I need some help diagnosing these please.

[dire wolf]

 

[Aqua Man]

@Beowuuulf you were bang on. Just for you info since you always willing to help people I'll explain how I look for over under watering.
Over watering will usually have swollen droopy leaves and the petioles (stem to the leaf) will usually be turgid (stiff) and still hold its normal shape for the most part. Have to wait for the media to dry and can take a while to bounce back

Underwatering will look like you sprayed a toxic chemical on it and it goes limp AF like it's dead. Everything droops. It looks way worse but usually bounces right back.

 

[Mrdudeman]

May aswell ask what nutrients or additives are you using?

How are you mixing them step by step?

What is the source water?

I was using fox farms grow big on them every other watering and w/ Cal Mag once a week. Water was getting PH'd to 5.5-5.8 for several weeks before changing to strict 6.0 this last couple weeks.

 

[Mrdudeman]

I treated with Cal Mag 5 ml per gallon, water PH'd to 6.0. They came back looking like this...

 

[Mrdudeman]

My growing partner is jumping on my head saying I'm over watering them and that they're also getting nutrient burn from feeding too much...
I'm doing more research to try and figure this out without blowing my brains out.
He also is "expressing doubts" about the validity of advice I'm getting here cause hes talking with a close friend/grower in CO who's also telling him they're over watered...
So I feel like my heads gonna pop off from turning it back and forth so much.
Are these leaves really showing nutrient burn and underwatering AND over watering?

 

[sambapati]

Okay then I'll try getting the humidity up, I'm just worried about mold becoming an issue, many of my teens are showing the claws curling downward, would humidity increases fix them as well?
Also, keeping humidity high in that environment where I'm running A.C. to constantly cool the room (which lowers humidity), keeping the humidity up with the temp lowered is a bit of a challenge, any quick/easy fixes for my rural self?
What's average optimum temp and humidity for a Veg room that's about 15x10, or just for Veg in general?

22-24 C during the day 26 at night. I am also running AC to constantly cool the room, but have a spray bottle with water when they look at bit crusty. I have 2 plants inside in airpots and have had good luck with giving them tonic water. I have soil, peat moss, perlite and coca coir mixed together, very afraid of having a hot mixture. Glad that the outside grow is going well and I like what you are doing with the scaffolding.

 

[Beowuuulf]

they're looking better.. in my opinion

 

[sambapati]

He cut my deck to the Queen of Spades but the cards were all the same....Why not get much better airflow get the shears going to all the plants and give them zero nutes for 1 week. In any scientific experiment you can only change 1 variable at a time. Remember that you are a learning animal and no doubt the plants will turn out OK.

 

[Mrdudeman]

Hey dude , what's happening with the plants in the background
They look really healthy , were they grown differently than your problem plants or am I seeing something wrong ....

Those in the background are the teens with clones and seedlings, I'll post pics of the entire room in a bit to give you a wide area view of what I'm working with.

 

[Aqua Man]

I treated with Cal Mag 5 ml per gallon, water PH'd to 6.0. They came back looking like this...View attachment 991858View attachment 991859View attachment 991860

Did you run 700ppm feed through them after to get equal runoff to what you added?

You buddy is wrong 100% wrong and I would invite his CO friend to make an account and have a discussion because IF he actually said that he is 100% wrong too. THIS IS NOT SOIL.

You will see every single leaf with damage get worse. Leaves do NOT repair themselves once damaged.

Idk what to tell ya. How did thier advice work for you so far?

It's going to take a week or so to get this back on track. Nothing like this gets fixed on a day. If you have enzymes I would use them and there is also likely root damage from letting them dry out and creating a high salinity low ph environment that can burn the roots.

It's your call man but really ask how well thier advice has worked for this grow. I know I'm just a guy on a forum and it's a lot to risk to trust some random guy over ppl you know. So its your call but what I'm telling you is what you need to do

 

[Aqua Man]

Give me a hour or 2. I will give you a full rundown of worst and best case and options to the beat of my ability. I just have some work to get done.

First thing lower the light intensity. You don't drive sick plants hard

 

[Beachwalker]

I treated with Cal Mag 5 ml per gallon, water PH'd to 6.0. They came back looking like this...View attachment 991858View attachment 991859View attachment 991860

Have you flush these out?

 

[Beachwalker]

Yes, although I must say I'm liking the coco much better than the potting soil I was using before, I really need to know how much saturation then, and preferably for how long, right now those NN's are consuming approx 42 OZ of water to get them decently wettened through, but it seems like they're drinking it up too fast and are still not getting enough and then are limp and sagging all over from needing more water, but then the above happens... -_-
Their soil is still moist, not soaking wet but damp at a quarter-inch or less depth. This is really vexing...

Right here tells me you're not watering properly, you're treating it like soil and that's what the problem is; let me tell you step-by-step what to do so you can save your plants

First you've got to flush the piss out of those to stop the burning! use three times the pots volume of 6.0 water for each plant; post a sample of the runoff PPM and pH numbers

Then do this..

 

[Aqua Man]

Right here tells me you're not watering properly, you're treating it like soil and that's what the problem is; let me tell you step-by-step what to do so you can save your plants

First you've got to flush the piss out of those to stop the burning! use three times the pots volume of 6.0 water for each plant; post a sample of the runoff PPM and pH numbers

Then do this..
View attachment 991912

Yup

 

[Mrdudeman]

Give me a hour or 2. I will give you a full rundown of worst and best case and options to the beat of my ability. I just have some work to get done.

First thing lower the light intensity. You don't drive sick plants hard

Can and will do, take as much time as you need, we're all busy with life and work.
I just want to say up front that I appreciate everything about you guys advice and all. It's just I'm not the owner of this nice little venture, I'm just a partner so I don't get final word. I'm just trying to keep things running as smoothly as I can manage it while learning via fire hose along the way in my spare time.
So once more, you are all amazing and I appreciate every bit of advice. Thank you.

 

[Aqua Man]

Can and will do, take as much time as you need, we're all busy with life and work.
I just want to say up front that I appreciate everything about you guys advice and all. It's just I'm not the owner of this nice little venture, I'm just a partner so I don't get final word. I'm just trying to keep things running as smoothly as I can manage it while learning via fire hose along the way in my spare time.
So once more, you are all amazing and I appreciate every bit of advice. Thank you.

Snacking now and clearing up some of the other posts that are a bit easier to answer. Then will get on it.

 

[Mrdudeman]

my veg room during dark hours.

the mother's table. Also under a Gavita 1700 e.

Clones, teens, and 2 sprouted from seeds.

And more teens. That's most of my growright now with plans of expansion soon.

The Mother Earth Coco+Perlite 50/50 mix is my current growth medium.

 

[Aqua Man]

Ok brand of cal mag?

 

[Aqua Man]

Ok so here we go. In coco as the plants get bigger they need more water and nutrients. Unlike soil you have control over the ppm/ EC and nutrient ratios of your media. What happens when you under water is the similar to soil except the coco dries much faster and holds much less water (this is why you see they need water so fast now there is less to begin with). Also unlike soil you can't over water it because it drains very well. First we need to get some facts straight.

***** Over watering is not too much water (this is absolutely a fact you need to understand) look at hydro the roots are constantly submerged and growth is amazing. So what is over watering? Its where the water saturates the root zone so much it inhibits the exchange of gasses and becomes depleted of oxygen as the plants and bacteria use it up. You will often see plants droop after watering in soil grows because of this and how long they stay like that is directly related to the drainage of the soil. In hydro we aerate the water. In coco the action of the water draining pulls in air and the gas exchange capacity beyond that id very good

In coco and especially a coco/perlite mix the drainage is amazing and therefore virtually impossible to over water. By watering frequently we keep a well aerated, stable PH, PPM/EC and nutrient ratio in the rootzone... just like hydro. ideally at this stage 800ppm of a well balanced nutrient.

Now what happens when we let the media dry out? well you can do some test to show your partners exactly how its affecting the roots but we will get to that in a min.

First the EC/ppm will rise because after evaporation and uptake by the plants (cause they don't take up water and nutrients at the same rate) there will be a high concentration of fertilizer. This is a lot more drastic then most people realize and can been seen by checking the runoff ppm (which i wish you did because it would have easily shown them this point but i forgot to ask ya to do that and now it will be much better)

So what does a high PPM/EC do? well first the salinity is of course greatly increased and that changes the osmotic pressure balance. water will flow from low salinity to the higher salinity through the roots. So when you have very high salinity you stop the plant from drinking and nutrient uptake.

Next nutrients are generally acidic and plants like a certain range of PH (fun fact PH is what burns you not the acid itself) Now the next thing that happens with the increased PPM/EC and salinity is the PH drops because of the nutrient make up we generally use and it can burn the roots causing actual physical damage. Add to that nutrients have certain PH's that make them more or less available to the plant and you now have reduced the ability for the plant to uptake water (further adding to the nutrient buildup) then possibly burned the roots and likely put most nutrient into an unavailable PH range locking the plant out completely.

So how do you see this in action? easily keep watering the way you are and test the runoff. You will see the PPM/EC go up PH drop and the plants look like they are dying and stop drinking all together.

Now you have already flushed so your ahead of the game and now its going to be about feeding properly. How do you do that well lets go over it.

you have 5gal coco pots.

Once fully saturated you should need 1/4 gal or 1 liter of water (with nutrients every single time, i suggest about 800ppm) to get 10-20% runoff. (100-200ml) If you get no runoff you know you need to feed more often and should add more until you get the 100-200ml. If you get more there is no issue negative consequence other than waste and you can ease up.. ALWAYS BETTER TO MUCH THAN TO LITTLE.

By doing this you eliminate what you have had happen and keep the most optimal conditions possible in terms of PPM/EC, PH and nutrient ratio.

Now go back and re read *****

 

[Aqua Man]

As for a test for PH since you already corrected the media add 1000 ppm of nutrients to a small amount water. then add 3000 to another and test the PH difference