If its not Organic! 100% its just any other drug

[Dirtbag]

Well put. :-)


And I might add “confirmation bias” to your post. When people put a lot of energy (or especially money) into something they will tend to only see positive evidence of their way because of the investment made.

It follows all the common arguments. Flushing, defoliation, nutes even. The arguments continue regardless of proof.

I see what you did there... ;)

In my defense, money, or spending a bit of extra energy means little to me, results do.

 

[Ina]

"It doesn't matter what you call it, bullshit or male cow digestive refuse, it's still the same stinking pile of garbage."

To me its fertilizer:)

 

[MIMedGrower]

To me its fertilizer:)

You beat me to the poop joke. :-)

 

[stanknugzz77]

I recently got my hands on some more organic dimethyltryptamine. Drugs are fun. Positive vibes...

~nugzz

 

[tobh]

I recently got my hands on some more organic dimethyltryptamine. Drugs are fun. Positive vibes...

~nugzz

Mimosa hostilis is a hell of a great plant. So is banisteriopsis caapi :)

 

[stanknugzz77]

@Dirtbag Will do brother. Positive vibes...

Mimosa hostilis is a hell of a great plant. So is banisteriopsis caapi :)

Truly a blessing. I love opening portals and exploring alternate dimensions. Positive vibes...

~nugzz

 

[Glassdub]

To me its fertilizer:)

Better than calling it nutes.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I see what you did there... ;)

In my defense, money, or spending a bit of extra energy means little to me, results do.

I wasnt saying experimentation is bad or anything. Just that even in proper medical trials the tester is not permitted to join in the trial or even know who has placebos or real meds so that the tester can not influence the results. The tester would consciously or unconciously use confirmation bias toward their own conclusions.

 

[tobh]

I wasnt saying experimentation is bad or anything. Just that even in proper medical trials the tester is not permitted to join in the trial or even know who has placebos or real meds so that the tester can not influence the results. The tester would consciously or unconciously use confirmation bias toward their own conclusions.

Precisely. This is why double blind studies are done in pharmaceutical trials; the giver nor the receiver know what is being administered. Only the facilitators of the test know the specific variable values or inputs. The facilitators are an ambivolent entity with absolutely no influence on the application or environmental variables, only giving a to b and c.

That's why the threads of "I've done it, so don't you worry" catch the air of BS. There's not even a single blind test being ran, and I think a lot of the whole foods, veganic/organic types go to war with the salt based types and don't see eye to eye. Neither side is right.

Unless they're running in an academic lab with the facilities to produce a true double blind study, there's absolutely no way to determine the better between salts vs organics. If someone can link an MIT/Standford/Hartford/Yale/USCx/Oxford/BigNameUniv whitepaper proving a real difference in plant structure, including density, carbon storage, brix level, etc. This entire discussion is moot. Just saying.

 

[Growing_Garbage]

I'm over here mixing organic and "regular" bottled ferts, plus adding molasses to my 50 gal res's running flood and drain tables... And using sterile coco, but sometimes I throw compost on top before a heavy hand watering, or into the hole at transplant. Oh man better choose a side haha.

but sure organics great I try to take advantage as much as I can get away with indoors just cause its cheap free ferts. Just counter productive sometimes with molds, bugs, rot etc. The veggie garden is in "organic" compost of all my grow remnants and kitchen scraps if that counts for anything. biggest 'maters on the block haha

 

[Glassdub]

I'm over here mixing organic and "regular" bottled ferts, plus adding molasses to my 50 gal res's running flood and drain tables... And using sterile coco, but sometimes I throw compost on top before a heavy hand watering, or into the hole at transplant. Oh man better choose a side haha.

but sure organics great I try to take advantage as much as I can get away with indoors just cause its cheap free ferts. Just counter productive sometimes with molds, bugs, rot etc. The veggie garden is in "organic" compost of all my grow remnants and kitchen scraps if that counts for anything. biggest 'maters on the block haha

Is ferts the new nutes?
I prefer newts.

 

[Growing_Garbage]

I'll says nutes if its spelled newts in my head haha

 

[Glassdub]

I'll says nutes if its spelled newts in my head haha

I support coming out of the closet on this upgrade in dude lingo, this should be the new thing.

 

[Dirtbag]

I wasnt saying experimentation is bad or anything. Just that even in proper medical trials the tester is not permitted to join in the trial or even know who has placebos or real meds so that the tester can not influence the results. The tester would consciously or unconciously use confirmation bias toward their own conclusions.

Ok, sure, but I can visually discern when a crop has been improved through various means. My problem is not being controlled enough if anything, but still when something is working, you know it, you dont need a trial study to prove it. That's how good breeders and growers have been breeding and growing for thousands of years. By watching the plants.

 

[bongstar]

Precisely. This is why double blind studies are done in pharmaceutical trials; the giver nor the receiver know what is being administered. Only the facilitators of the test know the specific variable values or inputs. The facilitators are an ambivolent entity with absolutely no influence on the application or environmental variables, only giving a to b and c.

That's why the threads of "I've done it, so don't you worry" catch the air of BS. There's not even a single blind test being ran, and I think a lot of the whole foods, veganic/organic types go to war with the salt based types and don't see eye to eye. Neither side is right.

Unless they're running in an academic lab with the facilities to produce a true double blind study, there's absolutely no way to determine the better between salts vs organics. If someone can link an MIT/Standford/Hartford/Yale/USCx/Oxford/BigNameUniv whitepaper proving a real difference in plant structure, including density, carbon storage, brix level, etc. This entire discussion is moot. Just saying.

There are many studies. Here is just one done at UC Davis. I dont realy need a study to tell me what my senses can clearly discern. but i understand that many prefer to see a paper or study so here you go please read it. Better is a subjective word. Im truly interested in the nutritional value of food and cannabis and the effect of organic vs synthetic in these values and the building blocks that create these diffrences. Its not a battle of whats better its a discussion. https://www.dropbox.com/s/s66iy0zxmklpge5/2012_Spinach cropping system Koh (1).pdf?dl=0 same paper different link. https://mitchell.ucdavis.edu/public...ood-chemistry-doi-101021jf300051-60-3144-3150

 

[tobh]

There are many studies. Here is just one done at UC Davis. I dont realy need a study to tell me what my senses can clearly discern. but i understand that many prefer to see a paper or study so here you go please read it. Better is a subjective word. Im truly interested in the nutritional value of food and cannabis and the effect of organic vs synthetic in these values and the building blocks that create these diffrences. Its not a battle of whats better its a discussion. https://www.dropbox.com/s/s66iy0zxmklpge5/2012_Spinach cropping system Koh (1).pdf?dl=0 same paper different link. https://mitchell.ucdavis.edu/public...ood-chemistry-doi-101021jf300051-60-3144-3150

Thank you for linking some actual research performed with known quantifiable test parameters. However, it missed my point that people treat cannabis like a plant that's immune to these same effects, or for whatever reason it will be different, and afaik there are no studies being done specifically on cannabis .

As for a discussion, the discussion disintegrates when names start getting thrown around, and discrediting statements get made. It's one thing to have differing opinions, they're like assholes. It's another take some kind of religious stance with one's chosen method and use that stance to demean, or even worse, completely disregard another perfectly valid and equally valuable experience. We see it in society everywhere, and this particular topic is like talking politics with family over Thanksgiving dinner.

As for senses, those are highly subjective. How would you know your senses are telling you something was grown conventionally vs organically without seeing test results from chromatography and/or mass spectrometry, indicating the exact chemical composition of the samples? How would you know, without a doubt, that one method creates or retains some volatile chemical compound that doesn't play well with the many systems affected by cannabinoids in the body?

I just don't consider senses to be a valid scientific tool. Look at Albert Hoffman for example, used his senses and went on a history changing bike ride. Further there are too many environmental variables between grows to conclusively say conventional is bad and organic is good or vis a vis.

I'd be more likely to believe you prefer smoke that comes from a clean room, or a source you know and trust vs a dispensary or Mr. Nice Guy. Then it's understandable to not trust product from where you don't know the parameters and controls they had in place, leading to distrust and a subconscious response that says that smoke causes a crash. Add to that the fact that there have been verifiable, known cases of growers paying off testing labs so they could move tainted product to the dispensaries -- that's a whole other discussion in itself though.

Again that's highly subjective and I'd believe it to be more of a psychological response than a physiological response. I'm neither a physician or psychologist, so that's about what I have to say on that.

 

[cemchris]

Some of the most dangerous compounds known to man are naturally occurring organic compounds. There have been plenty of studies (www.lgtfy.com) that have shown organic production at a commercial scale is both economically infeasible and much more detrimental to the environment.

That being said, do what makes you happy. If you're fine building a super soil in a no-till raised bed where you feed the soil instead of the plant, do you. If you'd rather dump your medium down the drain and hack your formula to provide the plant with its exact needs, do you. If you want to run some kind of hybrid, that's fine as well.

Either way, my point is this: you can't tell the difference between an identical cut grown with salts vs organics if the plant was provided with everything it needed to produce. Science doesn't lie; for some reason people think that cannabis is some magical, special unicorn of the plant world. It's not, and with either method of production there's the risk of totally botching the end product.

So much this

 

[bongstar]

I hate to digress but All the lab reports studys and papers in the world couldnt have told Albert hoffman what his senses did. Do you want a study or a scientific publication to tell you if burrito tastes good? Science is great and can help us understand some of what our inquisitive minds want to know, but senses are our experience. Again studys and my senses have continualy

Thank you for linking some actual research performed with known quantifiable test parameters. However, it missed my point that people treat cannabis like a plant that's immune to these same effects, or for whatever reason it will be different, and afaik there are no studies being done specifically on cannabis .

As for a discussion, the discussion disintegrates when names start getting thrown around, and discrediting statements get made. It's one thing to have differing opinions, they're like assholes. It's another take some kind of religious stance with one's chosen method and use that stance to demean, or even worse, completely disregard another perfectly valid and equally valuable experience. We see it in society everywhere, and this particular topic is like talking politics with family over Thanksgiving dinner.

As for senses, those are highly subjective. How would you know your senses are telling you something was grown conventionally vs organically without seeing test results from chromatography and/or mass spectrometry, indicating the exact chemical composition of the samples? How would you know, without a doubt, that one method creates or retains some volatile chemical compound that doesn't play well with the many systems affected by cannabinoids in the body?

I just don't consider senses to be a valid scientific tool. Look at Albert Hoffman for example, used his senses and went on a history changing bike ride. Further there are too many environmental variables between grows to conclusively say conventional is bad and organic is good or vis a vis.

I'd be more likely to believe you prefer smoke that comes from a clean room, or a source you know and trust vs a dispensary or Mr. Nice Guy. Then it's understandable to not trust product from where you don't know the parameters and controls they had in place, leading to distrust and a subconscious response that says that smoke causes a crash. Add to that the fact that there have been verifiable, known cases of growers paying off testing labs so they could move tainted product to the dispensaries -- that's a whole other discussion in itself though.

Again that's highly subjective and I'd believe it to be more of a psychological response than a physiological response. I'm neither a physician or psychologist, so that's about what I have to say on that.

I hate to digress but All the valid scientific resarch, lab reports, studys and papers in the world couldnt have told Albert hoffman what his senses did. Do you want a study or a scientific publication to tell you if burrito tastes good? Science is great and can help us understand some of what our inquisitive minds want to know and can only partially explain some of the unbelievable complexity of what occurs on this earth. but senses are our experience. The burrito is either good or bad or somewhere in between,Science dosent tell me that. also never said synth weed gives me crash. Organic fruits and veggies tend to be more flavorful and higher in nutrition. Why would cannabis be different.Cannabis like you said isnt a magic unicorn. Im always trying to increase nutritional value in my food and herb. Organic cannabis has a flavor,look and feel wich my senses recognize and prefer over synth. There is no psychological response its not because of bias and preferd method. I grew synth for years then did hybrid and because of results And my interest in increasing nutritional value I choose organic.

 

[cemchris]

I hate to digress but All the lab reports studys and papers in the world couldnt have told Albert hoffman what his senses did. Do you want a study or a scientific publication to tell you if burrito tastes good? Science is great and can help us understand some of what our inquisitive minds want to know, but senses are our experience. Again studys and my senses have continualy

I hate to digress but All the valid scientific resarch, lab reports, studys and papers in the world couldnt have told Albert hoffman what his senses did. Do you want a study or a scientific publication to tell you if burrito tastes good? Science is great and can help us understand some of what our inquisitive minds want to know and can only partially explain some of the unbelievable complexity of what occurs on this earth. but senses are our experience. The burrito is either good or bad or somewhere in between,Science dosent tell me that. also never said synth weed gives me crash. Organic fruits and veggies tend to be more flavorful and higher in nutrition. Why would cannabis be different.Cannabis like you said isnt a magic unicorn. Im always trying to increase nutritional value in my food and herb. Organic cannabis has a flavor,look and feel wich my senses recognize and prefer over synth. There is no psychological response its not because of bias and preferd method. I grew synth for years then did hybrid and because of results And my interest in increasing nutritional value I choose organic.

What kind of nutritional value are you trying to get out of weed you smoke?

 

[Glassdub]

Organic fruits and veggies tend to be more flavorful and higher in nutrition.

Total organic horseshit more often than not its quite the opposite.