growth.

Dyna Gro Bloom (3-12-6) (NH4) 0.7% (NO3) 2.3% Mg0.5% Ca2% Fe0.1% S0.09% Mn0.05% @4ml/ Gal
N 41.2
P 72.4
K 68.8
Mg 6.8
Ca 27.6
S 1.2
Fe 1.36
B .27
Cl NOT LISTED
Co .02072
Cu .688
Mn .668
Mo .01244
Zn .688

Botanicare Cal Mag Plus (2-0-0) Mg1.2% Ca3.2% Fe.1%
1.0208 g/mL @4mL/Gal
N 21.6
P 0
K 0
Mg 12.8
Ca 34.4
Fe 1.08
Derived from: Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Nitrate, Iron EDTA.

Pics are at 8 days into phase 2:


Here is a link to phase 2 using rockwol as the media:
http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f9/rockwol-amazing-roots-37128/
 
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Phase 3: Vegatative (7-10 days)

The vegetative phase is essentially a repeat of the pre-veg phase with the addition of a third part. Preveged plants are placed at the bottom of the UC baskets, on top of about 1.5 inches of hydroton, and then the basket is filled the rest of the way with it as well. It is important to remember that if the water level in the UC drops below the bottom of the basket, there is the risk of root death which initiate the onset of rot in the system.

Once the plants are in place we turn on the dripper system until the roots have grown significantly into the baskets. If you have not added a dripper/recirculator to your UC you have the option of hand watering the baskets no less then 3 times per day and can be watered as often as every 2 hours.

Part I: (2-4 days)

The initial veg profile again is Dynabloom @4-5 ml/gal and 29% H2o2 @1 ml/gal, pHed to 5.3. This profile is ran until root growth extends into the UC buckets AND encircle the entire basket.

Part II: (2-4 days)

After the baskets are fully encircled with roots the profile is modified with the addition of Cal-mag @3 ml/gal and pH over 5.7. Again focus is shifted from root growth to shoot growth and when “explosive” growth onsets its time for a rezz change.

Part III (2-4 days)

New rezz means a new profile, and it looks something like this:

Cal-mag @ 3-4 ml/gal
H&G A @ 4-5 ml/gal
H&G B @ 4-5 ml/gal
Epsom @ 1 g/gal
H2o2 @ 2 ml/gal
pH to 5.4

This profile and the rezz its contained in can be ran right up to, and throughout the first part of flower. It is very important not to over veg these plants, as the UC can easily triple the size of them during the flower period. Management of the pH and EC will be posted in a few days.

Pics are at 7 days in the UC/phase 3 (they will be flowered at day 10):

Also on day 7 the plants were topped and defoliated (pruned) which, other then profiles will be the most important technique used for the rest of these plants life cycles. More info on pruning can be found here:

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f158/isa-pruning-techniques-uc-37275/


If you wish to see the plants in the pics all the way through to harvest you can find them here:
http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f158/16k-watts-over-24-site-ucxxl13-37089/
 
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Profiles:

(profiles at 10ml/gal are for ease of use not actual application)

Dyna Gro Bloom (3-12-6) (NH4) 0.7% (NO3) 2.3% Mg0.5% Ca2% Fe0.1% S0.09% Mn0.05% @4ml/ Gal
N 41.2
P 72.4
K 68.8
Mg 6.8
Ca 27.6
S 1.2
Fe 1.36
B .27
Cl NOT LISTED
Co .02072
Cu .688
Mn .668
Mo .01244
Zn .688


Dyna Gro Bloom (3-12-6) (NH4) 0.7% (NO3) 2.3% Mg0.5% Ca2% Fe0.1% S0.09% Mn0.05% @10ml/ Gal
N 103
P 181
K 172
Mg 17
Ca 69
S3
Fe 3.4552
B .691
Cl NOT LISTED
Co 0.0518
Cu 1.7276
Mn 1.7276
Mo 0.0311
Zn 1.7276

Botanicare Cal Mag Plus (2-0-0) Mg1.2% Ca3.2% Fe.1%
1.0208 g/mL @4mL/Gal
N 21.6
P 0
K 0
Mg 12.8
Ca 34.4
Fe 1.08
Derived from: Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Nitrate, Iron EDTA.


Botanicare Cal Mag Plus (2-0-0) Mg1.2% Ca3.2% Fe.1%
1.0208 g/mL @10mL/Gal
N 54
P 0
K 0
Mg 32
Ca 86
Fe 2.7
Derived from: Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Nitrate, Iron EDTA.

H&G (8ml/gal A&B)
N 112
P 40

K 200
Mg 16

Ca UNKNOWN
S 0


H&G
(3-12-6) (NH4) 0.7% (NO3) 2.3% Mg0.5% Ca2% Fe0.1% S0.09% Mn0.05% @10ml/Gal (A&B)

N 140
P 50
K 250
Mg 20

Ca UNKNOWN
S 0

links to more of my profile work:
http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f158/uc-actual-available-nutrient-profiles-33282/

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f9/actual-available-ppm-analysis-bloom-boosters-34292/


link to profile work in light of tissue analysis:
http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f9/myth-low-n-33372/
 
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I have a question, I noticed you are dosing h2o2 @ 1ml per gallon , but what strength h2o2 are you using? (3%, 9%, 29%, 50%)

Great thread by the way, thanks. I'm sure this will help many a farmer!
 
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Why not ever use the Dyna--Grow for veg instead of the Dyna-gro bloom formula?
I explained that already. Dynabloom is not for growing plants it is for growing roots which requires a phosphocentric profile. Dynagrows profile is terrible for achieving this goal.

The addition of cal-mag restores a proper profile for growing plants. The idea that plants need 2 different profiles for veg and bloom is completely false from a scientific point of view.
 
Sorry, I guess I missed that part...interseting approach.....I have noticed that certain lines do not even make a grow formula.....I guess that is why.....

I am a little confused though, as once you add the Cal/mag your back at the profile for a grow formula.....

I like your method for preping plants for the UC.....I have found that if you take a rooted cutting, you can go directly to the UC with it...just have to hand water for about a week until the roots grow far enough down into the netpot.....

Very informative post...thanks for the info!
 
Forgot to mention also, Dyna-Gro is decent but cheap stuff....they contain the most metals out of any other fertilizer....not a good record to hold....

Was wondering what your take on metal content in nutrients is or are you concerned with this?

Thanks as always for your help and information!

Peace!
 
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Great post DS Im always lurking on your threads but i just had to speak up and thank you for the quality of the information that you share!
 
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28
I am wondering what budgoogles is wondering/How exactly do you add the h202? & How often? h202 dissipates in like 3-4 days i have heard??
So if your system if full how could you add h202. Do you add h202 undiluted directly to the epicenter.. im confused on your procedures..
When I was rocking the UC i drained the whole system every 4 days, then would mix the h202 in real well then refill the system as I was afraid of shocking the plants by adding it directly to the epicenter. was kinda a pain though. wondering your exact procedure... step by step..+ REP thanks for everything, your a real help to the community here!
 
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Excellent work again DS. The fundamental advantage of the UC is its explosive vegetative growth ( 8 weeks of flower is still 8 weeks of flower whether in dirt or otherwise) which enables one to achieve faster crop cycles. Thanks for posting this info.
 
Do you have ec or ppm values for your various stages of veg? Do you see any differences when using rockwool, STG, or hydroton in the aeroflo?
 
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Im gonna do a run sterile next with h2o2
I dont use a top off rez how often should I add the h202
Thanks
BG
Sorry i, do not know with any confidence when to top-off H202. We ordered a H2O2 testing kit and i will post more info when I know it is accurate.

I will say that we add 1, 2 even 3 ml/gal of 29% H2O2 directly to the epicenter with no problems at all.
 
Could you elaborate a bit on the veg nutrients like what kind of PPM's are you running at each phase of your veg cycles or steps?

Like when you add 4/ml Dynabloom and 2/ml Cal/Mag to your RO water, how much PPM's or EC level are you running with this dosage?

Came out at about 360PPM with just the Dynabloom at 4ml and the Cal/Mag(Technaflora MagiCal) at 2ml per gallon added to 0PPM RO filtered water. Then added a rooting additive (Rootbastic from Atami) which added about 150PPM's to the mix.

Does 300 to 400PPM sound about right?

I know you dont like the additive but I had samples I needed to run some test with anyhow......

Thanks for all the information and help! Priceless! +Rep
 
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Sorry i, do not know with any confidence when to top-off H202. We ordered a H2O2 testing kit and i will post more info when I know it is accurate.

I will say that we add 1, 2 even 3 ml/gal of 29% H2O2 directly to the epicenter with no problems at all.
Alright Im just going to add it like every 4-5 days if I feel the need maybe once a week. Im probably going to dilute it in a 5 gal bucket then slowly ad it in
Thanks
BG
 

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