Is aeroponics better than DDS's system?

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L

Loudblunts

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I don't know if you were implying me, but I just wanted to say I didnt mean to give that impression at all. I am a fan of many different systems, and I think anyone getting over 2.5, heck even 2lb per tree is on a good thing, and given development and tweaking could match dd's rdwc buckets. Given that roots need oxygen and nutrients, there is no reason that a well setup aero wouldn't produce similar results, it just hasn't been laid out for everyone like DD has done for us:rauch08:

Ozzie


i wasnt targeting nobody, i was speaking in general from forum to forum, edge of the earth to the other.

you know what i mean... both spectrums too. 'tag' boys and the bucket boys...

but i didnt even see your post. only thing i would say is the misleading about gpw in vertical and plant count... yall do alot of work to achieve 1.0 gpw grows.



ill clarify: given the same environment, would aeroponic yield more?

The hydroponic technical people discuss how aeroponics is theoretically the best. They will usually make mention quite often of the term "DO." However, I see the school of hard knocks with people lke Heath and DDS and the likes pumping out huge plants with great GPW ratio, without using aero. And I fail to see aero people competing, so is it a matter of aero people simlpy not trying?

The tree farmer made an amazing thread about aero trees, although he mentioned he wasn't happy with the results, it was only his first time trying and he has much to learn before he can max out.

Basically what I am getting at is, maybe aeroponics doesn't actually live up to its reputation in real world scenarios.

your thesis is wrong and you are going at it wrong....

aero is not intended for yield. its dubbed the holy grail because of its speed. speed speed speed, not to mention efficiency.

i get roots to pop in 3-5 days.... cant do that with fully submerged cloners like dwc and the like.

like said before, all water sports will get you into the 'yield more' category. but that is still doesnt mean shit. if you cant grow, dont expect some 'magical' system to come and save yer ass.

with that said.... all hydro systems dialed in, shouldnt yield more or less than one another... should be on average.

Furthermore, Aeroponics is NOT about DO. You are getting yourself confused. In true type setups you rarely have any medium just roots in air and no roots sitting in water. There is nothing to dissolve the oxygen in, so therefore would not be DO.

This is the big difference. hydroponics struggle to dissolve the air, while aeroponics greatest strength is the explosiveness from it.

When you give the roots dry periods, it encourages root growth, explosive root growth. The dry periods is what harnesses the air/oxygen and allows it that way. In water sports mainly hydroponics and less aeroponics, we have to inject air into our water, or have water constantly moving.... or our plants would drown and suffocate. In that type of setup, our medium is water, so the gas (oxygen) has to dissolve, however, water has a saturation point and the warmer the water is, the faster it gets to saturation.


Heath gets great GPW cuz he knows what it takes with the feeding schedule, never burning, low EC to allow for more DO and just knows his all around shit.

he yielded like 2.4gpw from his 600 watter.... albeit a vertical enclosed contraption with mounds of plants that look like you gotta do a spiderpig move to get in, but still nice none the less and he doesnt grow big plants.

DD and the like gets yield cuz yall be vegging for so damn long and have vertical lighting. Whereas a SoG grower would look at yall and laugh cuz those 3-4 weeks yall vegging he is harvesting/putting in another crop to flower...

so idk its kinda a trade off and personal preference.


and of course aero lives up to real world experience, but of course you say that because you comes off as real world experience to you is 4# plants, no?

dont be so naive bro people have hard time hitting 4# outside.

its NOT the growing system! Its the amount of light and the skill of the grower!!!
 
L

Lost

2,969
38
LB - The longest you veg in a MPB is 2 weeks. Before then the clones are probablly 2-4 weeks old from roots. Because the plant count is so low, you can easilly veg up your plants while another crop is running.

I have yet to see a big tree aero grow.. Im all for it, sounds good. Hell if I can yield off of it with a low plant count, i'll head to the RV graveyard and start slavaging used shit tanks tomorrow! Its just frustrating to hear about the mythical system in the sky, and no one post shit. Hell, if I learn something I post it up. I just don't understand the secrecy behind it.

Lets face it. Its a RV shit tank with a bunch of sprayers and foggers inside. Why the mystery? Anyone could go out and buy one and set it up, its not rocket science.. let see what it can do, before we challenge proven systems is all. :)
 
M

MASSES 420KING

Guest
I have been reading that aeroponics is the best way to grow, however, I have never seen a 4# plant with aeroponics. Do you think aeroponics is better than DDS system?

i believe that you can get the same size trees as DD does all day you would just have to tweak the aeroponics system and also it depends on the aero system that your using, for instance i have been gazing more and more at dds system and wondering if i modified my rain forest 318 by putting a custom top on it and making a 10" hole in center [for plant] and then instead of running 1 vortex water pump[atomizes the nutrient/water] run 2 and put those on opposite sides of the bucket you would deffinatley be able to pull something like that off and now make it aero yields on dd sized plants:passingjoint::passingjoint::cool0010:
 
T

tree farmer

63
6
LB - The longest you veg in a MPB is 2 weeks. Before then the clones are probablly 2-4 weeks old from roots. Because the plant count is so low, you can easilly veg up your plants while another crop is running.

I have yet to see a big tree aero grow.. Im all for it, sounds good. Hell if I can yield off of it with a low plant count, i'll head to the RV graveyard and start slavaging used shit tanks tomorrow! Its just frustrating to hear about the mythical system in the sky, and no one post shit. Hell, if I learn something I post it up. I just don't understand the secrecy behind it.

Lets face it. Its a RV shit tank with a bunch of sprayers and foggers inside. Why the mystery? Anyone could go out and buy one and set it up, its not rocket science.. let see what it can do, before we challenge proven systems is all. :)


hey lost ive always enjoyed checking out your threads when i get the time. what would you consider a big tree aero grow?

i dont know if your refering to my aero system (mythical system in the sky)but i also try and post what i learn as i progress from run to run. my last tree run may have not been as big as some trees but id say for the amount of light i had on them they didnt do bad.
ive only done 2 full runs attempting trees in HP aero so i dont think i can really say whether HP aero can reach 4lb trees yet, but this i know from just the 2 runs ive done in HP aero and from running lp aero trees many years ago, im certain aero can produce 2-3 lb trees because i wasnt that far from that on the last run and have reached it in the lp aero systems before.

i dont remember what your averaging from your system but are you seeing the numbers dd brings in. his runs i saw were great but i havent seen anyone using his system document and reach those same numbers.
 
L

Lost

2,969
38
Dunno if your system is jk's or not?

Your aero is sick and I did not know you were getting 2 and 3 pounds per, thats great. Im mostly refering to how j/k talks about this mythical system and how its the uberest of the uber but never any pics or how to's. I guess the bottom of the line is that he's looking to limit the info on this system to keep himself in business, but thats rather shortsighted.

One just has to ask onself, if its truely better (reliability being a huge part of that), then why not do a dd's and show people how. You'll get more business that way anyhow.. Most people are happy to know how it works and how its put together and still pay someone to do it, lol..
 
T

tree farmer

63
6
Dunno if your system is jk's or not?

Your aero is sick and I did not know you were getting 2 and 3 pounds per, thats great. Im mostly refering to how j/k talks about this mythical system and how its the uberest of the uber but never any pics or how to's. I guess the bottom of the line is that he's looking to limit the info on this system to keep himself in business, but thats rather shortsighted.

One just has to ask onself, if its truely better (reliability being a huge part of that), then why not do a dd's and show people how. You'll get more business that way anyhow.. Most people are happy to know how it works and how its put together and still pay someone to do it, lol..


well you can tell im not up on everything going on here so i thought maybe you were refering to me. i have no idea how JK system works because ive never seen or heard how it works. it certainly isnt like mine though from the little i have heard him talk about it.

i really do enjoy your posts (wasnt pulling your leg on that)because i can relate to alot of what you say and know you tell it the way it is without stretching the truth. something thats hard to find in cyberspace.
 
D

Donkdbz

309
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Reality is plant numbers, money and space available defines what the better system is. Assume that most people grow in a bedroom or garage with your typical 8 foot ceiliing. Next say you have 10-15k for setup. Then plant numbers.

Some sort of parameters need to be set in order to determine which is better.
 
M

MASSES 420KING

Guest
Reality is plant numbers, money and space available defines what the better system is. Assume that most people grow in a bedroom or garage with your typical 8 foot ceiliing. Next say you have 10-15k for setup. Then plant numbers.

Some sort of parameters need to be set in order to determine which is better.

parameters we dont need no stinkin parameters lol its innovation brotha were trying to figure it out as we go and modify and then remodify the parameters have been set and broken so many times since the beginning of indoor growing that you really cant set parameters cause you limit yourself sincerly
:420:king
 
A

antimatter

417
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I still gotta hand it to the Krusty Bucket, cheap startup if your just running a simple drip/nft to start and when your financially ready you can upgrade and add air in the buckets creating an aero environment without sprayers.
 
M

mrdizzle

1,895
48
I wanted to let everyone know that DD system doesnt have to be as $$ as everyone thinks. I spent closer to $1500 not $15,000 and have been getting great results. the largest $$$ in the DD system is the A/C and C02. you have to buy the exact same stuff u would need for a krusty bucket system, basically in a krusty you dont have the 1800gph pump, otherwise you need still need a chiller, a air pump, and a top drip pump. simple in and out vents still work for trees. Of course sealing up your room is going to bump up your yeilds big time but understand that its a flexable system and you can still pull great yeilds from low plant counts
 
A

antimatter

417
18
I wanted to let everyone know that DD system doesnt have to be as $$ as everyone thinks. I spent closer to $1500 not $15,000 and have been getting great results. the largest $$$ in the DD system is the A/C and C02. you have to buy the exact same stuff u would need for a krusty bucket system, basically in a krusty you dont have the 1800gph pump, otherwise you need still need a chiller, a air pump, and a top drip pump. simple in and out vents still work for trees. Of course sealing up your room is going to bump up your yeilds big time but understand that its a flexable system and you can still pull great yeilds from low plant counts

Every dollar counts when your setting up a grow, $2500 for a 4 plant setup is what Krunch paid and still managed to get some root rot at 65 water temps and lost 2 plants but the same could be said about kbs there have been more then a few lost plants to not buying a chiller or power failures (not a bad idea to have a UPS).
 
S

sudo

2
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hello everybody, great forum you have here. i just read the sealed room vs. intake/exhaust topic, a lot of great information, thanks for that.

----

I was always wondering why you americans would put 5k lights for 4 plants ... that seemed very strange to me as a European, because here you have approx. 30w per plant. (In my experience 600w are by far most commonly used, often with 20-25 plants per m², i think thats 3x3 feet.) At first I assumed that it would have to do with yor low prices for electricity.
But if you are facing way more problems when having higher number of plants it seems quite smart to me to optimize yield of few plants. In Europe, yield in general is important for the judges, not depending if you got it from 5 or 200 plants.

Nevertheless the discussion is quite interesting, cause i (wohoo surprise ;-)) favor lots of plants, short veg periods and way less watts per plants. when having 10k (9.6k)watts, you will definitely use ~320 plants if not more here. (16x600w:16x20=320)
I dont like vegging for more then 1 week, cause it uses more electricty (18/6) and i loose min. one crop per year.

one example (dp euforia, i love this strain, good phenos 50d flower):

"trees"
10k watts 1.2g/w 27d veg 50d flower = 11w = 4grows p. year = 48k/year

"sog"
10k watts 0.8g/w 6d veg 50d flower = 8w = 6grows p. year = 48k/year

in addition, the short veg period will save me lost of energy for having only 6d 18/6 and need less energy to cool the room ...

greetings
 
C

Comercial

87
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Exact reason i switched.... and now I can law my head on my pillow and worry about pumps.... going out ect... and not the fucking PO PO.

Comercial

How long is a piece of string? You have to keep in mind, there may be a way, tho highly unlikely, to get more grams per watt than DD's method, or at least equal to, but they all involve high plant numbers. This system was developed for patients with a limited plant number to grow large volumes from small plant numbers. Also people is area's where growing is illegal would most likely get in far less trouble with 4-12 plants compared to 60-200+.

Ozzie
 
mikeross

mikeross

444
43
"trees"
10k watts 1.2g/w 27d veg 50d flower = 11w = 4grows p. year = 48k/year

"sog"
10k watts 0.8g/w 6d veg 50d flower = 8w = 6grows p. year = 48k/year

Tree grower who have a seperate veg room are getting 5-6 harvest a year.
 
Giddeon

Giddeon

599
28
"trees"
10k watts 1.2g/w 27d veg 50d flower = 11w = 4grows p. year = 48k/year

"sog"
10k watts 0.8g/w 6d veg 50d flower = 8w = 6grows p. year = 48k/year

in addition, the short veg period will save me lost of energy for having only 6d 18/6 and need less energy to cool the room ...

greetings

Well if you clone your next set in the beginning of week 4 of your flowering cycle clones should be rooted by middle of week 5, veg them through the end of the flowering cycle weeks 6,7,8,9, that is 4 weeks under 1k watt MH. Then while trimming the few large plants you have, put the new clones in the flowering system veg for 5-10 more days and flip and then do it all over again.

With this schedule you should be able to harvest 6 times in just over a year, Using only one 1k watt MH on a 18/6 light cycle, Vegging for 4 weeks, 6 times a year. (18x7x4x6=3024 hrs or 1k watt on time per year)

300 plants takes at least 5k watts to veg properly, so 5k watts on 18/6 cycle for 1 week 6 times a year.
(18x7x6=756 hrs of 5k watts on time in a year)

If I run my one 1k watt bulb for 3024 hrs a year its 3,024,000kWh (3024x1000=3,024,000) (dont know if the unit here is kWh or what sorry but thats what I am going to label it as for this problem)

and when you run 5k watts for 756 hrs a year it would be 3,780,000kWh (5000x756=3,780,000)

Seems even though I veg for longer, and the same number of times per year I still use less power over all for my veg.
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
Dunno if your system is jk's or not?

Your aero is sick and I did not know you were getting 2 and 3 pounds per, thats great. Im mostly refering to how j/k talks about this mythical system and how its the uberest of the uber but never any pics or how to's. I guess the bottom of the line is that he's looking to limit the info on this system to keep himself in business, but thats rather shortsighted.

One just has to ask onself, if its truely better (reliability being a huge part of that), then why not do a dd's and show people how. You'll get more business that way anyhow.. Most people are happy to know how it works and how its put together and still pay someone to do it, lol..

Lost if you want me to hold your hand and explain it to you personally pm me and I will. I am trying to get to a show next month and show my new system. I have a 36 gal tank now. I have combined my 1000 and 3000 options in one tank. Cost me about 20 bucks more but will save on storage and ease of orders. Way more options then a dd rcdwc or uc in one tank. But then my gm1000 did that all by itself. You know if I had one person that was not totally satisfied I would be reading about it. Never one warranty issue in 6 years. If any of you have any questions let me know in a pm or another thread. Suerte JK
Aero kicks ass if you have the tools,the eye to see shit coming before it hits.
One reason I question you guys especially people like Mr. D is you got bite by the rot and bailed rather then modify your tanks to keep your roots heathier. Just steal my port hole design so you can see and treat your roots. Anyone the limits themselves like that gets what they deserve. Take his designs,mine uc and whoever and build a better mousetrap.
 
mikeross

mikeross

444
43
Lost if you want me to hold your hand and explain it to you personally pm me and I will. I am trying to get to a show next month and show my new system. I have a 36 gal tank now. I have combined my 1000 and 3000 options in one tank. Cost me about 20 bucks more but will save on storage and ease of orders. Way more options then a dd rcdwc or uc in one tank. But then my gm1000 did that all by itself. You know if I had one person that was not totally satisfied I would be reading about it. Never one warranty issue in 6 years. If any of you have any questions let me know in a pm or another thread. Suerte JK
Aero kicks ass if you have the tools,the eye to see shit coming before it hits.
One reason I question you guys especially people like Mr. D is you got bite by the rot and bailed rather then modify your tanks to keep your roots heathier. Just steal my port hole design so you can see and treat your roots. Anyone the limits themselves like that gets what they deserve. Take his designs,mine uc and whoever and build a better mousetrap.

What show and what city? I would love to take a look at this system of yours.
 
M

mrdizzle

1,895
48
I pay $3000 dollar a month for rent. It wasnt the system that fucked up, it was me
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
I pay $3000 dollar a month for rent. It wasnt the system that fucked up, it was me

Lord knows there are not many growers broker then me (moneywise), so I can relate. I tell new clients how expensive it can be and to have enough banked to do 2 runs without a harvest just in case. It's a bitch to have a killer room and can not afford to turn the lights on.
But you can not let it bite you and quit. It's like trying to ride a bike, sometimes you have to fall a few times. Just have to shake it off. Suerte JK
 
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