Internode Spacing Way Too Short

[MushinNoShin]

Hey Guys, I have this cut that is remarkable, but about 70% of the clones I take get to this certain point where internode spacing gets WAY too short and stops her from becoming large trees and gets mad discoloration/varigation. I've check for root-bound (...edness?) and she has plenty of room, not filling the pot out at all. Sometimes it is so bad she'll only be about a foot @ 6 weeks of veg. Not all of the clones do this, but it is becoming more and more common.

Was wondering if anyone might have any tips/tricks for this, thanks!

Note: my other cuts/strains don't look this shitty. I am well aware that she looks like shit, she always does, but nothing fixes it. Quality is thru the roof on finished product.

 

[Myco]

Can you take some more pics?

What you've described sounds like the wretched "dudding" that many of us have experienced.

Edit: you said quality is through the roof on the finished product... usually not the case with dudding. However I have had plants that don't want to snap out of that funky structure completely but still produce quality.

What are the genetics?

 

[MushinNoShin]

I don't like the sound of that at all, lol. It's a cut I recieved as "Chemdog D" awhile back, but now having the authentic Chemdog D cut, I know that not to be the case (Although they share very similar characteristics).

She is the mother of the best cross I currently have (only rivaled by an OG cut I recently recieved).

 

[tobh]

How far are your lights above her? Can't speak much from experience, but I have seen incredibly tight nodal spacing when the ladies don't have to reach at all for the light. I'm not questioning your abilities by any means. Curious to see the resolution to this for myself in case I ever experience it as well.

One Love,
tobh

 

[Saguaro]

Yea, it sure does look like it got the Dud Virus….Same symptoms too.

I had to cull everything once my plants got infected, rent a UV ozone generator, and thoroughly scrub everything down all the while not growing anything out at all for like a month …just in case they cross contaminated.

Yes, it became that serious…… as I had those same mother plants for years and never had any issues before accepting some sick clones form CO…. and one of them happened to be Chemdog D. too . lol

I started over from seed and haven't yet experienced any signs or symptoms and I am already going into the 8th week of flower so thats a Great sign.

 

[MushinNoShin]

No, by all means; I have suspected light distance to be to blame as well, as she does seem to do better further from the lights. The only problem is the further she gets from the light, the more leaf discoloration I get, especially the bottom half which sometimes yellows and dies. Strangest thing I've ever encountered. 3'-5' feet depending on where the clones are positioned.

 

[MushinNoShin]

Yea, it sure does look like it got the Dud Virus….Same symptoms too.

I had to cull everything once my plants got infected, rent a UV ozone generator, and thoroughly scrub everything down all the while not growing anything out at all for like a month …just in case they cross contaminated.

Yes, it became that serious…… as I had those same mother plants for years and never had any issues before accepting some sick clones form CO…. and one of them happened to be Chemdog D. too . lol

I started over from seed and haven't yet experienced any signs or symptoms and I am already going into the 8th week of flower so thats a Great sign.

See, I first suspected TMV about 2 years ago (when I knew less), but it has never spread to anything else.

Sometimes the ones that turn-out well vary so much from the bad ones that I think I mislabeled my clones, lol.

 

[MushinNoShin]

I'll be running some experiments and WILL get this sorted-out, one way or another. I am emotionally attached to this cut and tossing it simply isn't an option for me.

 

[Saguaro]

Oh….. give it time. It will eventually.

It took about a year and a half before my other plants started showing signs.

I was JUST going to ask if the bottom branches snap off easily where the base and branch meet?

Also, does the main base or trunk of the stunted plant get bulbous? like small and big bumps on it?

 

[MushinNoShin]

Oh….. give it time. It will eventually.

It took about a year and a half before my other plants started showing signs.

I was JUST going to ask if the bottom branches snap off easily where the base and branch meet?

Also, does the main base or trunk of the stunted plant get bulbous? like small and big bumps on it?

Slightly bulbous, but nothing extraordinary. Branches are pretty strong, sometimes there is snapping, but my Clone-Only OGs snap FAR more often, like fuking glass sometimes, lol.

 

[Saguaro]

Bro, trust me…. I had my cut of the White for 4 1/2 years before it got infected!

I LITERALLY tried EVERYTHING under the sun to try to reverse it and NOTHING worked!

I sincerely hate to say it man but whats more important to you at this point?

If it were me….. I wouldn't hesitate to chuck it.

There are plenty of other Gems out there that can easily fill it's shoes.

Hell, I just found 3 gems out of 40 seeds I just popped.

If you decide to let it go and need some new starts ….hit me up.

 

[MushinNoShin]

What is the consensus for the cause of "Dudding"?

 

[Saguaro]

There are a few theories ….. one of them being stem nematodes.

Definitely appears to be systemic …. like a virus though.

 

[Saguaro]

Like I said, I tried everything. … spent damn near $400 on products and nothing got rid of it completely.

Would only keep it at bay …… at the very least

 

[MushinNoShin]

Bro, trust me…. I had my cut of the White for 4 1/2 years before it got infected!

I LITERALLY tried EVERYTHING under the sun to try to reverse it and NOTHING worked!

I sincerely hate to say it man but whats more important to you at this point?

If it were me….. I wouldn't hesitate to chuck it.

There are plenty of other Gems out there that can easily fill it's shoes.

Hell, I just found 3 gems out of 40 seeds I just popped.

If you decide to let it go and need some new starts ….hit me up.

I appreciate it, but I'm going to stay the course for now. Actually, I am getting very excited at the challenge now, lol. I WILL solve this.

Updates to come!

 

[Saguaro]

Cheers!

 

[MushinNoShin]

Hypothesis 1:
Poor growth rates and short internodal spacing may be the result of poor cutting/clone practices and selection.

Experiment 1:
Fresh cuttings take from the topmost part of the plant. These will be compared with cuttings taken from the bottom-most part of the plant. Only the most vigorous clones will be selected for transplant (Sorry, limited plant-count allowance).

Experiment 2:
Fresh cuttings were taken from the topmost and bottom-most part of another clone (of the same strain) that displayed no unfavorable growth characteristics. Only the most vigorous clones will be selected for transplant.

Experiment 3:
Cuttings will be taken from both clones, but only from branches with the largest internodal spacing. Again, only the most vigorous clones will be selected for transplant. (Experiment pending).

Observations to follow.

 

[MushinNoShin]

Okay, so the clones are still doing their thing, not much to report on as of yet. She can take up to 3 weeks to root, makes King Louie XIII feel like a cake walk, lol. Have managed to get that down to about 1-2 weeks over the last couple years.

I did notice that out of the old clones I have in veg, the ones I forgot to top seem to have the most favorable structure/growth characteristics.

One clone (not part of the experiment) in particular looks very similar to the mother at her prime; no leaf varigation, no super-short internode spacing and no dead leaves. I went ahead and took 4 clones from her, we'll see what happens.

 

[Bulldog11]

Tissue culture will stop dudding 100% every time.

 

[MushinNoShin]

Tissue culture will stop dudding 100% every time.

Just doesn't seem practical to me; I always hear people talking about tissue cultures, but have yet to see anyone actually culturing cannabis... Successfully, anyways.