I really need a show of hands....LED or HPS??

[JBloomers123]

I recently converted over to LED lighting AND started a new strain. the LED is a KIND600. It's a 300watt system that is supposed to be the equivalent as a 600watt HPS. 3 weeks into this strain being under the big lights i don't feel as though the plant is where it should be growth stage wise..
1. is is the strain ? [Creamsicle OG w. 8-10 week harvest time]?
2. or is it the LED lighting?
3. or is it the fact I didn't wait at least 6 weeks (so I've read) before taking new plants from seed from veg to Big lights?
4. OR am I just being impatient and I need to chill TF out?

I'm all ears - any and all suggestions, comments, experiences are welcome!

Thank you,

 

[MIMedGrower]

The more you veg the bigger and more bud sites the plant can grow.

And i dont think a 300w kind lamp will equal a 600 hps. Maybe a 400w metal halide.

On average figure the plants will double in size from final veg to full bloom. Triple for many sativa leaning hybrids.

Cant see color with the blurple light but she looks healthy and just starting to bloom. Nice!

 

[JBloomers123]

The more you veg the bigger and more bud sites the plant can grow.

And i dont think a 300w kind lamp will equal a 600 hps. Maybe a 400w metal halide.

On average figure the plants will double in size from final veg to full bloom. Triple for many sativa leaning hybrids.

Cant see color with the blurple light but she looks healthy and just starting to bloom. Nice!

I appreciate the response - thank you,

But what about for new plants from seeds? I read somewhere that new plants from seeds need at least 6 weeks of Veg lighting to ensure they're adults before going to 12/12 under the big lights. This isn't the first time i've grown from seeds but I forget if they were in the veg state for at least 6 weeks. and the yields were incredible (pic attached)

Seems to me they should be further along. The lighting might be deceiving - the buds are tiny @ 3 weeks old IMO. seems hard to believe I'll have nice tops in the nexts 5-6 weeks given this is all there further they are along after 3 weeks?

and I agree - i'm thinking the output on 600watt HPS is greater than the KINDL600. But I'm going to wait...maybe some magic will happen and they'll get a growth spurt of sorts ??

here is a top -1 of several :) from my last harvest with HPS. with a strain that has the same 8-9 week growth cycle.

couldd a hermaphrodite have the same bud size 3 weeks into growth?? (do they even have buds? that has crossed my mind as well.

thanks again,

 

[the rrock]

Very interesting as I was thinking of switching over to led, not much you can do but wait.If you have never grown this strain out it could go either way?%$%>? good luck Bloomer

 

[JBloomers123]

Very interesting as I was thinking of switching over to led, not much you can do but wait.If you have never grown this strain out it could go either way?%$%>? good luck Bloomer

Thanks man, anxious for the outcome and hopeful it wasn’t just a waste of 8-10 weeks.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I appreciate the response - thank you,

But what about for new plants from seeds? I read somewhere that new plants from seeds need at least 6 weeks of Veg lighting to ensure they're adults before going to 12/12 under the big lights. This isn't the first time i've grown from seeds but I forget if they were in the veg state for at least 6 weeks. and the yields were incredible (pic attached)

Seems to me they should be further along. The lighting might be deceiving - the buds are tiny @ 3 weeks old IMO. seems hard to believe I'll have nice tops in the nexts 5-6 weeks given this is all there further they are along after 3 weeks?

and I agree - i'm thinking the output on 600watt HPS is greater than the KINDL600. But I'm going to wait...maybe some magic will happen and they'll get a growth spurt of sorts ??

here is a top -1 of several :) from my last harvest with HPS. with a strain that has the same 8-9 week growth cycle.

couldd a hermaphrodite have the same bud size 3 weeks into growth?? (do they even have buds? that has crossed my mind as well.

thanks again,

With seeds we dont know what the plant will grow like or how long it will take to flower.

I like to veg to at least maturity so I know its female (or likely) and if I take cuttings they are already mature.

But you can grow a seed 12/12 to harvest. With sativa leaning hybrids I have gotten pretry big 5 oz dry plants. They still grow 3-4 weeks before flowering. Kinda like autos.

Hermies are a whole other subject and i dont see any male parts on your plant i. The pic.

So it could just be a short smaller phenotype. Vegging to maturity tends to shorten the wait for flowering too. Like you are on week 3. An 8 week version vegged may have done it in 2.

 

[Jimster]

I'veused MH/HPS combinations for decades and have great results from using both. I start under 2 X 1000w MH for vegging, then swap one MH out for a HPS, which made a big difference in weight and size. Both seeds started and clones work equally well. I think LEDs might be a little better at starting plants, but the MH/HPS are better for flowering nd vegging. My style of growing is more like outdoors than a SCROG, and I often see 6-7 ft plants indoors with enough top height and a lot of training branches. I'm old and a creature of habit, so I'm set in my ways...it won't be long until LED's will replace bulb lights, though...IMHO.

 

[Mr Bee]

I appreciate the response - thank you,

But what about for new plants from seeds? I read somewhere that new plants from seeds need at least 6 weeks of Veg lighting to ensure they're adults before going to 12/12 under the big lights. This isn't the first time i've grown from seeds but I forget if they were in the veg state for at least 6 weeks. and the yields were incredible (pic attached)

Seems to me they should be further along. The lighting might be deceiving - the buds are tiny @ 3 weeks old IMO. seems hard to believe I'll have nice tops in the nexts 5-6 weeks given this is all there further they are along after 3 weeks?

and I agree - i'm thinking the output on 600watt HPS is greater than the KINDL600. But I'm going to wait...maybe some magic will happen and they'll get a growth spurt of sorts ??

here is a top -1 of several :) from my last harvest with HPS. with a strain that has the same 8-9 week growth cycle.

couldd a hermaphrodite have the same bud size 3 weeks into growth?? (do they even have buds? that has crossed my mind as well.

thanks again,

Looks like that big cola being held was taken at least 2 weeks too early.

 

[10w30]

Seedling: 16 hours light, 8 hours darkness
Vegetative: 18 hours light, 6 hours darkness
Flowering: 12 hours light, 12 hours darkness
It is VERY important that you use different light cycles in different phases. This can really impact the growth of the plants.

just copy and pasting from another site, LED related.. its the first time reading 16hrs light vs 18 hours recommendation for seedlings. also temps apparently play a role in LED, 84 degrees was suggested by another farmer.

 

[Jimster]

Seedling: 16 hours light, 8 hours darkness
Vegetative: 18 hours light, 6 hours darkness
Flowering: 12 hours light, 12 hours darkness
It is VERY important that you use different light cycles in different phases. This can really impact the growth of the plants.

just copy and pasting from another site, LED related.. its the first time reading 16hrs light vs 18 hours recommendation for seedlings. also temps apparently play a role in LED, 84 degrees was suggested by another farmer.

I had an acquaintance who started his clones under the 16/8 and he had a lot of problem with misshapen plants. I guess the plants were sort of stuck between veg and flowering. 3 lobed leaves and tall, but not really good looking until they were reverted to full veg. I would guess that about 10 days of stalling resulted from the light cycles he chose to use, but whatever works...

 

[MidwestToker]

I had an acquaintance who started his clones under the 16/8 and he had a lot of problem with misshapen plants. I guess the plants were sort of stuck between veg and flowering. 3 lobed leaves and tall, but not really good looking until they were reverted to full veg. I would guess that about 10 days of stalling resulted from the light cycles he chose to use, but whatever works...

You do realize that equatorial cultivars never see more than 12.5 hours of light in nature period.

 

[Jimster]

You do realize that equatorial cultivars never see more than 12.5 hours of light in nature period.

Sure I do, as well as very extended periods in the northern climates. What you say it totally true, however. most tropical plants still show seasonal fruiting in two seasons a year, with a difference between the winter or summer season (depending on where you are ). I truthfully never considered how a seedling would grow on the equator, since there isn't much difference between winter/summer photoperiods. There must be another trigger besides photoperiod and the triggering of vegging/flowering.
I'm not sure why my buddy used 16/8 to start clones, however. Maybe because there was NO variation in light periods that caused the plants to be in eternal flux, but it was like they couldn't decide if they wanted to grow or flower. Soon there were 18"+ clones that were sorta half growing and have trying to flower. Like I mentioned, the entire plant was covered in 3 lobed leaves, with new growth coming in at weird angles. Sort of like trying to re-veg a plant that doesn't want to re-veg.
But I'm still wondering what would trigger a plant to flower in the tropics, when the light period doesn't change much over the seasons, like you pointed out. Hmmmm….

 

[Burned Haze]

I’m at 1.5-3ish per “ 1000w “4x4 rated for led’s ( and the quality is prime ) & 3rd round on led’s

* major thing I must highlight is less popcorn and leds improved on the quality % score . (If you use led’s)Plants will be more dominate and more form and if you got a proper environment ( the lights are 40% less heat , so look at 100 lights that’s 50 tons for hps (typical de hps btu is 6,000 btu or more ) versus typical btu requirements or even over rated 4,000 = 33.33 , which makes out to be 16 tons of saving of a.c your way ) just shows if you went on led’s That’s almost 50% savings on a/c and imagine the quality improvement /environmental stability in room improvements as well since the heat is reduced

* Anther negative factor on hps: every 1-2 seasons on hps you have to replace the hoods, bulbs and the spectrum/bulb degrades from the start ( look at a proper led brand where it can beat all those factors )

* also look at in the viewpoints of what I said to a rec person where 100 bulbs ain’t shit these days they are even talking 500-1000 bulbs + easy , that 40% energy/heat reduction and not having to do bulb’s/reflectors and maintenance ?

Just look at my journal ( all my de’s are in box’s and I tried to sell em 4x the price cause after my test of led’s I would honestly never go back )
That 40%. Improvement ( both heat and energy ) gave me the control to use the energy and control of the room to use a/c ( I have almost the same bills/cheaper as when I was doing de’s but now I can run better environment with a/c and other stuff and not worry lol )and the dehumidifier and misc things that are going to be using power . If you don’t believe me, check out my first page and look at my environment /info part ( first reply on thread )


If you want any brand recommends : Timber LED’s, hlg, fluence sci

 

[MidwestToker]

Sure I do, as well as very extended periods in the northern climates. What you say it totally true, however. most tropical plants still show seasonal fruiting in two seasons a year, with a difference between the winter or summer season (depending on where you are ). I truthfully never considered how a seedling would grow on the equator, since there isn't much difference between winter/summer photoperiods. There must be another trigger besides photoperiod and the triggering of vegging/flowering.
I'm not sure why my buddy used 16/8 to start clones, however. Maybe because there was NO variation in light periods that caused the plants to be in eternal flux, but it was like they couldn't decide if they wanted to grow or flower. Soon there were 18"+ clones that were sorta half growing and have trying to flower. Like I mentioned, the entire plant was covered in 3 lobed leaves, with new growth coming in at weird angles. Sort of like trying to re-veg a plant that doesn't want to re-veg.
But I'm still wondering what would trigger a plant to flower in the tropics, when the light period doesn't change much over the seasons, like you pointed out. Hmmmm….

The build up of phytochrome's is what initiates flowering.

 

[MidwestToker]

I’m at 1.5-3ish per “ 1000w “4x4 rated for led’s ( and the quality is prime ) & 3rd round on led’s

* major thing I must highlight is less popcorn and leds improved on the quality % score . (If you use led’s)Plants will be more dominate and more form and if you got a proper environment ( the lights are 40% less heat , so look at 100 lights that’s 50 tons for hps (typical de hps btu is 6,000 btu or more ) versus typical btu requirements or even over rated 4,000 = 33.33 , which makes out to be 16 tons of saving of a.c your way ) just shows if you went on led’s That’s almost 50% savings on a/c and imagine the quality improvement /environmental stability in room improvements as well since the heat is reduced

* Anther negative factor on hps: every 1-2 seasons on hps you have to replace the hoods, bulbs and the spectrum/bulb degrades from the start ( look at a proper led brand where it can beat all those factors )

* also look at in the viewpoints of what I said to a rec person where 100 bulbs ain’t shit these days they are even talking 500-1000 bulbs + easy , that 40% energy/heat reduction and not having to do bulb’s/reflectors and maintenance ?

Just look at my journal ( all my de’s are in box’s and I tried to sell em 4x the price cause after my test of led’s I would honestly never go back )
That 40%. Improvement ( both heat and energy ) gave me the control to use the energy and control of the room to use a/c ( I have almost the same bills/cheaper as when I was doing de’s but now I can run better environment with a/c and other stuff and not worry lol )and the dehumidifier and misc things that are going to be using power . If you don’t believe me, check out my first page and look at my environment /info part ( first reply on thread )


If you want any brand recommends : Timber LED’s, hlg, fluence sci

Nothing wrong with LED grown bud.

 

[UncleRomulus]

Led s are much more grower friendly (less heat/power, not replacing bulbs, power surges/outages are less of a big deal.) and they grow plants great. Still prefer hps and cmh tho. Hard to explain but the plants act/react a bit different under led. I’ve noticed a few cons but I also love led. I love light man haha. I now recommend to friends starting out to buy a cheap full spectrum 100-150 REAL watt led rig for any small setup. I don’t recommend hps to anyone really, but any chance I get I’m blasting those old heaters for sure. Anyone that tells you hid is dead tho is ignorant. Yes leds (depending on quality) are twice as efficient power wise. (NOT 3-4 times lol) and are nice (no one get all butt hurt at me please) I do hate all the rediculous exaggerations tho. It’s getting obscene.
I recently bought a fixture on amazon. They claim it’s a 600 of course. With more reading I see they say it even replaces a 1000 watt hps! Hoooray! They say it’s 200 real watts.. (someone in the reviews tested it @130 watts.)
Why the horseshittery? I’m beginning to think these folks have never been in the same room as a de 1000 watt hps lol. The fixture almost replaces a 400 hps tho I’ll say.. almost. Thing about led is I still bought the fixture knowing this and enjoy it. Just gotta sift through all the bloody lies and deceit lol. When I see a perfectly good little led rig is being marketed as replacing some massive hid it makes my want to bitch slap someone. Makes both tech look bad

 

[Jimster]

The build up of phytochrome's is what initiates flowering.

From my understanding, which could be simply a made up half baked concoction, was that the chemical/substance that triggers flowering is produced by the phytochromes, but the amount of time of exposure of this substance to the plant is what triggers the flowering process... I think we both agree on that. What you earlier statement said resulted in me wondering how the tropical/equatorial strains would have enough difference in photoperiod to trigger flowering. I've never tried to grow anything with just a 12.5 max photoperiod (and I guess a 11.5 max photoperiod during the winter) from a seed, but I guess that you are saying that it should grow in veg state before automatically flowering after a few months. Would a 1 hr difference in photoperiod be enough to trigger a shift from veg growth to flowering?
I'm not being an ass about this, I am genuinely interested and curious about it, since this could open up a new way of growing without having to run the lights for 18 hrs.

 

[NGA]

Doesn’t matter what lightning you use everything is controlled by the grower ,start up cost for lightning is another thing led can be very pricey vs hid on bigger gardens

 

[MidwestToker]

but the amount of time of exposure of this substance to the plant is what triggers the flowering process... I think we both agree on that.

The common thought is it's the cumulative exposure to far red . One of the reasons their long flowering plants

Would a 1 hr difference in photoperiod be enough to trigger a shift from veg growth to flowering?

Never experienced it with a one hour difference at least as long as I never dropped below 14 hours . I can tell you that when I take cuttings for outdoors the mothers are in 18/6 and the cuttings get put to 15/9 to root to match the natural light times. In 30 days there ready to go out an they haven't missed a beat growing.

 

[Jimster]

The common thought is it's the cumulative exposure to far red . One of the reasons their long flowering plants

Never experienced it with a one hour difference at least as long as I never dropped below 14 hours . I can tell you that when I take cuttings for outdoors the mothers are in 18/6 and the cuttings get put to 15/9 to root to match the natural light times. In 30 days there ready to go out an they haven't missed a beat growing.

The far red total exposure theory is interesting, but a lot of light, both HID and LED can produce the far red to Infra red, so it should be fairly easy to grow the plants on a 12 hr cycle. In the past, I have grown under 18/6 for 6 months or more without seeing any flowering using Sativa strains. I know that a lot of plants have slightly different growing patterns based on their growing latitudes, but any plant that relies only on the photoperiod should have a hard time on the equator and close lying areas. The amount of far red light doesn't increase or decrease during the seasons as much as there being less blues during the shorter days when the sun is lower in the sky, making the percentage of far red higher relative to the full spectrum. There has to be something else that I'm missing.