Irie Seeds "Orange Gasm" under Gavita Pro 1700e LED's..........

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sshz

sshz

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The plants never got tall........I think I flipped when the plants were about 14-16 inches and they stretched no more than another 6-10 inches max. - except the couple of yellowing Golden Goat leaners which got taller on their own. I started the lights at 36 inches above the pots, and didn't touch them until flowering- I just let the plants grow closer to them in veg. In flowering, I think I started them at around 18 inches, but slowly lowered them but never really got closer than about 15 inches. Deep in flowering I went back to around 18 inches.

My plan right now is to do the same thing in veg with the Sweet Zombie, then in flowering keep the lights up around 24-30 inches hoping this strain will stretch more. If the Orange Gasm (which is a TALL strain) was kept so short, I'm worried the Sweet Zombie (which IS a short strain) won't get above a foot tall. I might also do a longer veg, but I'll make that decision when I come to it, depending on side branching.
 
Milson

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TBH, I think getting the lights much higher is actually counter productive TBH, it's just better to have them down as low as possible on the plant, as it provides better overall penetration. You know what I'm talking about, take a light meter, and measure off 6 inches from the light. Your photosynthetic photon flux density PPFD is the amount that "actually" arrives at the plant. Getting that deep into the canopy is much more challenging, but apparently entirely possible with LED's, it just turns out that it's the exact opposite than I had supposed.

I figured higher powered LED's, but what you really want, is low "efficient" powered, and close, very close, but spread out with wide cast. (wide light footprint) With that said, mostly I think 120 degreee angles are being used, so probably 6 inches to a foot beyond the light, I would think ,at most. How close were you getting down on the plants, especially at the end?

Where you adjusting it by the v in the plants leaves? or just a set height.

Operating TemperatureTa-40 ~ +85ºC-Storage TemperatureTstg-40 ~ +120ºC-LED Junction TemperatureTj110ºC-Forward CurrentIF200mA-Pulse Forward CurrentIFP300mADuty 1/10, pulse width 10msAssembly Process Temperature-260<10ºCs-ESD (HBM)-5kV-b)Electro-optical Characteristics (IF= 65mA, Ts= 25 ºC)ItemUnitRankBinMin.Typ.Max.Forward Voltage (VF)VXAAY2.6-2.7AZ2.7-2.8A12.8-2.9Reverse Voltage(@ 5 mA)V0.7-1.2Color Rendering Index (Ra)-90--Thermal Resistance(junction to solder point)ºC/W-7.5-Beam Angleº-120
If I took a light meter and kept moving back from an hps light and an led and the luminosity did not decay according to I/(r^2) pretty much identically, I would be absolutely shocked or (more likely) assume I was screwing up.

I think the better penetration is due to spectrum, not power. I don't think at this distance the angle matters enough to make a meaningful difference, though I could be wrong.
 
sshz

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Everything else was finally chopped today............and I'll start seeing people tomorrow. Enclosed you will see everything from the grow, which is around 100 oz or slightly more I'm guessing. Each container on the floor has between 7 and 16 oz in it, and hanging is about 28 oz figuring on 4 oz a plant but it's probably higher. I'll start winding down this thread and start the Sweet Zombie one, but I'll be back in 7-10 days for the final weight and a quick review/summary of the grow and strain

0
 
Aqua Man

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Everything else was finally chopped today............and I'll start seeing people tomorrow. Enclosed you will see everything from the grow, which is around 100 oz or slightly more I'm guessing. Each container on the floor has between 7 and 16 oz in it, and hanging is about 28 oz figuring on 4 oz a plant but it's probably higher. I'll start winding down this thread and start the Sweet Zombie one, but I'll be back in 7-10 days for the final weight and a quick review/summary of the grow and strain

View attachment 1032542
Enjoy the wedding and congratulations.
 
Frankster

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How tall were your plants when you flipped? This is the closest pic I could find...if the light is 16 inches, is that a foot? Just trying to get my own sense for my grow, knowing of course many variables are different.

I really like this picture, shows some interesting information. The thickness of the canopy, the angle of the leaves are good all around, not all bunched up and highly v in the center and flatter around the edges that you see with some other grows, but overall uniform.
 
Frankster

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If I took a light meter and kept moving back from an hps light and an led and the luminosity did not decay according to I/(r^2) pretty much identically, I would be absolutely shocked or (more likely) assume I was screwing up.

I think the better penetration is due to spectrum, not power. I don't think at this distance the angle matters enough to make a meaningful difference, though I could be wrong.

Both are certainly going to decay unlike normal sunlight, but I would imagine that LED's should be decaying much more rapidly, depending on the overall power of the HPS and the diodes in question. There's some other engineering things that come into play here, but overall the power in the LED's are in thier ability to get up close without causing the heat related problems and/or bleaching that occurs with much brighter concentrated light.

I'm sure your probably right that the spectrum contributes as well, but spreading out the light source creates angles from all points of orgin, giving much more broad coverage. Think about how shadows are cast from a light eminiating from a single point in space, like a flashlight, and contrast that with using a "flood light" that cast it from a much broader angle (or many smaller flashlights from various angles) and you'll see where I'm going with my line of reasoning. You have much more overlap, when the beams are widely cast, also, because there not concentrated, your able to move them closer, further enhancing the efficiency.

ie. instead of hitting 50% of that leaf under the canopy, it's hitting 75-80%
 
Cracken

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Wedding is in 2 weeks, and with flu, the event went from 160+ people down to 45
or so in a much smaller venue. I’ll be glad when it’s all over.........
be safe when in a group of people, with flu it never good to take a chance. you mentioned earlier in the thread that your lungs are not what they used to be, so you are at a higher risk of a severe reaction. sorry if I am like that annoying brother in-law that always chirps in. just would not want to lose a great man of the craft.
 
sshz

sshz

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Thanks...... I'm well aware of the risks, especially since I'm over 60 with very mild asthma. My health otherwise is very good with zero other issues thanks god. We had masks made with everyone's initials for the wedding, and the event will be outside with lots of separation between everyone. We tried to talk my daughter into waiting til next year but she had her mind set and there was no changing it. I'm guessing because there's no guarantee things will be better then either.
 
Cracken

Cracken

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Both are certainly going to decay unlike normal sunlight, but I would imagine that LED's should be decaying much more rapidly, depending on the overall power of the HPS and the diodes in question. There's some other engineering things that come into play here, but overall the power in the LED's are in thier ability to get up close without causing the heat related problems and/or bleaching that occurs with much brighter concentrated light.

I'm sure your probably right that the spectrum contributes as well, but spreading out the light source creates angles from all points of orgin, giving much more broad coverage. Think about how shadows are cast from a light eminiating from a single point in space, like a flashlight, and contrast that with using a "flood light" that cast it from a much broader angle (or many smaller flashlights from various angles) and you'll see where I'm going with my line of reasoning. You have much more overlap, when the beams are widely cast, also, because there not concentrated, your able to move them closer, further enhancing the efficiency.

ie. instead of hitting 50% of that leaf under the canopy, it's hitting 75-80%
all science aside, a HPS pumps out lots of radiant heat that is hot enough to boil water upon contact. LED's however produce light more efficiently. so there is less Heat created directly from the surface of the light so a closer distance is achievable.
we all know energy (according to Einstein) can not be created of destroyed only transferred to different forms.
HPS lights produce lots of light but are not efficient at making light and the wasted energy is lost in the form of heat.
LED's however are much more efficient at producing light so more of the energy is converted to photons that get directed at the plant. and as an added bonus the LED's are directing the light only at the plants not all directions. i don't know the all the formulas to figure out the loss ratio for light but I am sure it is enough to add to the efficiency of LEDS.
 
Dr.Green55

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Wedding is in 2 weeks, and with flu, the event went from 160+ people down to 45
or so in a much smaller venue. I’ll be glad when it’s all over.........


Have a great weekend and you and your family be safe , how is the flu in your area? are the numbers going down ? we've been watching Alexandria and the numbers are down from what they were , 22 new cases in the last 24 hours. We'll be in Alexandria the that same weekend.
 
sshz

sshz

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The wedding is about 1 1/2 hours north of us, even north of Baltimore a ways. flu is not bad where we live, but there’s lots of people coming from various directions. I told my wife tonight I want everyones temperature taken before being able to enter...........
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Both are certainly going to decay unlike normal sunlight, but I would imagine that LED's should be decaying much more rapidly, depending on the overall power of the HPS and the diodes in question. There's some other engineering things that come into play here, but overall the power in the LED's are in thier ability to get up close without causing the heat related problems and/or bleaching that occurs with much brighter concentrated light.

I'm sure your probably right that the spectrum contributes as well, but spreading out the light source creates angles from all points of orgin, giving much more broad coverage. Think about how shadows are cast from a light eminiating from a single point in space, like a flashlight, and contrast that with using a "flood light" that cast it from a much broader angle (or many smaller flashlights from various angles) and you'll see where I'm going with my line of reasoning. You have much more overlap, when the beams are widely cast, also, because there not concentrated, your able to move them closer, further enhancing the efficiency.

ie. instead of hitting 50% of that leaf under the canopy, it's hitting 75-80%
Honestly feel that HPS will degrade trichs way more. Most of the degradation is the heat.
 
Frankster

Frankster

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Honestly feel that HPS will degrade trichs way more. Most of the degradation is the heat.
Yea, I was meaning to reference decay in the sense of distance from the light source, thus decreasing the photosynthetic photon flux density. the farther your away from the diode, thus "lost potential"

But it has everything to do with this "heat" you speak of, because that's the limiting factor behind HPS technology

ie. Heat is a form of kinetic energy contained in the random motion of the particles of a material. Light is a form of electromagnetic energy. As with other forms of energy, heat energy can be transformed into light energy and vice versa.

In lighting, the decay is the overall "loss" in potential that's created from the source of the lighting, and the distance of the leaves. This basically boils down to an engineering consideration on the back side (independent from the efficiency of the tech itself) of harnesing and focusing the photosynthetic photon flux efficiently. (it's layout) It's all about creating "efficient" densities of the correct spectrum. The more spread out and close up, should equal better, if I'm right.

Where certainly going to find out, because I got the strips in today, and the rest should be here soon. Still need to make the heatsyncs and get wiring.
 
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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Yea, I was meaning to reference decay in the sense of distance from the light source, thus decreasing the photosynthetic photon flux density. the farther your away from the diode, thus "lost potential"

But it has everything to do with this "heat" you speak of, because that's the limiting factor behind HPS technology

ie. Heat is a form of kinetic energy contained in the random motion of the particles of a material. Light is a form of electromagnetic energy. As with other forms of energy, heat energy can be transformed into light energy and vice versa.

In lighting, the decay is the overall "loss" in potential that's created from the source of the lighting, and the distance of the leaves. This basically boils down to an engineering consideration on the back side (independent from the efficiency of the tech itself) of harnesing and focusing the photosynthetic photon flux efficiently. (it's layout) It's all about creating "efficient" densities of the correct spectrum. The more spread out and close up, should equal better, if I'm right.

Where certainly going to find out, because I got the strips in today, and the rest should be here soon. Still need to make the heatsyncs and get wiring.
Tag me in that. I'm interested. Not been getting much sleep lately and was out for drink tonight so I may not be comprehending what your saying. I would have to look more into it but I dont feel light intensity causes near the impact of degradation as heat would ... not sure if i misread what you were saying. So sorry in advance if I did

I dont think its the ppfd as mich as the heat
 
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MHippie

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Tag me in that. I'm interested. Not been getting much sleep lately and was out for drink tonight so I may not be comprehending what your saying. I would have to look more into it but I dont feel light intensity causes near the impact of degradation as heat would ... not sure if i misread what you were saying. So sorry in advance if I did

I dont think its the ppfd as mich as the heat
I guess the first question that comes to mind with all of this star trek photon flux uh stuff is... what does the sun put out to the plant's leaves and are these lights capable of producing more? Because if they are not then the flux theory goes right out the window as outdoor plants wouldn't survive if the theory was true. We already know that heat breaks down THC, causes faster degradation etc.

My mentor taught me to stop over thinking the plant. They survived thousands and thousands of years before us, and unless we kill everything then they will be here thousands of years after too.

Theres a natural balance that the plant responds to. There is a reason a photo plant reacts to light time and temp the way it does and starts spitting resins hard when it cools. That last push to reproduce. Stickier means high probability of catching more pollen.

It also means less heat.

And *cheers*. Jager Cold Brew :)
 
Milson

Milson

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I guess the first question that comes to mind with all of this star trek photon flux uh stuff is... what does the sun put out to the plant's leaves and are these lights capable of producing more? Because if they are not then the flux theory goes right out the window as outdoor plants wouldn't survive if the theory was true. We already know that heat breaks down THC, causes faster degradation etc.

My mentor taught me to stop over thinking the plant. They survived thousands and thousands of years before us, and unless we kill everything then they will be here thousands of years after too.

Theres a natural balance that the plant responds to. There is a reason a photo plant reacts to light time and temp the way it does and starts spitting resins hard when it cools. That last push to reproduce. Stickier means high probability of catching more pollen.

It also means less heat.

And *cheers*. Jager Cold Brew :)
Yes, sunlight behaves the same way, there's just a hell of a lot more of it, it's way further away, and it has its own spectrum. But yes the light degrades the same way. We are just getting such a miniscule fraction from such an absurdly powerful source. You can decide this is unweaving the rainbow or whatever, but this is scientifically pretty certain.
 
mysticepipedon

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Sunlight does behave the same way, but you need to realize that the important difference is the distance from the light source, not the distance between different parts of the plant that is being hit by the light source.

The sun is 93+ million miles away. The three feet between an upper plant bud and a lower plant bud is nothing in terms of the amount of light energy that hits each. But if your LED fixture is 18 inches from a top bud and 36 inches from a lower bud, the lower bud is getting much less light energy because there's double the attenuation.
 
MHippie

MHippie

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Yes, sunlight behaves the same way, there's just a hell of a lot more of it, it's way further away, and it has its own spectrum. But yes the light degrades the same way. We are just getting such a miniscule fraction from such an absurdly powerful source. You can decide this is unweaving the rainbow or whatever, but this is scientifically pretty certain.
Lol I'll just keep dealing with the sun...
 
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