Is CalMag a pH buffer?

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Cashmeh

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You only need 12 elements to grow cannabis hydroponically, humic acid and bennies are not required in a sterile hydroponic environment, and silica products are no longer recommended for liquid feeds due to the likelihood of salt precipitation. Your water should be dead, the opposite of organic. Humic acid is an organic material. Also avoid their sweetners which contain 5% molasses and or 95% cane sugar, also organic materials. Plants are autotrophic and produce sugar, they don’t need to be fed it in hydro. Sugar used is to feed microbes in soil.

A chiller is required to keep proper res temp.and prevent bacteria growth, products like hydro guard are only required in an improper setup.

cleanse or uc roots, cococal, or calimagic, and a/b. All you need to veg.

for flower simply swap veg a/b for bloom and add a mkp supplement. Nothing to it. And it’s definitely best to only use ro in hydro.
"products like hydro guard are only required in an improper setup."

If you increase your res tems, you increase the plants metabolism. You will get faster growth rates running 72f than you will 68f. Its proven. So when we build our systems to run warm water, we do it on purpose. Had the system in that picture ran at warmer water temps, it would have produce the same quality in a shorter time frame, OR more of the same quality in the same time frame.

To those who enjoy killing microbs in water, good luck lol. This will only last so long. Just like the real world, plants interact with microorganisms to keep them healthy. Ever heard of super bugs?

I would never reccommend someone adding peroxide to their res. Sure it works now lol, but how many years has it been working? What happens when there is a strain of fungi that you cant kill with peroxide? Sure its not here yet lol, but just like with silly humans, if you keep it in a bubble and kill all microbes, the big one will come wipe out everything.

I also use Massive stimulant, Idk whats in it, but it smells sweet as hell. My microbe community loves it apparently cause my hydrogard bbs keep my Roots white. Microbes also help increase growth rates by keeping the root zone clean, something that sterile lacks.

I run res temps of 74f on purpose, with hydroguard.

Looking at that system in the picture theres no way it could run live, it would have to run sterile, to many light leaks. That system needs painted black lol. . you wont need to use near as much UC roots if ya do.
 
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JohnnyApp

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I agree, increasing res temp increases metabolism, that said, 68-72 is the generally accepted ideal range for more reasons than metabolism alone.

Many growers will begin a cycle at 72 and gradually reduce to 68 as the plants roots become established and begin to require more DO. Higher temps equal lower DO levels and a higher (likelihood) of bacteria/nutrient issues.

Personally, Ive been running dwc since 2008 and have never encountered a “super bug” yet. I don’t run peroxide as it chemically burns roots, cleanse/uc roots is hypochlorous acid, a weak acid which is very friendly to skin and roots alike. I run 2mL/gallon and never experience rot, and it’s great for cleaning/sterilizing/cloning, ect.

As far as dissolved oxygen is concerned the plant will require more of it as the root system expands so therefore if your temperature remains constant @74 how do you increase DO to match the every increasing DO requirements? Add more airstones?

Too much turbulence in a system causes precipitation so it would be a risk, but doable I suppose.

The ladies in the pictures above are in a CC 18 XXL system with a 4 site expansion kit. 22 total plants, 18 lights, 4 week veg, 8.5 week flower, drops about 32-36lbs every 12.5 weeks. And there’s only one airstone per bucket, zero hydroguard, zero bennies.

Also, the system you say needs to be painted black, dropped 10-12lbs, like clockwork every 11.5 weeks using 24 plants, 8 Fluence 335 spyders and a 3 week Veg which was overkill.
 
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Cashmeh

Cashmeh

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I agree, increasing res temp increases metabolism, that said, 68-72 is the generally accepted ideal range for more reasons than metabolism alone.

Many growers will begin a cycle at 72 and gradually reduce to 68 as the plants roots become established and begin to require more DO. Higher temps equal lower DO levels and a higher (likelihood) of bacteria/nutrient issues.

Personally, Ive been running dwc since 2008 and have never encountered a “super bug” yet. I don’t run peroxide as it chemically burns roots, cleanse/uc roots is hypochlorous acid, a weak acid which is very friendly to skin and roots alike. I run 2mL/gallon and never experience rot, and it’s great for cleaning/sterilizing/cloning, ect.

As far as dissolved oxygen is concerned the plant will require more of it as the root system expands so therefore if your temperature remains constant @74 how do you increase DO to match the every increasing DO requirements? Add more airstones?

Too much turbulence in a system causes precipitation so it would be a risk, but doable I suppose.

The ladies in the pictures above are in a CC 18 XXL system with a 4 site expansion kit. 22 total plants, 18 lights, 4 week veg, 8.5 week flower, drops about 32-36lbs every 12.5 weeks. And there’s only one airstone per bucket, zero hydroguard, zero bennies.

Also, the system you say needs to be painted black, dropped 10-12lbs, like clockwork every 11.5 weeks using 24 plants, 8 Fluence 335 spyders and a 3 week Veg which was overkill.
So if you increase their metabolism, you will also increase the amount of o2 they uptake, regardless what the waters levels are.

Again I dont know how long we have been at war with microbes, im assuming since the early 1900s this go around, who knows before then. But farmers have kindof put themselves into a hole in regards to pesticides and genetics. You get the shit that kills everything but one strain. So overall, sure good now, but I only see bad down the road. Not saying it canot be done by all means, just saying there are other options.

And yea i dont mean to be a critic at all on that first bucket system. Just saying if it was painted and light was not as able to penetrate it, fungi growth would not be as prominent, not saying you had an issue with it, because you used h202 or whatever it was. Now that second system you posted im sure doesnt leak light like the first one.

Everyone does it just like you do for reasons, and im not saying they are wrong at all. Im just stating that possibly, like with humans and our food farmers, perhaps we should limit what we kill in our gardens. Self sustaining ecosystems like aquaponics is what im more less refering to. Im not saying you have to do anything or should, im just sayin for the other readers that there are plenty of other ways to combat fungi growth in the root system.

I am an avid critic of the worlds war on microbes, apologies ahead of time.

Id encourage you to do a small trial for yourself when it comes to res temps and beneficial bacteria. Not saying your wrong for not doing it, but I can assure you that the growth rates are increased for the entire grow when you increase res temps up to 72f. So in my eyes, thats why I went to hydro, so might as well make my hydro system perform as well as it should. To me if I ditched my hydroguard and lowered res temps to 68, and used h202. . it would take me twice as long to get the same weight.

Idk how this data is extrapulated but I can get about 1.25lbs out of a 4x4 using a 1000w regardless of 1 or 2 month veg time. For some reason my longer veg times didnt really effect yield.
 
Anthem

Anthem

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So if you increase their metabolism, you will also increase the amount of o2 they uptake, regardless what the waters levels are.

Again I dont know how long we have been at war with microbes, im assuming since the early 1900s this go around, who knows before then. But farmers have kindof put themselves into a hole in regards to pesticides and genetics. You get the shit that kills everything but one strain. So overall, sure good now, but I only see bad down the road. Not saying it canot be done by all means, just saying there are other options.

And yea i dont mean to be a critic at all on that first bucket system. Just saying if it was painted and light was not as able to penetrate it, fungi growth would not be as prominent, not saying you had an issue with it, because you used h202 or whatever it was. Now that second system you posted im sure doesnt leak light like the first one.

Everyone does it just like you do for reasons, and im not saying they are wrong at all. Im just stating that possibly, like with humans and our food farmers, perhaps we should limit what we kill in our gardens. Self sustaining ecosystems like aquaponics is what im more less refering to. Im not saying you have to do anything or should, im just sayin for the other readers that there are plenty of other ways to combat fungi growth in the root system.

I am an avid critic of the worlds war on microbes, apologies ahead of time.

Id encourage you to do a small trial for yourself when it comes to res temps and beneficial bacteria. Not saying your wrong for not doing it, but I can assure you that the growth rates are increased for the entire grow when you increase res temps up to 72f. So in my eyes, thats why I went to hydro, so might as well make my hydro system perform as well as it should. To me if I ditched my hydroguard and lowered res temps to 68, and used h202. . it would take me twice as long to get the same weight.

Idk how this data is extrapulated but I can get about 1.25lbs out of a 4x4 using a 1000w regardless of 1 or 2 month veg time. For some reason my longer veg times didnt really effect yield.
I am sorry but if you are only getting 1.25 out of a 1000W HPS with the strains you are running you are doing something wrong. And I run sterile as well.
 
Cashmeh

Cashmeh

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I am sorry but if you are only getting 1.25 out of a 1000W HPS with the strains you are running you are doing something wrong. And I run sterile as well.
Oh I have been doing things wrong every single grow. Pretty sure my lights are to far away. Pretty sure strains tower over other strains. My reflectors are shit. This is the first grow that I havnt stunted plant growth or ran them out of N. It's still a work in progress.
 
Moe.Red

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@JohnnyApp what is your feeling of quality differences between sterile and biologics? You obviously have at least a semi-commercial grow going there, have you tested any differences in quality, never mind the poundage or cost to grow?
 
JohnnyApp

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@JohnnyApp what is your feeling of quality differences between sterile and biologics? You obviously have at least a semi-commercial grow going there, have you tested any differences in quality, never mind the poundage or cost to grow?
I can’t speak as to the quality of a biological grow in hydro, however I have grown organically several times through the years.

I prefer the flavor and the growing process, save the lugging bags of dirt part, getting a little old for powerlifting 😂. That said, hydro is scalable and automated, more easily tweaked
 
Moe.Red

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I can’t speak as to the quality of a biological grow in hydro, however I have grown organically several times through the years.

I prefer the flavor and the growing process, save the lugging bags of dirt part, getting a little old for powerlifting 😂. That said, hydro is scalable and automated, more easily tweaked
To me, that's the reason to run biologics among all other reasons. I find the plant becomes a better version of itself when you let mother nature at least attempt to get a foothold in an otherwise engineered process. There are so many synergies between the critters, fungi and the plants, certainly beyond my understanding. But in my experience between sterile and a live res, weed is simply better in the latter. In terms of terps, minors, and complexity. The hassle is not worth it to some, but I'll never go back to sterile without compelling evidence.

For me it is the best middle ground between live soil and standard hydroponics.

And yeah, I don't lift shit. I only turn valves and flip switches.
 
Cashmeh

Cashmeh

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To me, that's the reason to run biologics among all other reasons. I find the plant becomes a better version of itself when you let mother nature at least attempt to get a foothold in an otherwise engineered process. There are so many synergies between the critters, fungi and the plants, certainly beyond my understanding. But in my experience between sterile and a live res, weed is simply better in the latter. In terms of terps, minors, and complexity. The hassle is not worth it to some, but I'll never go back to sterile without compelling evidence.

For me it is the best middle ground between live soil and standard hydroponics.

And yeah, I don't lift shit. I only turn valves and flip switches.
Im at day 36 flower and they are huge, with no res changes, only top offs. Res temps 74 average. No h2o2, no peroxide, all cellular walls intact.

My goal is to run the res bone dry by the end of the run. I dont know why, but I feel if it uses everything I put in it, and I never have to exchange water, I mean science right?? Thats pretty beneficial somewhere in the world. Imagine farms with no runoff pouring into our rivers. I took a marine biology class in college and he was talking about the Nitrogen levels where the Mississippi dumps into the gulf. Creates shit like dead zones where nothing can live.

Are res changes frequent in sterile systems? Like all I do is top off, but my ppms are at 650 right now. I dont even use enzymes. In my eyes they are not needed for live systems. Now sterile systems where your destroying microbes and making nutrients re-available again, sure add the enzymes and turn that plasma back into plant nutrients. But, you will have tons of shit that wont bond, and your ppms will slowly increase? Sound plausible?

Im almost comfortable buying my Biofloc shrimp farm materials :\
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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Im at day 36 flower and they are huge, with no res changes, only top offs. Res temps 74 average. No h2o2, no peroxide, all cellular walls intact.

My goal is to run the res bone dry by the end of the run. I dont know why, but I feel if it uses everything I put in it, and I never have to exchange water, I mean science right?? Thats pretty beneficial somewhere in the world. Imagine farms with no runoff pouring into our rivers. I took a marine biology class in college and he was talking about the Nitrogen levels where the Mississippi dumps into the gulf. Creates shit like dead zones where nothing can live.

Are res changes frequent in sterile systems? Like all I do is top off, but my ppms are at 650 right now. I dont even use enzymes. In my eyes they are not needed for live systems. Now sterile systems where your destroying microbes and making nutrients re-available again, sure add the enzymes and turn that plasma back into plant nutrients. But, you will have tons of shit that wont bond, and your ppms will slowly increase? Sound plausible?

Im almost comfortable buying my Biofloc shrimp farm materials :\
That's an interesting take on waste streams. Sounds like a spit in the ocean to me compared to commercial farming, but every little bit helps. Hopefully the plants don't mind.

I do res changes to re-balance nutes and get rid of wastes. For example plant hormones build up in the water if you never dump it.

Enzymes are useful in keeping the top layer of cells on the roots fresh. They act like an exfoliation works on your skin is the best analogy I can think of.

None of this is necessary - I do it because I believe it makes a better end product.
 
Cashmeh

Cashmeh

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That's an interesting take on waste streams. Sounds like a spit in the ocean to me compared to commercial farming, but every little bit helps. Hopefully the plants don't mind.

I do res changes to re-balance nutes and get rid of wastes. For example plant hormones build up in the water if you never dump it.

Enzymes are useful in keeping the top layer of cells on the roots fresh. They act like an exfoliation works on your skin is the best analogy I can think of.

None of this is necessary - I do it because I believe it makes a better end product.
So i guess im using aquaponic train of thought. I dont think they do res changes do they? More of bio filters right? Would media beds filter hormones or do the fish do something with them? Like I have a small oil substance on my res after 50 days with only topoffs. Im sure its from the silica as to my veg system never gets a film.

I know vitamin d when added can inhibit microbial growth. So like do any of my nutrients or bacteria use those hormones. Is there a specific enzyme i can use to basically flock it.
 
Aqua Man

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Bacteria fungi and all out little microbes absolutely affect quality and quantity…. Now measurably or substantially I cannot say always but the enzymes and metabolites produced and symbiotic relationships have evolved since the first plants on earth and interact with all living things both beneficial and negative.

not a single living organism does not absolutely REQUIRE microbes to survive and even we would die if we were without them.

FACT: We digest food by bacteria and the enzymes produced in order to break food down to the ionic form for out bodies to absorb nutrients.

FACT: Plants rely on soil microbes to do the same thing. The soil biology iS in essence their digestive system.

The synthetic nutrients we provide are broken down in to ionic form by various processes that REDUCE the reliance on microbes.

We have not even begun to under the tip of the iceberg on all the beneficial impacts that microbes provide cannabis both inside and outside of the plant

what you guys didn’t think I’d miss out on this discussion that deserves so much more attention than it gets.

here some fuel to the fire organic guys…. Plants only absorb nutrients in ionic form and therefore a plant CANNOT absorb organic nutrients…. and a nitrate is a nitrate no matter the source it started out as or the chemical or biological process it was derived from.

😎 figured this pot could use some stirring lmao
 
Aqua Man

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Oh and most all cal mag is not an adequate buffer unless you see a source of carbonate, bicarbonate, silicate or hydroxide in a significant amount on the label.

there are some but because cal and mag don’t really have a highly soluble form of those listed generally cal mag is prepared using Ca nitrate and Mg nitrate with some iron

Use potassium silicate/bicarbonate/hydroxide to name a few for a buffer.

have a read here.

 
Aqua Man

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So i guess im using aquaponic train of thought. I dont think they do res changes do they? More of bio filters right? Would media beds filter hormones or do the fish do something with them? Like I have a small oil substance on my res after 50 days with only topoffs. Im sure its from the silica as to my veg system never gets a film.

I know vitamin d when added can inhibit microbial growth. So like do any of my nutrients or bacteria use those hormones. Is there a specific enzyme i can use to basically flock it.
Yes biofilters to process waste into ionic form. When I used to breed discus I built an algae scrubber to eat the nutrient waste from the fish to keep my nitrate ppm below 5 ppm max and never had to change the water. Just top off.
 
Cashmeh

Cashmeh

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Yes biofilters to process waste into ionic form. When I used to breed discus I built an algae scrubber to eat the nutrient waste from the fish to keep my nitrate ppm below 5 ppm max and never had to change the water. Just top off.
So how about this. Im not using bio filters, im live with hydroguard at 73f average water temps. My 60 gallon capacity for 6 plants has been topped off with 0 water exchaange for 45 days now, deep flower, I add prolly 20 gallons every 2 or 3 days. My biggest issue is a film of oil in my res floating, and little white clumps in the film. i used a papertowel and soaked alot out. . .but other than forgetting to add calmag when topping off, my plants seem great minus the calmag deff they showed. I guess im saying, I dont use enzymes, and I dont have fish or algie to convert anything. I test nitrate, nitrite, calcium, magnesium(now), alkalinity, phosphate, and potassium ppms individually. My ppms are at 700 right now lol. . 45 days later. My nitrate ppms go down to about 60 and i top off with micro or calmag depending on hardness, but i bring them back up to 160ppms, my calcium stays around 100ppms, my potassium stays around 220ppm, and my phospate stays around 100ppms. I need a 4 part so that I can only add phospate, cause atm with flora grow blend, it adds potassium also, and yea thats why my potassium levels stay high. Anyways. . .i guess since I dont do full res changes once Ive added my starting capacity, like most. Is this process functionable sounding? Lets say I put in a oil skiimmer and a sediment tank on this system. . Could I do this indefinably? Or do the fish really play the important part in keeping levels consistant? Basically I feel like I can keep the water stable, without fish, but will there be a cost?
 
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Aqua Man

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So how about this. Im not using bio filters, im live with hydroguard at 73f average water temps. My 60 gallon capacity for 6 plants has been topped off with 0 water exchaange for 45 days now, deep flower, I add prolly 20 gallons every 2 or 3 days. My biggest issue is a film of oil in my res floating, and little white clumps in the film. i used a papertowel and soaked alot out. . .but other than forgetting to add calmag when topping off, my plants seem great minus the calmag deff they showed. I guess im saying, I dont use enzymes, and I dont have fish or algie to convert anything. I test nitrate, nitrite, calcium, magnesium(now), alkalinity, phosphate, and potassium ppms individually. My ppms are at 700 right now lol. . 45 days later. My nitrate ppms go down to about 60 and i top off with micro or calmag depending on hardness, but i bring them back up to 160ppms, my calcium stays around 100ppms, my potassium stays around 220ppm, and my phospate stays around 100ppms. I need a 4 part so that I can only add phospate, cause atm with flora grow blend, it adds potassium also, and yea thats why my potassium levels stay high. Anyways. . .i guess since I dont do full res changes once Ive added my starting capacity, like most. Is this process functionable sounding? Lets say I put in a oil skiimmer and a sediment tank on this system. . Could I do this indefinably? Or do the fish really play the important part in keeping levels consistant? Basically I feel like I can keep the water stable, without fish, but will there be a cost?
Get back at ya tomorrow bro just about to watch a movie. Hydrogaurd is a bacteria and it will populate on root and the side of tubing buckets and anything submerged. That’s clear slipper film is bacteria. You don’t need to have a bio filter to house bacteria, it’s just more efficient to do so.
I didn’t finish reading you post but just wanted to answer ya fast on that
 
Aqua Man

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Get back at ya tomorrow bro just about to watch a movie. Hydrogaurd is a bacteria and it will populate on root and the side of tubing buckets and anything submerged. That’s clear slipper film is bacteria. You don’t need to have a bio filter to house bacteria, it’s just more efficient to do so.
I didn’t finish reading you post but just wanted to answer ya fast on that
The oil is a biofilm it’s basically proteins. You can take a Paper towel and just lay it across the surface one a stone until it’s gone or use a wide container to skim it off.
Surface agitation is important also because that biofilm will reduce the gas exchange capacity of your system.

The fish in an aquaponic system provide organic nutrients in which are converted by you bacteria and the enzymes they produce into usable nutrients in ionic for that the plants can uptake.

bacteria themselves generally are not what’s doing the work but rather the enzymes they produce. Eg. nitrogen from waste is broken down into free ammonia and ammonium (ratio of form is highly dependent on the PH, the lower the PH the higher the ratio of ammonium) then a species of bacteria break that down and convert it to nitrite and then another species break nitrite down into nitrate.

From ammonium/ammonia to nitrate a rough conversation is 1ppm will end up being about 4ppm of nitrate. By testing free ammonia or ammonium and then nitrate you can veryify that you have those species doing the work and are healthy and thriving. For this to naturally occur without adding bacteria like hydrogaurd takes around 4-6 weeks. Adding these bacteria can reduce this to days

now imo the best way to achieve a system of minimum maintenance (this is advanced) is doing 50% changeouts so as to keep a thriving colony of bacteria to repopulate quickly. Many ppl don’t realize how fast this repopulation happens. Especially when you run at optimal temperature for growth. Not only does it spread up the metabolism of the plants and this growth but it also does the same for bacteria. As I believe we have discussed many times in the past you are bang on with your water temps and the difference from running 68f to 72f is absolutely measurable and notice in terms of growth.

your system is ideal and pretty much how I run mine, while some minor improvements could be made to remedy the biofilm it’s not necessary if you stay on top of it.

@Moe.Red is another I know was taking advantage of bacteria and last I checked we were taking about bio media and he had introduced some to his system. Bio media simply provides more housing for a higher population and would allow full changeouts without harm to the population. I feel it’s very important although I agree not an absolute necessity.

Im in the middle of starting a business now designing and building various grow systems some of which will be incorporating this very topic. I’m likely months away but when I do launch you can bet this is the place I will be sponsoring and donating some systems to if the staff is ok with that. After all this place has been so great to me and it’s my home so I want to give back if I can make this successful
 
Cashmeh

Cashmeh

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163
The oil is a biofilm it’s basically proteins. You can take a Paper towel and just lay it across the surface one a stone until it’s gone or use a wide container to skim it off.
Surface agitation is important also because that biofilm will reduce the gas exchange capacity of your system.

The fish in an aquaponic system provide organic nutrients in which are converted by you bacteria and the enzymes they produce into usable nutrients in ionic for that the plants can uptake.

bacteria themselves generally are not what’s doing the work but rather the enzymes they produce. Eg. nitrogen from waste is broken down into free ammonia and ammonium (ratio of form is highly dependent on the PH, the lower the PH the higher the ratio of ammonium) then a species of bacteria break that down and convert it to nitrite and then another species break nitrite down into nitrate.

From ammonium/ammonia to nitrate a rough conversation is 1ppm will end up being about 4ppm of nitrate. By testing free ammonia or ammonium and then nitrate you can veryify that you have those species doing the work and are healthy and thriving. For this to naturally occur without adding bacteria like hydrogaurd takes around 4-6 weeks. Adding these bacteria can reduce this to days

now imo the best way to achieve a system of minimum maintenance (this is advanced) is doing 50% changeouts so as to keep a thriving colony of bacteria to repopulate quickly. Many ppl don’t realize how fast this repopulation happens. Especially when you run at optimal temperature for growth. Not only does it spread up the metabolism of the plants and this growth but it also does the same for bacteria. As I believe we have discussed many times in the past you are bang on with your water temps and the difference from running 68f to 72f is absolutely measurable and notice in terms of growth.

your system is ideal and pretty much how I run mine, while some minor improvements could be made to remedy the biofilm it’s not necessary if you stay on top of it.

@Moe.Red is another I know was taking advantage of bacteria and last I checked we were taking about bio media and he had introduced some to his system. Bio media simply provides more housing for a higher population and would allow full changeouts without harm to the population. I feel it’s very important although I agree not an absolute necessity.

Im in the middle of starting a business now designing and building various grow systems some of which will be incorporating this very topic. I’m likely months away but when I do launch you can bet this is the place I will be sponsoring and donating some systems to if the staff is ok with that. After all this place has been so great to me and it’s my home so I want to give back if I can make this successful
Well, im center of the US(st.louis) with a huge building. Im actually in the process of doing the same thing. Designing a shippable kit that will replace a soil pot. Thing is, its not going to be like these other systems available that require chillers. I am creating a booklet with it too. Basically anyone who buys the system will be told not to listen to advice from people with water chillers and h2o2 lol. Gonnaa link them here for resources. In my state in the next few years they will make it recreational where everyone can grow 1 plant. I plan to have the kits ready by then lol. . I like your style ill just say that.

I mean ive learned it all from you, then you come back validating all my opinions after im sure I cant be the one whos right, cause if im the one whos right, then we live in a very scary world. The war on micrboes started with medicine, then farmers, then sanitizing chemicles and yea yea. . i see the microbes ending us before we end them. So for me, I want to work with them, not against them. Perhaps you will need a shipping center in the middle of America lol.
 

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