I need a good fast method to make glycerin based BHO tincture for vaporizing

  • Thread starter Justin Eastling
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Justin Eastling

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Hello everyone,

I have been experimenting with glycerin and BHO. I can not for the life of me get them to mix. I do not want to let the mix sit for three months.
Does any one have a fast and healthy way to make a very strong tincture using BHO for vaporizing?
 
Ever after

Ever after

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vaporizing??????????? a tinchure????????? are you triping on acid? what you talking about mang
 
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Justin Eastling

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http://www.invalid.com/cooking-cannabis/313264-odorless-electronic-joint.html
 
J

Justin Eastling

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V.G. Is what is used as the artificial smoke in e-cigs. Just so happens to be a very popular non-alcoholic medium used for tincture. The problem is that it does not absorb the T.H.C. Quickly. But I have seen a few companies here in Colorado who have figured out how to make it work and have been making a good living from charging people $20 for 1.1 milliliters of this T.H.C. e-liquid.
 
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Justin Eastling

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I like the idea of vaping a e-cig filled with MMJ in public. If you are in a state with MMJ or an area where you have access to butane extracted hash you can experiment with different methods. I since have figured out a couple methods. essential oils that are safe for human consumption are great carriers for the T.H.C. they also have many health benefits that differ from oil to oil. Orange peal extract works the beast as far as taste and covering the smell of the B.H.O. (butane honey oil).
 
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montroller

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So d-limonene as a tincture then put it into an e-cig cartridge?

How long do you let it sit for and what is the ratio of limonene to BHO? Do you reduce it when it is dissolved?
 
TexBud

TexBud

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To make V.G. tincture I use;
1g of plant material to 2tsp vg. Concentrates (hash/bho/ect) 1/4g to 1tsp or 1/2g to 2tsp. Placed at low heat (150f-250f) for 4-6 hours stirring about every 30min. Coffee filter to strain any plant material out (leave this step out for concentrates) let cool and use as you see fit! We add this mixture to empty pill containers. I have not used in e-cig but I have heard and seen it done! It will be hard to "reduce" when it's in the veggie glycerine its not like alcohol and other solvents that are ezy to reduce. There is really no reason to reduce if your mixture is right. The mixture I just stated is maximum. The glycerine can not take on any more of the cannabis in the transfer.

BTW tsp=teaspoon NOT tablespoon

Hope that helps,
 
J

Justin Eastling

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Montroller. I double boiled the lemon orange mix in a vile to warm it and dissolved the bho in. as soon as it dissolved i pulled it off the heat. it did reduce the oil some what, but not that much.

TexBud. Thank you for the recipe.
 
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montroller

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Thank you both Justin and Tex. I have some failed absolute laying around that could probably be put to use this way.
 
Graywolf

Graywolf

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I've never been able to bet BHO and glycerin to readily mix either, but read that adding lecithin helps. Never tried it, just passing it on.

We make our VG tincture using direct extraction with the glycerin inself.
 
squiggly

squiggly

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Glycerin is an extremely polar molecule, its not going to readily dissolve THC for the same reason that water won't.

Lecithin is an extremely large molecule with polar AND non polar parts--in this way it will act as a soap would, reducing surface tension, and increasing solubility of non polar molecules. This property of being both polar and non polar (most soaps/detergents fall into this category) is called amphipathicity. E.g. lecithin is an amphiphile. This is why doping glycerol with it will allow thc to become soluble--much in the same way that adding detergent to water makes oil soluble in it.

In order to dissolve a non polar molecule like THC, glycerol (by itself) would have to form highly ordered structures called clathrates around pockets of the non polar material. This is not entropically favored and that translates to exclusion of oils by polar solvents--clathrates are still formed (imagine an oil droplet in water), but without homogeneous mixing the substituents will separate out according to their densities.

This is why we can create an oil/water suspension and watch it separate back out. What you're seeing there is millions of tiny clathritic structures, gradually forming larger and larger ones as the water works to exclude the insoluble oil. When we're talking thermodynamics like this, things will tend to go the path of least resistance--in this case the water only gets to stop making these advanced entropically expensive structures is if it gets the hell away from that oil, and so it does.

This is really an extremely powerful interaction--it is essentially the reason that everything about life works. Protein folding has MANY aspects to it (ion bridges, covalent modification, disulfide bonds) but despite the many different ways they are held together--the hydrophobic interactions taking place outweigh them all combined.

I'd be amazed if someone did get THC dissolved in glycerol. If it did happen, you'd probably need absolutely pure THC and you would certainly need an ass ton of heat--probably more than the THC could handle.
 
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Justin Eastling

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I have seen and tested many V.G. tinctures that work quite well. I also have tried and proved the e-cig method.
Agree to disagree.
 
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pirobot668

5
3
Hello everyone,

I have been experimenting with glycerin and BHO. I can not for the life of me get them to mix. I do not want to let the mix sit for three months.
Does any one have a fast and healthy way to make a very strong tincture using BHO for vaporizing?

Hi!
I have been doing some research with using hot glycerin extractions, and have found a 90 second extraction technique that might work with BHO. Yeah, 90 second extraction!!!!

I dry the buds (Sour Diesel, too damn strong for me to smoke!) then gently reduce to fine duff.
I used 9 grams dried herb and 4 fl. oz. of Organic Veg. Glycerin.
Heated glycerin to 350 F (! Like I know, right?) with WINDOWS OPEN! Heating to these temps WILL make clouds of sweet vapors. Not a hazard per se, but the vapors condense on EVERYTHING, so air-flow is a must.
Added herb in small amounts over thirty seconds, lots of stirring. Very smelly at this point, work fast!!!! Some boil-up when herb added; CO2 from decarboxylation, other out-gassing????
Continued stirring for about 30 seconds after last herb goes in, then immediately poured glycerine/herb slurry into pre-heated press + strainer (70 micron mesh). Pressed slurry through mesh, capturing glycerin in room-temp container.
On cooling, tincture was pretty thick, nearly black, and smelled like 'vape', about 1 oz. of glycerine remained in herbals.
Had to dilute it with equal volume of fresh glycerin to make it work in an eye-dropper, total about five fl. oz.
Final appearance of the tincture is dark orange-amber in color, milky translucent, sweet scent and flavor. Tastes like buds and 'vape' at the same time. Deeply relaxing, sedating, great pain killer. Not much 'buzz'. Unless you smoke on top of tincture sedation, then is almost psychedelic....


Bottom line: I did not really use the glycerin as a solvent so much as a host-liquid for the vaporized THC!!!!

So, if you are feeling brave, heat up some glycerin to 310-325 (used Candy Thermometer), drop in small beads of BHO, stir in quickly, and cool it quickly.
as always, your milage may vary.
 
Graywolf

Graywolf

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Glycerin is easy to extract with, just doesn't mix readily with all of the components in a BHO or QWET extraction. Since my last post on this thread, we were able to fully emulsify 24 grams of winterized BHO into 39 grams of VG, using a CAT Scientific homogenizer.
 
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pirobot668

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Howdy, Graywolf!
The true solubility of THC into glycerol is about 1/3 that of ethanol. Ethanol/THC can dissolve 1:1.
By theory, one should be able to dissolve about 1/3 gm. THC into a gram of glycerol.
But as the THC dissolves into glycerol, the glycerol becomes less efficient, to the point where it just won't dissolve more product, even though the theoretical max is not reached.
Mechanical agitation (shaking, vibration, homogenization) can drive more into solution, or even into suspension.

My intent is to vaporize the THC while having the plant-matter immersed in glycerol.

Glycerol boils at about 550 F, THC around 320 F, CBD about 360 F.
By passing a quantity of hot glycerin (around 350 F) through the plant matter quickly (think mutant espresso-machine), the essential bits vaporize (much finer division than your very capable homogenizer) into the oxygen-free liquid carrier, which passes directly into a cooling receptacle.
What keeps the THC in the hot liquid?
[see discussions of vapor pressure, binary liquids, interaction potentials and all that stuff. Simple terms: THC is molecularly 'sticky', even in vapor form. Glycerin is sort of sticky, as far as the THC is concerned. If things in a mixture are mutually sticky, the vapor temp will go up. THC + glycerol vaporization temp is somewhat higher than pure THC vapor temp, so the hot liquid extract does not cook-off the THC prior to cooling, under the right conditions.]

As the vapor condenses, it has naught to cling to but the glycerol and other TCH molecular clumps.
Initial extract is thick and tar-like on cooling, has to be diluted a fair amount to make it dropper friendly.
As a test, I added four droppers of diluted extract to 6 fl. oz. of cold water, shook it up to mix, and let stand for an hour.
Mixture was cloudy, no discernible droplets or oil-slick on the surface.
No sign of separation or banding of any kind, smells like buds/'vape', and tastes mostly like faintly sweet water. Still packs a punch.
BTW, I am writing THC, but am referring to all cannabinoids present.
Not saying homogenizing is bad: whatever gets the medicine where it needs must go is a good thing.
Just trying a different approach.
 
Mr. Molecule

Mr. Molecule

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I've been studying this subject as well recently in anticipation of trying out e-cig vaporization. What I am currently wondering is whether it's possible to dissolve BHO into a 70/30 (PG/VG) or 50/50 blend. I'm a little worried that 100% PG might be too rough on my throat and lungs (I've heard that VG is much mellower).
 
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pirobot668

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Hi!
As I have learned some more, it looks like one of the stumbling blocks for cannabinoids dissolution into glycerol is those pesky terpenes.
These give the herb its scent, and account for 20-60% of the total mass of BHO. Your mileage may vary.
Long story short, remove the terpenes, the cannabinoids will do 'the right thing' in glycerin.
I tried this:
Dissolved BHO (unknown origin) in eth:water 90:10 (182 proof Everclear. Had been left open...).
Froze soln to 0F (home freezer) two hours. Filter cold. Got some myrcean, smells like Thyme.
Heated small quantity glycerol to 250 F, squirted small squirts of soln forcefully into glycerol.
Each squirt boiled up, then settled down.
Lots of stirring after each squirt.
Dark oily layer form on surface. Freeze again, collect oily scum.
Hmmm. Gycerin is looking orange-ish...
Repeat the dissolve, heat, squirt, freeze, scum routine three more times.
Each pass, the oily stuff is somewhat smaller, the glycerin somewhat darker.
Finally blazed up some of the oily junk: tastes like BHO, not much buzz.
Vaped some glycerin (cut with 25% propylene glycol as thinner); buzzed.
This process is smelly, no doubt lots of waste, but it does suggest that terpene removal/reduction will
help with dissolving THC into glycerol.
 
Mr. Molecule

Mr. Molecule

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Thanks for that report, pirobot. What I'm wondering though is whether BHO will dissolve in a mix of propylene glycol and glycerine due to the propylene glycol, which from my reading BHO seems to be able to dissolve into (in reasonably small proportion).

And naturally I'm talking about staying mixed after coming back to room temp. Of course BHO will dissolve in hot PG (so I'm told, anyway), but I wonder if it will dissolve in hot PG+VG (say 70:30) and stay mixed after cooling. That's what's needed for these "glassomizers" it seems to me. It would obviously be no good if the BHO congealed out of the solution while in the tank.
 
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pirobot668

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3
I was able dissolve some of the BHO oily-stuff with room-temp PG, but on adding more than a few drops of glycerol, the clear solution got cloudy, and separation soon occurred. The terpenes (or whatever the oily goo is) seem to treat glycerol like it was water.
While it is not so nice on the lungs, one could conceivably dissolve BHO in PG + ethanol.
The alcohol would have to be dry (EverClear), and I read somewhere PG:ethanol 80:20 ratio was stable. Until it absorbs water from the air.....
 
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