In memory of DD: How to build an MPB revisited.

[Capulator]

ah, i just looked at the first couple of pics you put up on page 1, Cap, and that shows the air lines more clearly. also, it appears as if you've still got drippers on this rig, which i thought you had eliminated (that's the second pvc pipe on the above pic)?

for others: many of us experienced stem rot issues with the top feed component that DD ran continuously. my solution is to top feed by hand when i put the plants in, the high rh coming up from the bucket typically has the roots reaching into the water four days later. i let the roots establish for a week or so and then uncover my rockwool cube and gently pull off about the top 1" of rockwool so that my lower stems can stay dry from that point on.

EDIT: LOL, and it appears as if you can post pics much faster than i can type Cap!

Yeah the drippers are there, but there is no pump attached to them anymore. I prefer to handwater for the first week or two, and after that I no longer need to water. The roots wick the water up. I will feed tea to the crown as well once a week, and that seems to be more than enough to keep the top bucket moist.

I think I want to try only having holes on the bottom third of the bucket, and raising the water level to above the holes at all times. After reading through some of heaths posts, it seems that the best bet is to have the roots going straight to the water with no air gap at all, to avoid large cord roots and promote only small feeder roots. I actually think that this is one of the secrets to heaths success, is all of the roots being fine feeder roots.

 

[ftwendy]

Fantastic discussion -- many, many thanks to the authors.

 

[ttystikk]

Yeah the drippers are there, but there is no pump attached to them anymore. I prefer to handwater for the first week or two, and after that I no longer need to water. The roots wick the water up. I will feed tea to the crown as well once a week, and that seems to be more than enough to keep the top bucket moist.

I think I want to try only having holes on the bottom third of the bucket, and raising the water level to above the holes at all times. After reading through some of heaths posts, it seems that the best bet is to have the roots going straight to the water with no air gap at all, to avoid large cord roots and promote only small feeder roots. I actually think that this is one of the secrets to heaths success, is all of the roots being fine feeder roots.

I might be screwing myself by going without airstones altogether then. I was hoping to types that system and aerate by waterfall, that is, just put a tee fitting at the end of the 1/2" water line and let it splash in. Isn't that supposed to be much more efficient anyway? I guess we're about to find out! If I see issues relating to insufficient oxygenation, I have an airstone at the ready to pop into place.

 

[ttystikk]

I have suddenly begun to encounter issues with stem rot myself, and so my experiments with using the substrate as the bio filter may have to change.

One big drawback to using a high mounted drain as the only egress point for water to leave the site is that you're nowstuck with that water height. By contrast, having an outlet port down low gives the grower this option. I know it's a big deal to alter water levels in the UC, maybe it's a universal issue that mpb's are susceptible to?

I'm not pointing fingers, I'm thinking out loud here. Please point out where my thinking is incorrect or incomplete!

 

[Capulator]

I have suddenly begun to encounter issues with stem rot myself, and so my experiments with using the substrate as the bio filter may have to change.

One big drawback to using a high mounted drain as the only egress point for water to leave the site is that you're nowstuck with that water height. By contrast, having an outlet port down low gives the grower this option. I know it's a big deal to alter water levels in the UC, maybe it's a universal issue that mpb's are susceptible to?

I'm not pointing fingers, I'm thinking out loud here. Please point out where my thinking is incorrect or incomplete!

Since switching to chow mix in the upper bucket I have not had any stem rot. Heath said on another thread that the secret was to have the water level high and keep it there. this encourages feeder roots as opposed to fat cord roots, which are the key to growth.

In an MPB you can have your drains come up from the bottom and you can adjust the pipe height to adjust the water level in each individual bucket.

 

[ttystikk]

Since switching to chow mix in the upper bucket I have not had any stem rot. Heath said on another thread that the secret was to have the water level high and keep it there. this encourages feeder roots as opposed to fat cord roots, which are the key to growth.

In an MPB you can have your drains come up from the bottom and you can adjust the pipe height to adjust the water level in each individual bucket.

I haven't run anything but chowmix in years; mine is about 50/50 coco/expanded clay pebbles and if I had it to do over I wouldn't get the fine grade, as it lives to clog my pumps!

What about O2? Do you think my 1/2" lines waterfall through tee fittings will suffice, or not?

 

[Papa]

Do you think my 1/2" lines waterfall through tee fittings will suffice, or not?

the discussion of oxygenation has gone on for a long time. unfortunately, decent DO meters are expensive and notoriously difficult to use properly. we could use good data from a well-designed test.

"Saturation Levels Of Dissolved Oxygen In Relation To Water Temperature"
http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f29...lved-oxygen-relation-water-temperature-23805/

"Purchased a Dissolved Oxygen (DO) meter"
http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f29/purchased-dissolved-oxygen-do-meter-17582/

"Microbubble Dissolved Oxygen enhancer devices"
http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f29/microbubble-dissolved-oxygen-enhancer-devices-31641/

 

[ttystikk]

I'm going to keep it real simple for myself. First, keep things cool, then run the waterfalls. If that isn't keeping up dissolved oxygen levels, I can toss in an airstone or two easy peasy.

 

[Capulator]

I haven't run anything but chowmix in years; mine is about 50/50 coco/expanded clay pebbles and if I had it to do over I wouldn't get the fine grade, as it lives to clog my pumps!

What about O2? Do you think my 1/2" lines waterfall through tee fittings will suffice, or not?

Put a filter on your pump intake.

IMHO 1/2" isn't enough.

 

[ttystikk]

Put a filter on your pump intake.

IMHO 1/2" isn't enough.

The filter just guarantees the clog. Most of the coco is fine enough to pass through the pump without clogging lol. I only have problems with small pumps with shrouded intakes, lol

3/4" and 650gph isn't excessive for two 27 gallon tubs? That's the whole system, just two sites. If it were any more, wouldn't even consider 1/2" at all.

How about a really small fluming pump inside the tub, fed from the tailbucket?

 

[Jalisco Kid]

Put a 5 gal. airless paint strainer on your return to the rez.
If you have a large enough tank you do not have to worry about having enough feeder roots. The cord roots holds a lot of weight. If you have just feeder and a lot of water moving they just break off more then they need to.
My tanks have multi drains that are adjustable, works better for me. JK

 

[ttystikk]

I just came across this thread after a few months, so by way of discussion, I'll just post my most recently installed thinking.

FWIW, running a 1" supply line from a 633 gph pump that feeds four fittings about 3/8" i.d. each into its own 27 gallon tub has been working fine. This alteration is just an attempt to splash more water on the roots to see what I get. It's ghetto, but it's fun!

To recap; 27 gallon tubs, each with two sets of two 1"bulkhead fittings, offset so water movement creates swirl. There's a 5 gallon bucket spacer in the lid, to raise the netpot and allow the tub to hold more if its rated capacity without drowning the plants. The cover is there to shade the water and keep the interior dark, as the yellow lid grows algae all too well!

The 633gph pump at one end if the system pulls water through a collector bucket, through the chiller coil and pushed it down the irrigation/recirculating line, a 1" hose which feeds four 3/8" lines that direct water into each tub. At the tub there is a 3/8" i.d. elbow fitting which aims the water downward. Into this, I've attached a 5" bit of 1/2" tubing, capped it, and cut a slit 3" long along one side. Seems to work pretty well, pics;

 

[Jalisco Kid]

why did you offset that bucket?

 

[ttystikk]

why did you offset that bucket?

The spacer goes in the corner instead of the middle for strength and to allow for different spacing options in the room without the need to disassemble the system. You can turn the lid around to move the centerline about 18", or swap left and right hand lids for about 8".

It sounds trivial, but it's already come in handy more than once- so it's a feature I'm sticking with for now.

 

[Dizzy Weasel]

Hey everyone been reading and following all on here for quite sometime...
been running UC with success for a while now and want to dabble in a few trees and see how that goes

Thanks for all the info Cap much appreciated!!
Hey Cap what parts did you use to economically connect the cam locks with a tight seal?

Im in the process of building my own version of this system.. I have all air/water pumps, chillers and plumbing minus cam locks so far.. so only thing i will be buying is containers and cam locks..... room built and is dialed been ran more than a few times..

I am going to run one 3" cam lock per container for the return and run 3" flex hose directly to a 150 gallon Rubbermaid agricultural trough (epicenter), these will be connected to a 4" abs RETURN manifold that is directly to the bottom of 150 gal epicenter, i will be able to control level of epicenter and whole system as one in this configuration
I will have the containers raised thinking of just using a container with lid underneath... otherwise same plumbing besides the addition of a 1" overflow near the top of container that will only flow water if the return pipe becomes clogged these will go to OVERFLOW manifold and dump above water in epicenter so it will be obvious there is a problem at a glance

I have some 4' veg in UC and i will be moving that over and running it in the 8 site I am building
will post build thread soon as i get these last details figured out so i can order cam locks.... and give back to the community

 

[Dizzy Weasel]

Put a filter on your pump intake.

IMHO 1/2" isn't enough.

Hey Cap do you have any input?

 

[KiLoEleMeNt]

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM IM LOST:banghead: I don't get the benefit of this unit it looks far to complicated far to many moving parts that are un movable and so on now I understand the yield benefit but it seems like a 20/80 chance of success can someone tell me what I am missing here

 

[Capulator]

Hey Cap do you have any input?

Sorry this is so late man. Just saw it. See post #36 of this thread.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM IM LOST:banghead: I don't get the benefit of this unit it looks far to complicated far to many moving parts that are un movable and so on now I understand the yield benefit but it seems like a 20/80 chance of success can someone tell me what I am missing here

Benefits:

Super fast veg and ridiculous growth coupled with massive yields and low numbers.

Easy to just change water. No hand watering involved. System is fully automated.

No media really so just throwing out roots in between runs.

I am not running any water culture at this time. I am in to top feed drain to waste for it's simplicity. I use short cycle timers. 10-20 seconds on and an hour off.

 

[KiLoEleMeNt]

Sorry this is so late man. Just saw it. See post #36 of this thread.

No media really so just throwing out roots in between runs.

What do you mean no media I see hydroton in 5gal lid baskets same as in my dwc buckets? How do you figure you vegg faster can you be a little more specific as to how it would veg any faster than any other hydro unit? I am very curious about this technique it seems time worthy but risky for the cost also it seems like it would have a lot of foul ups due to the amount of parts used!? so don't get me wrong I am not knocking it just trying to learn more about it so I can make an educated decision as to weather or not I would want to give this a try.......................... correction I see hydroton in the other setup pictured here...... also ill tell you this even if I do find it not worth doing for me it is COOL AS HELL

 

[Capulator]

There aren't a lot of parts. A couple of drains, a feed line, and a big pump.

The thing that makes it veg fast if I had to guess is the shit ton of air in the water from all the movement. I can't tell you specifics other than the experience I have had in my 2 years using them.

It's basically like any other RDWC system. Amazing growth, but easy to crash and burn.