is it beneficial to deleaf during flower?

[blazer]

I'm in flower aprox 3wks left was getting advice to delaef all large fan leafs for purpose of more light penetration gut tells me not to mess with want to see what rest of u farmers experience with deleafing or leving as is
Peace blazer out

 

[jimbobthe3rd]

I always de-leaf bro. Otherwise you're stuck with hash material underneath that isn't as developped as the top stuff.

I've seen people at harvest time, chop the top half of their plants off and begin trimming, while leaving the underneath under-developped nugs to ripen a bit more due to lack of light, that could easily be avoided by simply de-leafing tho.

 

[tomvega420]

These guys say it well.

IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, When a large FAN leaf starts yellowing, say it is half yellow, that means in the photosynthesis process, that leaf has ate nutes, sucked in some LIGHT and made food for the plant and buds and NOW, half of that is gone, or used or consumed. Well, what about the other half? Can it not it's energy still be used or consumed?

AND when it is ALL consumed or used, that leaf will naturally just fall off.

Years ago I tried removing lower fan leaves to allow more Light to penetrate in. When i did, the plant went into shock for a day or two, and quit eating or only ate half as much, and just went on "stand by" mode. Then, after a day or two, suddenly, I saw that big fan leaf replaced by a new leaf, and I saw my plant use the energy to replace that leaf, more than it used it to grow bigger and make more buds or bigger buds.

I now believe that removing fan leaves is pointless, and that a leaf has a purpose and will serve that purpose until it is dead. Then it will fall off.

Don't ever remove fan leaves before harvest for several reasons.

1. The fan leaves MAKE AND STORE energy for the plant. The fan leaves are doing a process called photosynthsis, and it is the most important part or task or job the plant does, to make it grow. They make the FOOD, the sugars and carbs needed to grow.

If you remove a FAN leaf, the plant will stop growing taller until it can replace that removed fan leaf.

Removing a healthy fan leaf is a big waste of time..they are rapided replaced,, unless you are in the last few weeks of flowering.

2. Even if the fan leaves are yellowing in late bloom I do not remove them until they are almost ready to fall off. The yellowing in the fan leaves at late harvest is the plants metabolism at work. She is transferring all stored energy in the fan leaf to bud production. It is the easiest source of energy she has late in life.

 

[motherlode]

indoor plants supplied with plenty of water and nutes do not need these leaves late in flower

leave them on til the end and it does 2 things - makes your flush time longer and all your bottom shit larfy

 

[420alldaze]

i would have to agree with ml. speaking from my own experience,i pulled some bigger fan leaves towards the end of flower on a lemon skunk and left the other one alone and got riper nugz underneath. i guess its all up to the individual person and plant. good luck peacentreez

 

[innercityphunk]

I tuck the leaves when possible. but the real obstructive ones I pull.

try not to pull to many off at a time. u don't want to shock them.

icp

 

[stillcantroll]

Response

I conducted a little grow experiment to test this exact topic for myself, as I was just as unclear on the topic as you are. There was a very detailed thread on this that was stickied on icmag, and I followded it to a T. Now, I use 2x 400w HPS (nothing too serious), and I did an aggressive de-leafing on 12 plants (twice in veg, and all throughout flower, all big fans off, smaller ones left on), I did a deleafing 6 weeks into flower on 3 plants, and I left all leaves on the last 3 as a control group.

I can say with absolutely confidence that deleafing from veg all the way till the end of flowering is a complete mistake. The buds, *especially* the trophy cola buds, were tremendously underdeveloped on the deleafed plants relative to the control and late flower plucked plants. The plants that were plucked with 2 weeks left in flower, however, showed no signs of underdevelopment relative to the control group, however, I didn't notice an increase in flush times, or an increase in lower bud development. I will say though this is more than likely due to the poor penetration of my 400w bulbs.

In my experience, weaker branches, branches / leaves that have no hope of getting light, and leaves that are sick should be removed. I run a horizontal setup with these bulbs, so for me, thats a typical lollipop scenario with a 2 week veg, where I leave the cola, and 4-5 of the top brances, and the rest goes. I find the quality / size of the remaining bud goes up, and you save yourself a lot of trouble when it comes time to trim, and you're pissing yourself off throwing all those branches you should have trimmed off in the "bubble bag" pile. In addition to this, you make the lives of pests and mold very difficult. It's a no brainer, and for me this is no longer theory, i've done the side by sides and its a clear winner.

Your mileage may vary, but best of luck with whatever you decide!!

 

[vancerz]

I pull fan leafs all the time without ANY problems, in veg and flower without it effecting my yield I have does multiple runs to test it out with multiple strains and if done right it actually improves yield.here is one test when i frist started doing it,I took this example to the max. I got the same yeild just smaller buds all over the plants. I dont do it this extream anymore, but if done right it completely removes the need to lollipop and top the plants and is a powerful tool in canopy management by stunting vertical growth in only the tops you defoliate. I dont ever use bushmaster anymore because of this technique.

 

[jimbobthe3rd]

I think the shock you give to the plant when de-leafing must be strain dependant. And i'd recommend leaving all the leaves on during veg, as more surface area on more fan leaves will increase growth rate due to more photosynthesis being performed.

I think that 3-4 weeks into flower, it is ok to remove some fan leaves to allow more light penetration, but i wouldn't totally deleaf the plant, maybe only 30% of big light blocking fan leaves will go.

Just think about it, theoretically would work like solar panels, the more you have (more fan leaves), the more energy can be created, due to having more surface area to perform the energy creating synthesis.

The guy above me is correct in sayin that the branches/heads that wont recieve good light should be removed either early or when you flip the girls to avoid frustration at the end of your cycle.

I've found this thread a great topical debate, thanks for everyones input :).

 

[vancerz]

defoliating can be a great benefit during veg it bushes the plant out and thickens the stems, it will also cost time and stunt vertical growth while the lower catches up. this like LSTing lollipoping or any other method it can be beneficial to certain setups and detrimental to others. If veg time is not a problem it might be for you.

even with a lot of leafs removed during veg the plant replaces them very fast.

With that said when removing growth I remove probably the top 20 percent of fan leaves now and when you pull them does effect it, I prefer to pull during the frist 2 weeks of flowering to control the canopy. and ill defoliate in veg to control height and increase thickness of stems and bud sites.

I also have found the less fan leafs a plant naturally has the harder it is to get the same response by plucking them(IE SOGS SSH) and ill often have to defoliate the top multiple times to get the bushing effect does this apply to them all i dunno.

i was able to make this rascal ogs barley stretch during flower 2 different phenos, it normally is a big stretcher.

 

[motherlode]

^^^ good example

some nice little dank bushes - all frost!

 

[osidecannabis]

its funny i stumbled upon this now, in a couple of days i will be trimming down my plants. i like to lst a week or so before flower and then cut out the under growth and any malformed nodes/stalks at the 2 week mark. i do not remove any fan leaves from the top of the plant. after this i do not cut any thing of till the day of harvest. i usually average a million pounds*.




*accuracy of scale +/- 1,000,000 lbs

 

[username09]

check this out
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=174163

it has alot of info and perspectives on defoliation.

 

[motherlode]

its funny i stumbled upon this now, in a couple of days i will be trimming down my plants. i like to lst a week or so before flower and then cut out the under growth and any malformed nodes/stalks at the 2 week mark. i do not remove any fan leaves from the top of the plant. after this i do not cut any thing of till the day of harvest. i usually average a million pounds*.




*accuracy of scale +/- 1,000,000 lbs

thats with t-5s right?

 

[Cort]

Combo of a halogen work light, a black light and a strobe light (with red filter for flowering, blue filter for veg)

 

[CelticEBE]

Though I don't have a LOT of experience, I'm going to share a bit of what I have learned here and some of it being common sense. Fan leaves are key to Photosynthesis. I remember reading one of DD's threads where he said that he doesn't remove Fan's as they are "Little Sugar Factories". So to me it makes sense to remove buds that will turn out LARF like instead of fans. I do think a lot of it is strain dependent, but in general terms I think a plant is a plant and the more leaves you remove the harder it makes it for the plant to do it's job.

Thusly I think it's better to remove buds that aren't getting any light instead of fan leaves that are. On my current run I removed a few fans, but mostly just got rid of any "budlets" that weren't developing because of a lack of light. I'm blown away by the results.

 

[vancerz]

Though I don't have a LOT of experience, I'm going to share a bit of what I have learned here and some of it being common sense. Fan leaves are key to Photosynthesis. I remember reading one of DD's threads where he said that he doesn't remove Fan's as they are "Little Sugar Factories". So to me it makes sense to remove buds that will turn out LARF like instead of fans. I do think a lot of it is strain dependent, but in general terms I think a plant is a plant and the more leaves you remove the harder it makes it for the plant to do it's job.

Thusly I think it's better to remove buds that aren't getting any light instead of fan leaves that are. On my current run I removed a few fans, but mostly just got rid of any "budlets" that weren't developing because of a lack of light. I'm blown away by the results.

you are discussing a technique know as lollipoping your right it works, so does defoliation removing upper fan leafs most cases helps the lower bud sites get light removing any need to lollipop in the frist place not only that ANYTHING green on the plant produces energy including BUD SITES!

Who ever linked to ICmag discussion all the info anyone could want is there.

 

[blazer]

Thanks fellow farmers for info on expierence everybody makes good points but I think for me on this one I will leave it alone and I will experiment when got stable clones since I started theese from seeds so I can see side by side comparison kind of works out since I want to attempt to make some bubble hash anyways .hey cort I'm deffiintley trying the strobe with red and blue leds shit a 1,000,000 lbs lol

Peace blazer out

 

[purpleberry]

I remove 1-2-3 fan leaves almost every week for the whole plants life, to exspose tops that need light. At the last week Ill take them all before harvest to get the light down low. This is on bushy leafy gdp plants. Other strains just a few when then blocklight to a big top.
If you want to take alot like vancerz pic, I would loli pop them a little and leave the very bottom fan leaves to get light, no point in letting the light get threw to hit the soil.

 

[vancerz]

I remove 1-2-3 fan leaves almost every week for the whole plants life, to exspose tops that need light. At the last week Ill take them all before harvest to get the light down low. This is on bushy leafy gdp plants. Other strains just a few when then blocklight to a big top.
If you want to take alot like vancerz pic, I would loli pop them a little and leave the very bottom fan leaves to get light, no point in letting the light get threw to hit the soil.

that frist pic was a test on a strain i typically grow I was seeing if heavy leaf removal had a detrimental effect on my yield, it did not but it gave me a ton of smaller buds, I do not recommend anyone remove that much it was just a test and i took pictures as a reference.