Ideal pH range for soilless mediums

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LexLuthor

LexLuthor

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Hello Farmers, I just started using Sunshine #4, its a mix of peat moss, perlite and coco coir. I've read some of Desert Squirrel's threads and he say's to drop pH below 5.5 to promote root growth for young plants and also during times in flower to promote bigger yields. Thats because plants will uptake more P when the pH is lower around 5.2-5.5, but this is relevant for his UC system. He also said 5.8-6.0 is good for coco coir.

With that said, how does it work for peat based soilless mediums?? I've been keeping the nutrient solution around 5.8-6.2 and the runoff, last I checked, was 6.2. Should I drop the pH closer to 5.5 when I add my bloom boosters?? I would like people to give your opinions and share to your experience with the kind of pH you feed/watered with when using Sunshine #4, thanks to all.
 
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paperplane

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I try and keep my PH range from 5.5 - 6.2. All the way thru flower. I will start it at around 5.5 and it will raise slightly and usually stable off at around 5.8. I was told by an old OG farmer not to even worry about testing runoff ph or ppm's. As long as when you feed you get good run off and your not feeding to hot I see no need to check runoff unless u have a problem.
 
LexLuthor

LexLuthor

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I try and keep my PH range from 5.5 - 6.2. All the way thru flower. I will start it at around 5.5 and it will raise slightly and usually stable off at around 5.8. I was told by an old OG farmer not to even worry about testing runoff ph or ppm's. As long as when you feed you get good run off and your not feeding to hot I see no need to check runoff unless u have a problem.


I was worried at first to drop my pH below 5.8 in Mix #4, but since you've done it before I'll try it when I flower.

I only checked my run-off pH once every couple weeks just to see where it stands. Thanks
 
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DeanCanna

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I tend to check my run off more regularly ... Like every feed. More especially when implementing a new system. I'm a little OCD like that I guess, plus when it's perfect at what I estimated it to be I get to brag to myself... And that makes me smile and I like smiling.

But yes, 5.5 - 6.2.... With an attempt to stay at 5.8
 
LexLuthor

LexLuthor

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What can I use for pH down?? I have GH pH up, but I'm not driving all the way to the hydro store for a bottle of pH down if its safe to use white vinegar or lemon juice (from concentrate). My nutes bring the pH far down then I use pH up, but when I use plain water in between feedings my tap is about 7.4. I used lemon juice last week and I started to see some minor deficiencies this past week, I don't know if its attributed to the lemon juice but I'm trying to rule out possibilities so I can narrow it down and figure out exactly whats wrong.

So does anybody know if lemon juice or white vinegar will mess with your medium and/or plants in a negative way??
 
marski420

marski420

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What can I use for pH down?? I have GH pH up, but I'm not driving all the way to the hydro store for a bottle of pH down if its safe to use white vinegar or lemon juice (from concentrate). My nutes bring the pH far down then I use pH up, but when I use plain water in between feedings my tap is about 7.4. I used lemon juice last week and I started to see some minor deficiencies this past week, I don't know if its attributed to the lemon juice but I'm trying to rule out possibilities so I can narrow it down and figure out exactly whats wrong.

So does anybody know if lemon juice or white vinegar will mess with your medium and/or plants in a negative way??

From what I have been reading both vinegar and lemon juice are fine but lemon is better. Honestly I'd use the lemon for now but order PH down online in the mean time or next time you go to the hydro store pick some up.

From what I have read they both dont hold PH for lengthy periods(But lemon is superior) unlike the hydro store PH products which ime hold PH amazingly.

Edit: Sorry forgot about mentioning best PH for soilless, its already been said but 5.8 is the number to hit for the perfect full spectrum nutrient uptake. If its a little higher or a little lower its no big deal but 5.8 is optimum. This info comes from a couple master growers I know who run a hydro store.
 
LexLuthor

LexLuthor

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From what I have been reading both vinegar and lemon juice are fine but lemon is better. Honestly I'd use the lemon for now but order PH down online in the mean time or next time you go to the hydro store pick some up.

From what I have read they both dont hold PH for lengthy periods(But lemon is superior) unlike the hydro store PH products which ime hold PH amazingly.


I'm in Sunshine mix so I don't need it to hold the pH like in a RDWC system. Plus the Sunshine has a buffer so if I water with the correct pH it should e fine. Thanks for the info.
 
putembk

putembk

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I'm in 5 gal pots in sunshine 4 and a 20% mix of perlite thrown in. Also have about 1" of perlite at both the top and bottom of the pot. I try and keep my ph between 5.8 and 6, and allow a little fade at the end. I am a fanatic about checking both in and out. I like to do it and fortunately have the time.
 
GR33NL3AF

GR33NL3AF

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I'm in Sunshine mix so I don't need it to hold the pH like in a RDWC system. Plus the Sunshine has a buffer so if I water with the correct pH it should e fine. Thanks for the info.

I'm in 5 gal pots in sunshine 4 and a 20% mix of perlite thrown in. Also have about 1" of perlite at both the top and bottom of the pot. I try and keep my ph between 5.8 and 6, and allow a little fade at the end. I am a fanatic about checking both in and out. I like to do it and fortunately have the time.

5.8 - 6 for pH in Sunshine #4? Can you guys say for sure you have ran that pH all the way through without lockout issues? I swore #4 came with dolomite mixed in, wouldn't that mean the media prefers the pH closer to neutral? I just did a run in this mix for the first time, granted most of my feedings were organics with bennies, but I did water in micro here and there with a pH around 6.5 without any ill effects.
 
midwestdensies

midwestdensies

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I tend to shoot for a 5.4-5.6 feed depending on runoff of prior feed. The rootzone seems to rise naturally in-between feeds.
 
putembk

putembk

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5.8 - 6 for pH in Sunshine #4? Can you guys say for sure you have ran that pH all the way through without lockout issues? I swore #4 came with dolomite mixed in, wouldn't that mean the media prefers the pH closer to neutral? I just did a run in this mix for the first time, granted most of my feedings were organics with bennies, but I did water in micro here and there with a pH around 6.5 without any ill effects.
I have ran at 6.5 before, I have just been told many times that in organic soil to keep it just under 6. Can't tell any difference either way. I am measuring runoff and like midwest said the ph I feed at is determined on the ph at runoff.
 
GR33NL3AF

GR33NL3AF

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I have ran at 6.5 before, I have just been told many times that in organic soil to keep it just under 6. Can't tell any difference either way. I am measuring runoff and like midwest said the ph I feed at is determined on the ph at runoff.

So to clarify, you have run the pH at 5.8-6 with no ill effects? I was under the assumption an Organic soil with bennies did not need to be pH'd as the bennies would do it for you. The only time pH'ing was necessary was when feeding synthetics...
GR33N
 
putembk

putembk

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I use AN and (not the ph perfect stuff) and my ph will have a tendency to slowly drop. Am flushing a Chemdog #4 today and the ph when I started was 5.5 and I will bring it back up to 6. IMO if you look at some of the older nute uptake charts it says that 6.5 is best but lately I have been told lower is better. Don't ever see any signs of lock out. Plants stay green until they start to fade just before harvest.
 
GR33NL3AF

GR33NL3AF

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I use AN and (not the ph perfect stuff) and my ph will have a tendency to slowly drop. Am flushing a Chemdog #4 today and the ph when I started was 5.5 and I will bring it back up to 6. IMO if you look at some of the older nute uptake charts it says that 6.5 is best but lately I have been told lower is better. Don't ever see any signs of lock out. Plants stay green until they start to fade just before harvest.

I'm currently running beds of Roots Organics Soil, FFOF and Sunshine #4 to see which produces better quality product. I feed all tables at 6.5-6.8 and they're all doing just fine, though the FFOF has a much higher resin production compared to the other tables. Same feed, same strain, same everything. I almost feel like because it is straight Soil it prefers closer to neutral compared to the other 2 mixes (#4 & RO) and is able to uptake nutrients smoother.
 
LexLuthor

LexLuthor

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@GREENLEAF- Maybe since Sunshine #4 has limestone you can water at a lower pH without ill effects because the lime acts as a buffer. If it has lime I dont think it means you have to water closer to 7 pH, it just helps buffer in case you water too low and helps keep it stable. I could be wrong but I'm just tossing that out there.

I'm gonna give the next watering with a 6.5 pH just to see if I can tell any visual difference.
 
midwestdensies

midwestdensies

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with true organics I typically shoot for 6.5 in feeds and 7.0 for water only. again is plant and runoff dependent. I also must state I use ro typically.
 
GR33NL3AF

GR33NL3AF

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@GREENLEAF- Maybe since Sunshine #4 has limestone you can water at a lower pH without ill effects because the lime acts as a buffer. If it has lime I dont think it means you have to water closer to 7 pH, it just helps buffer in case you water too low and helps keep it stable. I could be wrong but I'm just tossing that out there.

I'm gonna give the next watering with a 6.5 pH just to see if I can tell any visual difference.

Really interested to see your results....It's worth experimenting with the pH (slowly of course) to see exactly what the soil prefers. Have you ever contacted the manufacturer?
 
LexLuthor

LexLuthor

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Really interested to see your results....It's worth experimenting with the pH (slowly of course) to see exactly what the soil prefers. Have you ever contacted the manufacturer?


I'm having issues with my nutrient regiment at the moment. I just can't seem to dial-in 2 strains I have in a new environment. So not only will I fluctuate the pH I am going to start using GH Flora Micro + Bloom (not lucas). So in order for me to know which factor will be responsible for what, I'm gonna change the nutrients today, but only change the pH .1 at a time and keep 1 plant with 6.4-6.6 constant.

Np, I never contacted the manufacturer. Are you talking about Sunshine#4 mnfct.??
 
GR33NL3AF

GR33NL3AF

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I'm having issues with my nutrient regiment at the moment. I just can't seem to dial-in 2 strains I have in a new environment. So not only will I fluctuate the pH I am going to start using GH Flora Micro + Bloom (not lucas). So in order for me to know which factor will be responsible for what, I'm gonna change the nutrients today, but only change the pH .1 at a time and keep 1 plant with 6.4-6.6 constant.

Np, I never contacted the manufacturer. Are you talking about Sunshine#4 mnfct.??

Ya. Either way your experiment will answer some questions
 
LexLuthor

LexLuthor

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I'll keep it in this thread and update probably once a week or whenever needed.

Just so ya'll know, I was using GH MaxiGro that has an actual ppm NPK ratio of 4-1-5, I would either use that or sometimes add KoolBloom to change the ratio to 3-1-5 or so with low Ca and Mg. It hasn't been working good in this new environment and/or strains so I'm now using GH Micro+Bloom in a 4:3 ratio of micro:bloom (4 ml M + 3 ml B) per gallon which will give me a ppm NPK ratio of 3-1-2 with Ca the same as N with Mg and S half of Ca. I will increase/decrease strength as needed. Oh, with my 4:3 ratio of micro+bloom, I have to add a 1/4 tsp. epsom salt with each 7 ml to get Mg and S to where I want it. So its essentially a 3-part formula.
 
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