HOW TO WATER COCO FOR BEST RESULTS.

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Aqua Man

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Ok Aqua we are going to disagree on this one. Go back and look at the leaves one more time. You will see the deformed leaves at the new growth. IMO he needs to do the exact opposite. The plants are locking out because of a lack of Calcium and Magnesium.
I dont see any signs of lockout bro for either cal or mag. Light can look like mag. My reasoning is this.

Tips curled upwards. The portions that are light like the tips are turning purple and that's anthocyanins caused by high light intensity. The slight bleaching between the veins is light bleaching not mag deficiency. Mag is mobile and will be low down on the plant. CA is semi mobile and will be on the upper portion generally in a spotting pattern.

Oh and the top leaves folding
Just the reasons I say what I say bro.
 
justice8965

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Your understanding of this particular growing method is limited at best.

justice8965
My issue seems to be an imbalance of my nutrient ratios, probably causing a lockout. I'm looking for help identifying the issue so I can adjust my feed.


I use the same product line as you with some variation. ~600ppm is where I end up on the mix. I have had a problems similar to yours before and to correct it I went to an automated feed cycle. Prior to that I was doing things manually, mixing 5 gallon batches and hand watering. It was ok with 5 gallon pots but once I switched down to 2 gallon pots any inconsistency allowed the coco to dry out. By putting in a reservoir and pump I could dial in exactly what I needed to do a full flood twice daily, and two smaller feedings in between each of those. I also grow larger plants which in smaller pots is even less forgiving.

Second thing is PH drift. Even if you are only letting a batch sit 24 - 48 hours the drift can be brutal. To keep everything that super nice dark green you need to keep that PH as consistent as possible with every fertigation event.

Last, be aware of needing to flush that medium if you are in a very long growing cycle (120+ days) because you will get buildup. Even with multiple feed lines off the pump there are still areas in the pot that dry out. I usually do a full flush with GH FloraKleen one time during the growing cycle, and thats usually a few weeks into flower. Especially towards the last half of the grow there is nothing wrong with mixing up a few gallons of PH adjusted, clean water and hand pouring it over each pot to completely flood and flush. Not a lot, just once in a while between normal fertigation events.

Are you me? haha my first two grows were in 5 gal hand watering twice a day. This auto watering makes me feel like I'm not doing any work.

My ph sits right around 5.8-6 at all times. I have a continuous monitor in the res so i know constantly.
 
justice8965

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Hey brother... need some pruning lower the cal mag by half and raise the lights up or lower the intensity a bit.

What makes you think too much calmag?

100% this. And to add airflow is absolutely most important under and through the canopy. If you have roots growing out of the pots @Dirtbag nailed the reason why.

Interesting, i didn't realize the root growth wasn't a great sign. I will throw some clip ons under the canopy tonight.

Gotta say, I tend to agree with this. Multiple daily feeds really shines when the root mass is condensed into a small package. It depends on how much dryback he's getting but plants that size, I'd be cautious multifeeding more than once or twice per day. Is the nutrient solution sterile or being treated in some way? Peroxide or beneficial fungi? I missed it in the post, I'll go back and re-read it.

Planting into 2 gal of coco and multifeeding is kind of like planting into a hugo block. In my mind it should be handled differently than growing from a 3" delta block or 1 gal pot of coco.

I use 2ml/gal hydroguard. I also plan to drain and clean the res with h202 every two weeks.

I'm certain thise plants issues are airflow and lights with light being the main culprit. Especially because the leaves are turning purple after bleaching... dead give away.

Yep, those 3 LEDs are bright. I raised them up to max height a few days ago, and turned them down to about 60% intensity

I dont see any signs of lockout bro for either cal or mag. Light can look like mag. My reasoning is this.

Tips curled upwards. The portions that are light like the tips are turning purple and that's anthocyanins caused by high light intensity. The slight bleaching between the veins is light bleaching not mag deficiency. Mag is mobile and will be low down on the plant. CA is semi mobile and will be on the upper portion generally in a spotting pattern.

Oh and the top leaves folding
Just the reasons I say what I say bro.

This makes total sense. I was wondering what those strange little purple tips were. Never seen that before. Maybe I'll turn the lights down a bit more and see how they respond.

Plan to finish this week at 4x/water a day, then 5x next week, then flip the lights and do 6x till harvest. Even with the issues, the plants doubled in size in 7 days when I started 3x a day. Very impressive
 
Aqua Man

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What makes you think too much calmag?



Interesting, i didn't realize the root growth wasn't a great sign. I will throw some clip ons under the canopy tonight.



I use 2ml/gal hydroguard. I also plan to drain and clean the res with h202 every two weeks.



Yep, those 3 LEDs are bright. I raised them up to max height a few days ago, and turned them down to about 60% intensity



This makes total sense. I was wondering what those strange little purple tips were. Never seen that before. Maybe I'll turn the lights down a bit more and see how they respond.

Plan to finish this week at 4x/water a day, then 5x next week, then flip the lights and do 6x till harvest. Even with the issues, the plants doubled in size in 7 days when I started 3x a day. Very impressive
Go by the run off numbers. I'd say they can handle 600-800ppm. Remove the oldest largest fan leafs to open up air flow. Twnps around 80f and 55% RH as I find the more indoca leaners like it a bit drier. Concentrate on airflow under and through thw canopy not the top or top down.

Check runoff numbers and amounts daily until you get it dialed in.

Oh and some info on the purpling.


 
Aqua Man

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So if ya want to bring out the colors of your bud wait until the end of flowering drop temps below 70 and hit that light pretty hard.

This shows the progression of doing so. Reducing the feed after swelling, cooler temps and keeping light high.
 
justice8965

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Go by the run off numbers. I'd say they can handle 600-800ppm. Remove the oldest largest fan leafs to open up air flow. Twnps around 80f and 55% RH as I find the more indoca leaners like it a bit drier. Concentrate on airflow under and through thw canopy not the top or top down.

Check runoff numbers and amounts daily until you get it dialed in.

Oh and some info on the purpling.



Runoff is around 250ppm lower than inflow. I have defoliated/pruned them some, as I do in all my grows. I strip everything below the net.

These are indicas. Just checked my monitor, 71/70% lights on, 66/80 with the lights off. Do you think it'd be worth setting up my dehumidifier? That would raise temps a bit and lower the RH.

Cool resources, I'll read through them now.

Also, I raised the lights to 30in, dimmed them some, and added 4 fans below the canopy

20210720_182109.jpg
20210720_182117.jpg
 
Aqua Man

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Runoff is around 250ppm lower than inflow. I have defoliated/pruned them some, as I do in all my grows. I strip everything below the net.

These are indicas. Just checked my monitor, 71/70% lights on, 66/80 with the lights off. Do you think it'd be worth setting up my dehumidifier? That would raise temps a bit and lower the RH.

Cool resources, I'll read through them now.

Also, I raised the lights to 30in, dimmed them some, and added 4 fans below the canopy

View attachment 1147978 View attachment 1147979
Yea I would set it up and increase the feed ppm to 600-700ppm. Sounds like you may need to feed more often if the run off is that low. I would say it's more elikely a lack of nutrients than any sort of lockout.

Back the light up until you make all these adjustments then it's likely you will be able to increase the light significantly

So targets are 80F/55%Rh day and 70-75F/55% or lower lights off.

Ppm in 600-700. In 2 gal feed 500ml every time. If you feed 500mk and don't get 50ml of runoff then add 1 feeding per day spaced out during the light cycle.

At 1 point I was feeding 14x a day bit in 2 gal you won't need that many. It is important to feed 500ml so you can gauge the amount of runoff to adjust your fertigation frequency. This is one of those things you should stick to or you won't get an accurate reflection of what the plant wants.
 
Justlovetogrow

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So I need some [email protected] I’ve been told I’m over watering my thc bomb due to it having crinkled leaves and stunted I have been watering twice per day to runoff after advice I have knocked it back to 1 feed a day is this right? It’s only a couple weeks old so I didn’t think it was stunted but the leaves have swelled up and gone a bit bumpy?
 
Aqua Man

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So I need some [email protected] I’ve been told I’m over watering my thc bomb due to it having crinkled leaves and stunted I have been watering twice per day to runoff after advice I have knocked it back to 1 feed a day is this right? It’s only a couple weeks old so I didn’t think it was stunted but the leaves have swelled up and gone a bit bumpy?
See the leaves... thats heat/light stress. Like mine here.
20201030_195554.jpg


See how dark they are? That'd either to much nutrients or to much dry back causing nutrients to be come concentrated.

What's the media and ratio of perlite?
 
Justlovetogrow

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See the leaves... thats heat/light stress. Like mine here. View attachment 1148008

See how dark they are? That'd either to much nutrients or to much dry back causing nutrients to be come concentrated.

What's the media and ratio of perlite?
It’s a 60-40 coco perlite blend from hydro coir the light is old school as batwing 600watt it’s hung pretty high atm bout 25 inches cause I though the same thing light stress temps are the best I’ve had em 24-25degrees Celsius light on between 20-21 lights off humidity pretty stable at about 60 which I thought is good for veg? I did up my ec to 1.4 as I saw slight yellowing in lower leaf thc bomb is a notorious big eater of nitrogen Run off numbers slightly lower than what is going in like 1.2 ec ph pretty stable at 5.9 thanx for your help Aquaman I appreciate it👍also 1 last thing I do go from solo cups to finishing pot could that have something to do with it?
 
Aqua Man

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It’s a 60-40 coco perlite blend from hydro coir the light is old school as batwing 600watt it’s hung pretty high atm bout 25 inches cause I though the same thing light stress temps are the best I’ve had em 24-25degrees Celsius light on between 20-21 lights off humidity pretty stable at about 60 which I thought is good for veg? I did up my ec to 1.4 as I saw slight yellowing in lower leaf thc bomb is a notorious big eater of nitrogen Run off numbers slightly lower than what is going in like 1.2 ec ph pretty stable at 5.9 thanx for your help Aquaman I appreciate it👍
I'd say drop to about 1.0 EC for a week or 2. Raise the light to 30" its likely heat stress from HID as it puts off infrared. It's the leaf temps that really matter. IR will warm the leaves. If you put your hand on top of the plants you will likely feel the IR warming I'm talking about.

How many gal pots?
 
Justlovetogrow

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I'd say drop to about 1.0 EC for a week or 2. Raise the light to 30" its likely heat stress from HID as it puts off infrared. It's the leaf temps that really matter. IR will warm the leaves. If you put your hand on top of the plants you will likely feel the IR warming I'm talking about.

How many gal pots?
The pots are like 39 litres not sure on gallons from Australia😂 I will back off ec and lift the light and c how I go cheers heaps👍The reason I use such big pots is I only grow 1 or 2 plants at a time for me n the mrs to smoke so being an outdoor grower most my life I just assume big pots equals big roots equals big plants 🤷‍♂️ Is there a good monitor to get leaf temps? C I put my hygrometer and temp gage at pot level which prob ain’t giving me an accurate reading of the actual leaf temp
 
AmokNewb

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So if ya want to bring out the colors of your bud wait until the end of flowering drop temps below 70 and hit that light pretty hard.

This shows the progression of doing so. Reducing the feed after swelling, cooler temps and keeping light high.
I am in a colder basement even in summer months and I plan on doing this for my first run..
 
Aqua Man

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The pots are like 39 litres not sure on gallons from Australia😂 I will back off ec and lift the light and c how I go cheers heaps👍The reason I use such big pots is I only grow 1 or 2 plants at a time for me n the mrs to smoke so being an outdoor grower most my life I just assume big pots equals big roots equals big plants 🤷‍♂️ Is there a good monitor to get leaf temps? C I put my hygrometer and temp gage at pot level which prob ain’t giving me an accurate reading of the actual leaf temp
So at 10 gal I would be feeding 2 litres at a time. And want aboit 200ml run off. About 1.0 ec for now. Uts likely only once every 2 days or so. Feed at lights on and make sure the water is temp adjusted.

Imo this pots are to big for your needs. I think if water frequently is an issue a 5 gal would be plenty big.

When you water water the entire surface.

Then collect the runoff over the next 30 min. If it's less than 200ml then add 1 feeding. So if was every 2 days then do every day. But imo with that plant in that pot. Probably once every 2-3 days. But let the runoff tell you. Always feed with 2 litres of nutrient solution.
 
Pondracer

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Your plants and trellis netting are a lot shorter than mine. This is an old pic right around when I flipped the last run. The in tank PH monitor and a dosing pump are on the list for the next upgrade but I probably won't do another round until winter.
 
jguit

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OK! That does it! =P This thread has convinced me to get off my lazy ass and set up a new small automatic watering DTW Coco system. I'll start a new thread and perhaps some of you can help me design it properly.
 
mikethegrower

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I would have to disagree a wet dry cycle is for soil... the reason being soil cannot stay saturated and provide adequate o2. Soil is a balancing act of water nutrients and o2... inorder to achieve that we need a wet dry cycle or they don't get all of those

If you treat coco like soil it will grow but you also get soil like results.

In pure hydro which is much faster than soil the roots are completely submerged.

I have not seen or read any evidence (excluding bro science) that says coco needs a wet dry cycle. Soil yes for the reason I explained... bit this is not soil.

If it works for ya that's great. Maybe one day you will give high fertigation coco a try and compare.
I'm currently using coco char coir biopots. Giving them around 2 gallons of water to expand them. This soaks them. You're saying not to let dry and keep at 90-100%. When would you first feed veg plants nutrients?

Before when growing in coco, we would soak the pots and let dry out. At that point we would start feeding nutrients. Normally this would be day 3 of veg.
 
justice8965

justice8965

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I'm currently using coco char coir biopots. Giving them around 2 gallons of water to expand them. This soaks them. You're saying not to let dry and keep at 90-100%. When would you first feed veg plants nutrients?

Before when growing in coco, we would soak the pots and let dry out. At that point we would start feeding nutrients. Normally this would be day 3 of veg.

Never let coco dry. The more saturated the better. Feed them right away. Coco is an inert medium, there are no nutrients other than what you put in. I usually give my coco a good flush with just water before planting, then water with my feed solution after transplant. My goal being to get the coco in the exact conditions I want it to transplant into.
 
Aqua Man

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I'm currently using coco char coir biopots. Giving them around 2 gallons of water to expand them. This soaks them. You're saying not to let dry and keep at 90-100%. When would you first feed veg plants nutrients?

Before when growing in coco, we would soak the pots and let dry out. At that point we would start feeding nutrients. Normally this would be day 3 of veg.
Nutrients from the start. For th first week or 2 depending on the pot size they may only need watered once a day or maybe even 2 days
 

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