How to size a cooling system for your garden

[Chillville]

I wanted to start this thread to answer some basic questions about sizing cooling systems. Feel free to ask for help here for sizing your garden but first check out this interactive BTU calculator specifically for cooling gardens that I helped create. I personally tested everything 3x's and am very confident with my numbers. I did this by absorbing the heat in to water and then measuring the BTU's in the water. I put up some round numbers to make it easy, so these are not my exact findings.



Basically this is how it breaks down...

Cooling BTU's needed before any equipment is added. This is for warm climates with 3 1/2" insulation, approx 40 BTU sq ft

1000 watt lamp inc radiant heat 4,000 BTU
1000 watt magnetic ballast 3,500 BTU
1000 watt digital ballast 2,500 BTU

600 watt lamp inc radiant heat 2,400 BTU
600 watt magnetic ballast 2,100 BTU
600 watt digital ballast 1,500 BTU

Co2
The amount of co2 varies on how well the room is sealed, the amount of plants consuming it, and the ppm setpoint. Typically generators have single burners inside that are rated at 3,000 BTU each. So a 4 burner gen produces approximately 12k BTU if ran for an entire hour. My best suggestion is to buy the gen before the cooling system and run it while monitoring the on and off cycle. Keep in mind that the initial run time will be longer than the maintenance run time. If you monitor for one hour and you know your generator size you can calculate your BTU's. Make sure that if you are ventilating your lights or your room that you do this while testing the BTU of the generator. You can run this test over 30 mins, just double your results. Keep in mind that plants consume it as well and this will raise your BTU's....how much depends on your plant size...I would figure at least 20% more than your BTU's test results to be safe. Just for an example I have a well sealed 12' x 24' flower room with 12 very large plants (3' wide 5-6' tall each) and my 12k BTU generator runs for about 15 mins an hour, so about 4k BTU per hour. Although not as accurate as a field test here is a co2 calculator that gives you an idea of initial run time for a particular room size. BTW 15 cubic feet of co2 equals 12k BTU.



Dehumidification
This is even trickier to calculate. BTU's created of course are based on run time. It's effected by outdoor humidity levels, how well the room is sealed, what growing system you are using (soil is highest IME), amount of plant material, and room temperature (the warmer the room the more the plants transpire), cooling system used, and humidity setpoint. Far to many variables for me to make a solid suggestion on BTU's. But to help size them I will tell you that a 70 pint dehu produces about 2k BTU per hour. If you think that you need a 70pint I would figure worst case scenario and add 2k BTU to your total. I use a 70 pint dehu for my garden (12' x 24') and it runs 50-70% of time depending on my plant cycle, but its my only form of dehumidification. With a standard a/c you will get some dehumidification out of it making the dehu run time less.

Ventilating lights
This varies depending on temp of the air being used and the amount of airflow (CFM). I've never cooled lights using outside air because in my location the air is too hot to use so I don't have any suggestions for sizing for this. I can tell you without a doubt if the air used to cool the lights is above the room temp is far less effective, in fact it can heat your room. Reflectors have about 8 sq ft of metal and 4 sq ft of glass and along with all the ducting they become heaters. Lets say your room is 80 degrees and the air you are using to cool the lights is 90 degrees. After the air flows through the reflector(s) its heated up well beyond this. All of the reflectors and ducting heats up to this temp and radiates heat in to the room. Something else to consider is that HID lighting produces radiation that even if using ice cold air radiation still passes out of the reflector. A great example is to hold your hand 1/4" away from the metal on the top of the reflector near the bulb and you can actually feel the radiant heat. This is approximately 500 BTU per hour per 1000 watt. A simple fix for this is to use Reflector Heat Shields.They will block 99% of the radiant heat on anything they cover and are a must for air cooling IMO. The radiant barrier fabric traps more heat in the reflectors allowing it to be removed with the forced air. For anyone using above room temp air to cool their lights I would insist they use these covers, I guarantee they will make a significant difference.

Lastly I always design my cooling systems 10-20% over the BTU's needed so that the cooling equipment can cycle on and off properly. These figures above have some cushion built in to them so 10% is probably fine.

If you need help sizing beyond this or have any other questions feel free to ask :)

 

[ttystikk]

hey chill- I've gotten lots of conflicting info on building out my chiller setup.

I'm planning to cool 2 rdwc setups with about 75 gallons total capacity each. I'm also cooling the rooms they're in, the veg room has one 1k open bulb light, cooled currently by venting to the outside, cool air pulled in from the basement. Some additional cooling is provided by a swamp cooler.

The bloom room is the biggie though; 8x1k HPS all in 'ocho' hoods, also cooled by air from the basement, exhausted to the outside. CO2 provided by tank. I have several 8" maxfans, each blowing through an 8" chiller box. These do NOT cool air blowing through the hoods, rather they chill air inside the room. For dehuey I use a 70 pint/hr unit.

I have a 2hp chillking unit to do all this with. I know I'm running pretty close to its maximum output, am I over? What will happen if the chiller isn't quite up to the cooling job? My reservoir is a 55 gallon drum that is not in any of the growrooms, I could run it full, or less than half full...

I'm getting lots of conflicting info, let me know what to DO?

 

[Chillville]

hey chill- I've gotten lots of conflicting info on building out my chiller setup.

I'm planning to cool 2 rdwc setups with about 75 gallons total capacity each. I'm also cooling the rooms they're in, the veg room has one 1k open bulb light, cooled currently by venting to the outside, cool air pulled in from the basement. Some additional cooling is provided by a swamp cooler.

The bloom room is the biggie though; 8x1k HPS all in 'ocho' hoods, also cooled by air from the basement, exhausted to the outside. CO2 provided by tank. I have several 8" maxfans, each blowing through an 8" chiller box. These do NOT cool air blowing through the hoods, rather they chill air inside the room. For dehuey I use a 70 pint/hr unit.

I have a 2hp chillking unit to do all this with. I know I'm running pretty close to its maximum output, am I over? What will happen if the chiller isn't quite up to the cooling job? My reservoir is a 55 gallon drum that is not in any of the growrooms, I could run it full, or less than half full...

I'm getting lots of conflicting info, let me know what to DO?

Great questions. To make sure I understand everything please answer these for me.

1. I understand that the veg room has a bare bulb and is cooled by outside air being pulled through the basement. For the flower room are you pulling air from the basement, through the hoods, and then venting them outside? Or is it setup similar to the veg room where you just exchanging the room air?

2. You mentioned several max-fans and 8" chiller boxes (Ice Box?). How many of these do you have and are you putting any in the veg room?

3. Where is the res going to be? Its a non issue as long as it isn't outside where its hot.

4. What about your pump? Are you going to be pumping up from the basement? Lift has to be considered if you are. Not having enough water flow could greatly effect the performance.

LMK

 

[ttystikk]

Great questions. To make sure I understand everything please answer these for me.

1. I understand that the veg room has a bare bulb and is cooled by outside air being pulled through the basement. For the flower room are you pulling air from the basement, through the hoods, and then venting them outside? Or is it setup similar to the veg room where you just exchanging the room air?

2. You mentioned several max-fans and 8" chiller boxes (Ice Box?). How many of these do you have and are you putting any in the veg room?

3. Where is the res going to be? Its a non issue as long as it isn't outside where its hot.

4. What about your pump? Are you going to be pumping up from the basement? Lift has to be considered if you are. Not having enough water flow could greatly effect the performance.

LMK

1. The veg room does indeed have a bare bulb fixture, and the air comes in through the door from the basement (75-80 degrees) and is exhausted out the window to the outside.

The bloom room is different entirely; air is pulled from the basement through 8inch ducting and the ocho hoods, then exhausted outside through another window, WITHOUT ever mixing with the air in the room. Surely there are some tiny holes in the ductwork, but the 8" maxfans suck from the downstream end and push the heated air out the window. The air in the room is meant to stay in the room, where it can be actively managed for humidity and CO2 content.

2. I have a grand total of 7 eight inch 'Iceflow Boxes' (basically automotive heater cores with plastic housings that include 8" openings), 4 8" maxfans, and 2 6" inline fans. The original idea was to use all 4 maxfans and 4 iceflow boxes to cool the air in the bloom room, by mounting each iceflow boxe immediately downstream of its maxfan, the assembly hanging from the ceiling horizontally. They pull room air through the fan, PUSH through the iceflow box, and back into the room. I think that mounting the boxes downstream of each hood is ridiculous... I am also no longer certain I need all four to cool the room. As long as I get acceptable BTU transfer, the fewer, the better, right?

As for the other 3 iceflow boxes and 2 6" inline fans; I want to put one in the big basement living space where air is pulled from for the above uses, with a 6" fan pshing air through it, and another similar setup in the veg. room. Again, these would be just the fan pushing air through the box, all hung from the ceiling.

3. The liquid cooling res. is in the furnace room, which is not in any growing space, and stays relatively cool. The reservoirs for the rdwc setups are in their respetive growrooms, only because there was no other place to keep them.

4. The pump is sitting on the floor of the basement directly underneath the res, since it's a non self priming type. The pump is a chunky 40lb. 1/2hp Flojet unit, I seriously doubt it will have trouble lifting the water up to the ceiling where most of the runs are to get water from room to room, or to the main floor above where the chiller is mounted in a window. By the way, the pump has a main outlet, which goes thru a 1" hose to a Tee fitting which necks down to 2 x 3/4" lines, each going to a 6 way manifold. Those 2 manifolds each will serve the cooling needs of A. the bloom room, and B. all other uses. All lines leaving the manifolds are 1/2", flow through the iceflow unit or a copper coil that sits in the control bucket of the rdwc system, then back to another identical manifold that collects the warm water and returns it to the res. There is a smaller fitting on the face of the pump that is attached to its own 1/2" line going directly to the chiller upstairs. the return from the chiller flows into the res.

 

[Crysmatic]

Great info. Sogreenthumb is running a room similar to a buddy's. Sog has 4 1k digital ballasts and we have 3 1k magnetic ballasts. We both run CO2 and ours is water cooled. He suggested we use 18000 btu AC and 175 pint dehuey. Is this adequate?
In a 1000 cuft room? Our ballasts can be outside the room. Tia

Youre saying theres a fudge factor because you dont know how much the plants will feed and transpire.

 

[johnnyrex]

Hello chillville first I want to say that your write up on sizing your cooling system is very informative and impressive. On behalf of my self an I thinks many we thank you that I now have a reference table to go back to.

My question is I just purchase a 1 hp Aqua Quest Titanium chiller that has a 1.5" inlet and outlet. I can't seem to find the right fitting or should I say the appropriate fitting for the chiller. The unit only came with operating instruction.
I have attach some photo of the unit and side pic of the inlet outlet also 2 more photo of the caps with rubber seals. Any help would really appreciate thanks once again.

 

[SweetTooth]

1000 watt lamp inc radiant heat 4,000 BTU

I'm just wondering how this figure was calculated as it is higher that I have previously been informed from other cooling specialist. I was under the asumption that a 1K bulb puts off around 3410 of btu.

1000W x 3.41 BTU's = 3410 BTU (this is the formula I was told works)

thanks

 

[Chillville]

1. The veg room does indeed have a bare bulb fixture, and the air comes in through the door from the basement (75-80 degrees) and is exhausted out the window to the outside.

The bloom room is different entirely; air is pulled from the basement through 8inch ducting and the ocho hoods, then exhausted outside through another window, WITHOUT ever mixing with the air in the room. Surely there are some tiny holes in the ductwork, but the 8" maxfans suck from the downstream end and push the heated air out the window. The air in the room is meant to stay in the room, where it can be actively managed for humidity and CO2 content.

2. I have a grand total of 7 eight inch 'Iceflow Boxes' (basically automotive heater cores with plastic housings that include 8" openings), 4 8" maxfans, and 2 6" inline fans. The original idea was to use all 4 maxfans and 4 iceflow boxes to cool the air in the bloom room, by mounting each iceflow boxe immediately downstream of its maxfan, the assembly hanging from the ceiling horizontally. They pull room air through the fan, PUSH through the iceflow box, and back into the room. I think that mounting the boxes downstream of each hood is ridiculous... I am also no longer certain I need all four to cool the room. As long as I get acceptable BTU transfer, the fewer, the better, right?

As for the other 3 iceflow boxes and 2 6" inline fans; I want to put one in the big basement living space where air is pulled from for the above uses, with a 6" fan pshing air through it, and another similar setup in the veg. room. Again, these would be just the fan pushing air through the box, all hung from the ceiling.

3. The liquid cooling res. is in the furnace room, which is not in any growing space, and stays relatively cool. The reservoirs for the rdwc setups are in their respetive growrooms, only because there was no other place to keep them.

4. The pump is sitting on the floor of the basement directly underneath the res, since it's a non self priming type. The pump is a chunky 40lb. 1/2hp Flojet unit, I seriously doubt it will have trouble lifting the water up to the ceiling where most of the runs are to get water from room to room, or to the main floor above where the chiller is mounted in a window. By the way, the pump has a main outlet, which goes thru a 1" hose to a Tee fitting which necks down to 2 x 3/4" lines, each going to a 6 way manifold. Those 2 manifolds each will serve the cooling needs of A. the bloom room, and B. all other uses. All lines leaving the manifolds are 1/2", flow through the iceflow unit or a copper coil that sits in the control bucket of the rdwc system, then back to another identical manifold that collects the warm water and returns it to the res. There is a smaller fitting on the face of the pump that is attached to its own 1/2" line going directly to the chiller upstairs. the return from the chiller flows into the res.

1. Ok great, sounds like a plan
2. I’m familiar with the Iceflows, they are the Advanced Nutrients version of the Hydro Innovations Ice Box. In your situation putting the Iceflows on the reflectors just doesn’t make sense because you are air cooling your lights. The reason it is recommended to place them downstream of each reflector is because this is where you have your highest temperature differential (water temp to air temp) which makes the heat exchanger more efficient, basically being able to absorb more BTU’s to get more bang for your buck. Advanced Nutrients originally bought their units from Hydro Innovations but ended up just making their own knock off later on. I hope that you have the units that were bought from HI, there is a big difference in quality and efficiency from their version. If you wanted to take it apart and post some pics I could tell you which ones that you have. Your plan to mount them sounds good, you can always stick on adjustable elbow on the ends of them to point the airflow wherever you want it. The HI Ice Box 8” is capable of about 6000 BTU at 65 degree water, 3GPM…so 4 of them will get you close to 2 tons of cooling capacity whether you use it all or not. I have not tested BTU’s of the second iceflow design. You will probably need 2 iceflows in the veg room, you can probably just run them on one fan since you won’t have that much heat generated in there.
3. I would insulate it unless normally that room is as cold as your reservoir temp, if not it will absorb heat from there.
4. Sounds like you got a good plan for the pump. I think that you have flotec pump though, never hear of a flojet. BTW I wouldn’t recommend putting copper inside your nutrient reservoir. The salts will corrode the copper and it will leach in to your system (wrote this in the other thread too). I’ve tested this for myself and the copper levels jump up pretty quick. Stainless steel won’t cost you much more and you won’t have any problems with that.

As far as your cooling system goes I think that you are probably going to be fine most of the year at least. If you weren’t cooling the lights at all with outside air you would be creating about 40,000 BTU and you have a 24,000 BTU chiller. If you air cooling is able to remove 20k BTU you should be in good shape, and I think that it will. Since you have many variables to deal with you may have to dial things in a bit to get everything just right. Check your flow rates on the return lines of the iceflows and chiller to make sure you are getting 5GPM on the chiller and 3-5 GPM on each iceflow. Put the return lines each in a bucket, turn on the pump or valve, fill the bucket and time it. Always return any device that is connected to the smaller ports on the pump directly to the reservoir, don’t feed these in to your return manifold. Putting these lines in to your return manifold can cause it to pressurize which will make you have uneven distribution through the system. Just in case you didn't know you should always up size your return manifold, so in your case 1 1/4". This creates a pressure drop on the return manifold so that you get equal flow through all the water-cooled devices.

 

[Chillville]

I'm just wondering how this figure was calculated as it is higher that I have previously been informed from other cooling specialist. I was under the asumption that a 1K bulb puts off around 3410 of btu.

1000W x 3.41 BTU's = 3410 BTU (this is the formula I was told works)

thanks

Great question. You are correct, the bulb creates approx 3,500 BTU but it also creates radiation that causes radiant heat. This isn't noticable in the first few hours of operation but becomes much more noticable towards the end of the cycle. Anything that the light strikes absorbs the radiation and starts to generate its own heat, just like a black car in the sun. This extra heat must be figured in to properly size systems. It isn't exactly 500 extra BTU but its close.

 

[Chillville]

Great info. Sogreenthumb is running a room similar to a buddy's. Sog has 4 1k digital ballasts and we have 3 1k magnetic ballasts. We both run CO2 and ours is water cooled. He suggested we use 18000 btu AC and 175 pint dehuey. Is this adequate?
In a 1000 cuft room? Our ballasts can be outside the room. Tia

Youre saying theres a fudge factor because you dont know how much the plants will feed and transpire.

Ballast must be out of the room whenever possible, it will save you lots on cooling electricity. 175 pint dehu? Do you mean 75 pint? Thought I would ask since that is a more common size. I do think that a 75 pint dehu should be good as long as the room is well sealed and the humidity isn't high outdoors. For the lighing I understand you are running 3k watts with open hoods. This puts you about about 12k btu and approx 2k BTU on the dehu. Unless you are in a cold climate you will need some BTU's just to cool the room if it didn't have any equipment. This puts you very close to the capacity of the a/c especially if its warm/hot outside. Personally I would recommend a 2 ton for that job just because I always want to have 10-20% more than I need. Just so you know that a 2 ton won't ultimately use more power than a 1.5 ton on the same garden. The 1.5 ton will run longer than the 2 ton but it uses less power. Basically it becomes a wash. What sucks is that 1.5 ton units (18k btu) are usually 120 volt and all 2 tons are 240 volt, if you got the 240 volt available go for the 2 ton for sure. You might could make the 1.5 ton work but it may struggle.

How are you cooling your co2? Drain to waste?

 

[Chillville]

Hello chillville first I want to say that your write up on sizing your cooling system is very informative and impressive. On behalf of my self an I thinks many we thank you that I now have a reference table to go back to.

My question is I just purchase a 1 hp Aqua Quest Titanium chiller that has a 1.5" inlet and outlet. I can't seem to find the right fitting or should I say the appropriate fitting for the chiller. The unit only came with operating instruction.
I have attach some photo of the unit and side pic of the inlet outlet also 2 more photo of the caps with rubber seals. Any help would really appreciate thanks once again.

Hi Johnny! Thanks man, I like helping when I can, I feel its the right thing to do. I'm a medicinal user myself treating epileptic seizures and my life wouldn't be the same without MM....as an awesome side effect its also helps me focus! Amazing stuff. Anyway back to the subject....

Those fittings I have never seen on a chiller! They look like plumbing fittings used for sink drains. You should be able to use 1.5 " PVC, slip on the nut, slip on the rubber washer, push it in to the chiller as far as it will go, push your rubber gasket up to the chiller inlet and then tighten the nut on to the chiller inlet. This will lock in the PVC and seal it in place. I'm 90% sure that's how to do it, let me know if it isn't. Good luck!

 

[ttystikk]

1. Ok great, sounds like a plan
2. I’m familiar with the Iceflows, they are the Advanced Nutrients version of the Hydro Innovations Ice Box. In your situation putting the Iceflows on the reflectors just doesn’t make sense because you are air cooling your lights. The reason it is recommended to place them downstream of each reflector is because this is where you have your highest temperature differential (water temp to air temp) which makes the heat exchanger more efficient, basically being able to absorb more BTU’s to get more bang for your buck. Advanced Nutrients originally bought their units from Hydro Innovations but ended up just making their own knock off later on. I hope that you have the units that were bought from HI, there is a big difference in quality and efficiency from their version. If you wanted to take it apart and post some pics I could tell you which ones that you have. Your plan to mount them sounds good, you can always stick on adjustable elbow on the ends of them to point the airflow wherever you want it. The HI Ice Box 8” is capable of about 6000 BTU at 65 degree water, 3GPM…so 4 of them will get you close to 2 tons of cooling capacity whether you use it all or not. I have not tested BTU’s of the second iceflow design. You will probably need 2 iceflows in the veg room, you can probably just run them on one fan since you won’t have that much heat generated in there.
3. I would insulate it unless normally that room is as cold as your reservoir temp, if not it will absorb heat from there.
4. Sounds like you got a good plan for the pump. I think that you have flotec pump though, never hear of a flojet. BTW I wouldn’t recommend putting copper inside your nutrient reservoir. The salts will corrode the copper and it will leach in to your system (wrote this in the other thread too). I’ve tested this for myself and the copper levels jump up pretty quick. Stainless steel won’t cost you much more and you won’t have any problems with that.

As far as your cooling system goes I think that you are probably going to be fine most of the year at least. If you weren’t cooling the lights at all with outside air you would be creating about 40,000 BTU and you have a 24,000 BTU chiller. If you air cooling is able to remove 20k BTU you should be in good shape, and I think that it will. Since you have many variables to deal with you may have to dial things in a bit to get everything just right. Check your flow rates on the return lines of the iceflows and chiller to make sure you are getting 5GPM on the chiller and 3-5 GPM on each iceflow. Put the return lines each in a bucket, turn on the pump or valve, fill the bucket and time it. Always return any device that is connected to the smaller ports on the pump directly to the reservoir, don’t feed these in to your return manifold. Putting these lines in to your return manifold can cause it to pressurize which will make you have uneven distribution through the system. Just in case you didn't know you should always up size your return manifold, so in your case 1 1/4". This creates a pressure drop on the return manifold so that you get equal flow through all the water-cooled devices.

1. cool! Nice to know I'm getting something right, lol

2. I think I'm developing a habit for mis-speaking the brand names of my gear; it IS a Flotec pump, and they are Hydro Innovations brand chiller boxes. I like their construction, and the bluish hydrophilic coating on the fins seems like it will help both longevity and perhaps will also reduce the need for a dehuey, which I have anyway. On this subject, would it make sense to plumb a special duct from the dehuey to an iceflow box, just to keep it from heating the room? I run CO2 tanks instead of burners, the magnetic ballasts are all outside of the room and the hoods are aircooled, so I'm thinkin' the dehuey might just be the largest single point source of heat left in the room!

3. Okay, will do.

4. Yep, you mentioned that in the other thread, so it looks like an upgrade will be in order. Hope the stainless is as easy to bend...

5. The heat is thankfully nearly over for this year, although this August is the hottest on record for Colorado and we're all sweltering in the city! My friends in the hills definitely have it made.

6. The return from the chiller- the only item connected to a smaller port on the front of the pump- drains directly back into the res., it just seemed logical to do that. Thanks for confirming my engineer's gut feeling.

7. I didn't have a lot of parts to choose from when building my manifolds, so I ended up with stuff that's the same size in and out. I believe I compensated reaosnably well by simply making sure there's as little restriction as possible throughout the entire system, like I said, stepping down from 1" tubing off the pump to 3/4" to the rooms, then 1/2" tubing from each manifold to each served component, and then the same in reverse, all the way back to the res. If the aim of a larger return system is equal flow, I'm reasonably sure that my system will meet that specification. I will try to get some pics of the manifolds and stuff, so you can lay an eyeball on what I've done.

 

[ttystikk]

oh yeah, and one more thing (and many thanks for your insights thus far!)... If I built another 8x1kW room similar to the first with another rdwc system in it, and powered it with the flip of the same ballasts, would I have to upsize my chiller? I'm thinking I'd be okay, since the rooms would run opposite of one another, but if not let me know where my thinking might be wrong on this?

 

[Chillville]

oh yeah, and one more thing (and many thanks for your insights thus far!)... If I built another 8x1kW room similar to the first with another rdwc system in it, and powered it with the flip of the same ballasts, would I have to upsize my chiller? I'm thinking I'd be okay, since the rooms would run opposite of one another, but if not let me know where my thinking might be wrong on this?

No problem at all. Assuming that the system works fine with your current setup AND the chiller doesn't have to run much during the lights off cycle to maintain room temp....then yes I think that you would be fine with the same system on a flip flop. It will all depend on your air cooling actually. This would be a VERY energy efficient setup and should really kick ass.

Hydro Innovations just released their own line of energy efficient pumps that you might want to consider, especially if you haven't installed it yet. I have one already and I replaced my 1/2 flotec pump with it. The flotec uses about 10 amps and this new pump uses only 3 amps and actually outflows the flotec by about 3000 GPH. The flotec has an AO Smith motor which is a very reliable motor, the new pump has a high effeicency Baldor motor that is equally as badass. Its really quiet too but its not cheap.

 

[Chillville]

1. cool! Nice to know I'm getting something right, lol

2. I think I'm developing a habit for mis-speaking the brand names of my gear; it IS a Flotec pump, and they are Hydro Innovations brand chiller boxes. I like their construction, and the bluish hydrophilic coating on the fins seems like it will help both longevity and perhaps will also reduce the need for a dehuey, which I have anyway. On this subject, would it make sense to plumb a special duct from the dehuey to an iceflow box, just to keep it from heating the room? I run CO2 tanks instead of burners, the magnetic ballasts are all outside of the room and the hoods are aircooled, so I'm thinkin' the dehuey might just be the largest single point source of heat left in the room!

3. Okay, will do.

4. Yep, you mentioned that in the other thread, so it looks like an upgrade will be in order. Hope the stainless is as easy to bend...

5. The heat is thankfully nearly over for this year, although this August is the hottest on record for Colorado and we're all sweltering in the city! My friends in the hills definitely have it made.

6. The return from the chiller- the only item connected to a smaller port on the front of the pump- drains directly back into the res., it just seemed logical to do that. Thanks for confirming my engineer's gut feeling.

7. I didn't have a lot of parts to choose from when building my manifolds, so I ended up with stuff that's the same size in and out. I believe I compensated reaosnably well by simply making sure there's as little restriction as possible throughout the entire system, like I said, stepping down from 1" tubing off the pump to 3/4" to the rooms, then 1/2" tubing from each manifold to each served component, and then the same in reverse, all the way back to the res. If the aim of a larger return system is equal flow, I'm reasonably sure that my system will meet that specification. I will try to get some pics of the manifolds and stuff, so you can lay an eyeball on what I've done.

2. LOL, that’s cool. The hydrophilic fins actually increase the heat exchange and keep down corrosion (like you mentioned increasing longevity). These shouldn’t help your dehu because the Ice Boxes weren’t designed to dehumidify. In a typical setup the water temperature on the chiller should be set just above dew point to prevent condensation. If you run the Ice Boxes below dew point your hoses, manifolds, and Ice Boxes will be dripping water, not the ideal situation. I wouldn’t worry too much about ducting the dehu, not really worth it. If the heat is being released in to your garden then it will eventually pass through an Ice Box anyway. Now with that said if you are having troubles keeping the temps down in the garden for lack of heat exchange surface area then yes I would consider ducting it. Doing so will increase the efficiency of the Ice Box the heat is sent through but may not be necessary.

4. Stainless steel isn’t easy to roll, I’ll tell you that up front. Have you seen the coolcoils from HI? They are rolled stainless steel coils with hoses, adpaters, etc. for $150 each, you would only need 2.

5. We had 70 days over 100 degrees here, hottest summer ever recorded. I’m over it, if next summer is like this I’m getting the hell out of here.

7. Ok cool, I should explain better the reason for the upsize return manifold. Lets say you have 6 pieces of equipment with 6 different length hoses to each. This equipment is installed on a supply and return manifold of the same size. Water will naturally follow to the path of least resistance, which will be the shortest run of hose. So basically the shorter the hose the more flow you will get through that device, and in turn the longest run will get the least amount of flow. When you run a pressurized supply manifold and an upsized return manifold you create a pressure drop at the return. With this pressure drop you create equal restriction through each device, there will no longer be a path of least resistance….all equalized. There are 2 ways to fix this in your situation, one way is to make sure that all of your hoses are the same length OR you can put valves on each port and check the GPM on the return lines….use the valves to restrict the flow of some to increase the flow of the others.

 

[ttystikk]

7. Ok cool, I should explain better the reason for the upsize return manifold. Lets say you have 6 pieces of equipment with 6 different length hoses to each. This equipment is installed on a supply and return manifold of the same size. Water will naturally follow to the path of least resistance, which will be the shortest run of hose. So basically the shorter the hose the more flow you will get through that device, and in turn the longest run will get the least amount of flow. When you run a pressurized supply manifold and an upsized return manifold you create a pressure drop at the return. With this pressure drop you create equal restriction through each device, there will no longer be a path of least resistance….all equalized. There are 2 ways to fix this in your situation, one way is to make sure that all of your hoses are the same length OR you can put valves on each port and check the GPM on the return lines….use the valves to restrict the flow of some to increase the flow of the others.

I went the valves route. I should really take a few shots of the manifolds, they were relatively inexpensive to build and I included valves on all the outlets originally to have the capability of doing maintenance on any component circuit without having to shut down the entire chiller system to do it.

 

[ttystikk]

2. LOL, that’s cool. The hydrophilic fins actually increase the heat exchange and keep down corrosion (like you mentioned increasing longevity). These shouldn’t help your dehu because the Ice Boxes weren’t designed to dehumidify. In a typical setup the water temperature on the chiller should be set just above dew point to prevent condensation. If you run the Ice Boxes below dew point your hoses, manifolds, and Ice Boxes will be dripping water, not the ideal situation. I wouldn’t worry too much about ducting the dehu, not really worth it. If the heat is being released in to your garden then it will eventually pass through an Ice Box anyway. Now with that said if you are having troubles keeping the temps down in the garden for lack of heat exchange surface area then yes I would consider ducting it. Doing so will increase the efficiency of the Ice Box the heat is sent through but may not be necessary.

4. Stainless steel isn’t easy to roll, I’ll tell you that up front. Have you seen the coolcoils from HI? They are rolled stainless steel coils with hoses, adpaters, etc. for $150 each, you would only need 2.

5. We had 70 days over 100 degrees here, hottest summer ever recorded. I’m over it, if next summer is like this I’m getting the hell out of here.

7. Ok cool, I should explain better the reason for the upsize return manifold. Lets say you have 6 pieces of equipment with 6 different length hoses to each. This equipment is installed on a supply and return manifold of the same size. Water will naturally follow to the path of least resistance, which will be the shortest run of hose. So basically the shorter the hose the more flow you will get through that device, and in turn the longest run will get the least amount of flow. When you run a pressurized supply manifold and an upsized return manifold you create a pressure drop at the return. With this pressure drop you create equal restriction through each device, there will no longer be a path of least resistance….all equalized. There are 2 ways to fix this in your situation, one way is to make sure that all of your hoses are the same length OR you can put valves on each port and check the GPM on the return lines….use the valves to restrict the flow of some to increase the flow of the others.

No problem at all. Assuming that the system works fine with your current setup AND the chiller doesn't have to run much during the lights off cycle to maintain room temp....then yes I think that you would be fine with the same system on a flip flop. It will all depend on your air cooling actually. This would be a VERY energy efficient setup and should really kick ass.

Hydro Innovations just released their own line of energy efficient pumps that you might want to consider, especially if you haven't installed it yet. I have one already and I replaced my 1/2 flotec pump with it. The flotec uses about 10 amps and this new pump uses only 3 amps and actually outflows the flotec by about 3000 GPH. The flotec has an AO Smith motor which is a very reliable motor, the new pump has a high effeicency Baldor motor that is equally as badass. Its really quiet too but its not cheap.

I don't have a lot of money to spend on precoiled stainless steel, so I'm stuck with trying to roll out my own coils. Any ideas on how to do it with stuff I might have around the house?

Can you send me a link to the pump you mentioned? I'm none too thrilled with the idea of spending 10amps on waterhandling 24/7...

 

[aSilvrHaze]

http://www.nybrewsupply.com/products/wort-chiller-stainless-steel-immersion.php $70 for a 50' coil. Even less for a 25' coil.

 

[ttystikk]

Wow- 70 days over 100 degrees doesn't just mean it's time to get the hell out of there, it means you're already IN hell! Pack your bags and come to Colorado, my friend!

 

[Chillville]

I don't have a lot of money to spend on precoiled stainless steel, so I'm stuck with trying to roll out my own coils. Any ideas on how to do it with stuff I might have around the house?

Can you send me a link to the pump you mentioned? I'm none too thrilled with the idea of spending 10amps on waterhandling 24/7...

Sorry I missed this post for a few days. Honestly they would be very hard for you to roll the stainless yourself unless you made a tool, way to time consuming.

Here is a link to the pump
Innovations High Efficiency Pumps&pro=31