Is my growroom CURSED? Plants stop eating.

[kallaserves]

Hey all, been growing NFT low pressure aero for 2 year and plants grew big and strong without any issue.

Spoiler: Pics Previous good grows

Problem started to happen 6 months ago where the rooted clones would become unhealthy and roots end up turning brown and dying. You can see strands forming between roots and eventually they form cotton like structures on the roots. At this point they no longer take in nutrients and the ph will stay the same or might even go down(normally ec goes down and ph goes up)

Spoiler: Pics of dying roots, foliage in NFT

Since then, I've had to toss out many harvests due to the same issue. Can't get any plants to uptake nutes and grow. I use the same ro 6g megacrop/gal formula as before; even tried Jacks321 to make sure that it's not the megacrop.

Spoiler: Pics of detailed formula

On my last run, I decided to switch up and do it in rockwool with jacks321. They seem to be a little better in rockwool. The roots could either be healthy or brown. For the plants with healthy white roots, upstairs still look stressed.

Spoiler: Pic of Rockwool Roots

Spoiler: pics Rockwool Foliage

I'm 99% the same thing that's affecting the previous nft grows is also affecting the rockwool grow. I did bring a friend's cloner into the veg room but that's cleaned well. I also started to use Sounther Ag fungicide (concentrated hydroguard) 1ml/50gal around the time that the issues was popping up. Perhaps one of these 2 factors brought in cyanobacteria or fusarium, I'm not entirely sure if it's a pathogen or one of my other variables is off.

Lights - Samsung Led Strips 150-350 ppfd (veg) 22' away
Day Temp/Humidity - 80F/68%
Night Temp/Humidity - 73F/73%
RO filter - .05EC 7.0ph

Some solutions I tried to apply but no avail
Heisenberg's tea and no effect
Switch to Jacks321 from megacrop
Try some plants under 600 hps (200-400 ppfd, 3ft away)

I'm all out of ideas and am about to throw in the towel. Maybe you guys can point me in the right direction.

 

[BluePowerRanger]

Seems to me you got some type of pathogen plaguing your system. Have you completely Sanitized your system? Like I mean deep clean bleach… You didn’t state your res temps? High res temps become a Breathing grounds for harmful bacteria to thrive.. your plants intial health is up for question also if one gets sick the problem will spread to everything in Hydro.. if it were me a complete deep clean and sanitize of the entire system and equipment. Is first. Dismantle all pumps and lines scrub.. process of elimination

 

[Cashmeh]

Your top picture shows light leaks. I would patch all light leaks and try to keep your res Temps around 70.

All the black and brown stuff needs rinsed off. I find it easiest to combat root rot when the roots are fully submerged. I'm sure you can fill the system for a while using the aero jets to recirculate.

Do that then add your southern ag and you should be fine. If your system is completely light proof, you will find the bacteria works way easier. Once it's gone you should be fine to switch back to your normal aero methods.

 

[BluePowerRanger]

I just noticed your ph is 7 that’s way to high for hydro bro.. your plants could not be feeding because your ph range is so out of whack aswell. Thus causing nute lockout on top of your pathogen issue… you need to drop your ph just under 6.. 5.5-5.8 is a sweet spot let it fluctuate as high as 6.2 then correct with ph down back into the sweet spot. Don’t go below 5.5 though

 

[kallaserves]

Hi Blue, I did sanitize everything, even took a 3 months break. res temp would be 75-76. The reason I am trying rockwool is because it didn't touch any of the previous pumps etc, I am hand watering them and find that they are also not too healthy which leads me to think it could be something in the air or perhaps my water source. Jungle boys sop calls for 150F for 3 hours after each harvest to kill all the spores in the air, maybe I need to try that.

Hi Cash, there's a little bit of leak near the top of the 3" cap which I should cover, but they were still growing ok. I've also tried to keep the daylight temp low at 73 and res would be at 70 but still the problem didn't go away. Right now before I even attempt to continue with the NFT method, I'd like to get the rockwool to grow healthy and even they're showing symptoms of stress (bottom set pics)

 

[BluePowerRanger]

Hi Blue, I did sanitize everything, even took a 3 months break. res temp would be 75-76. The reason I am trying rockwool is because it didn't touch any of the previous pumps etc, I am hand watering them and find that they are also not too healthy which leads me to think it could be something in the air or perhaps my water source. Jungle boys sop calls for 150F for 3 hours after each harvest to kill all the spores in the air, maybe I need to try that.

Hi Cash, there's a little bit of leak near the top of the 3" cap which I should cover, but they were still growing ok. I've also tried to keep the daylight temp low at 73 and res would be at 70 but still the problem didn't go away. Right now before I even attempt to continue with the NFT method, I'd like to get the rockwool to grow healthy and even they're showing symptoms of stress (bottom set pics)

in that case it’s def your ph 7 is way to high for hydr

Hi Blue, I did sanitize everything, even took a 3 months break. res temp would be 75-76. The reason I am trying rockwool is because it didn't touch any of the previous pumps etc, I am hand watering them and find that they are also not too healthy which leads me to think it could be something in the air or perhaps my water source. Jungle boys sop calls for 150F for 3 hours after each harvest to kill all the spores in the air, maybe I need to try that.

Hi Cash, there's a little bit of leak near the top of the 3" cap which I should cover, but they were still growing ok. I've also tried to keep the daylight temp low at 73 and res would be at 70 but still the problem didn't go away. Right now before I even attempt to continue with the NFT method, I'd like to get the rockwool to grow healthy and even they're showing symptoms of stress (bottom set pics)

Your ph is too high for hydro bud.. I’m sure your in a nute lockout situation .. once you venture out the sweet spot range for prolong periods of time nutrients become unavailable.. this creating nute lockout. Which is most likely the culprit behind your unhealthy plants.( slow growth) for sure. Get your ph down and you should see a significant difference on growth…

 

[kallaserves]

The Ph is kept 5.6-5.8 in NFT. It can get to 6.3 after a day and then I ph down to 5.6.

For Rockwool Ph, I also keep the same going in. I checked the runoff and it does go up to 6.5-7.0. Based on the thread below, Dirtbag said to not worry about the runoff ph.

Help identifying an issue? (rockwool top feeding, glueberry muffins from destiny exotic genetics)

Hello all, I will try to post as much info that seems relevant to try to gather some information from the growers on here. Media: Rockwool (Grodan Pargro Quick Drains) Feeding: Top feed with 1/4" spaghetti lines free flowing (no drip emitters) Nutrients: Veg+Bloom and Stackswell(calmag) Water...

www.thcfarmer.com

 

[kallaserves]

The RO water that comes out the filter is at .05ec and 7.0. After I put the nutes in, it's 5.5-5.8 ph

 

[Cashmeh]

I would say the overall problem is pythium. Until its gone, try to keep your res temps low. Insulate and lightproof everything x2.

Rinse roots off while massaging them until there is no slime. You can use regular tap too, its what I always did, it wont make it any worse.

When your roots have no brown, and no slime then your fine to go back to your regular aero method. You will not be able to continue unless you fix all light leaks, rinse and massage roots, insulate the system, at least not at that high of water temps.

If your temps were 70 constant, you wouldnt have this problem, which is why I also suggest throwing a blanket around all of it, or something. Ive used towels for light proofing and insulation. Right now my res has a blanket over it due to it getting to cold. The insulation also helps light proof.

Its actually an easy fix, just irritating. Then once you understand the cause, and how you fixed it, its so easy after that. You just ran into a small problem that can ruin your future aero progress, dont let it do that. Stay right where you are. . the growth rates you will see when compared to all of us will be fun to watch.

 

[BluePowerRanger]

I didn’t see you uploaded pics. I’m still new to this site. I didn’t see the spoiler option but yeah I concur that light exposure is catastrophic in hydro

 

[kallaserves]

I agree with you guys, light leaks leads to a lot of problems, I need to cut out some coverings and just put it on top of the collars.

You guys got me thinking and I went over my old notes. This thing did start to happen sometime around when I stopped using hydroguard and went with the southern ag fungicide, which is supposed to much much more concentrated. I haven't used either product this time around, but I did put some great white into the res, which didn't do anything.

I used 1ml/gal of hydroguard in a 50gal tank which gave me 500,000 CFus(10,000cfus/ml x 50 gal) of Bacillus amyloliquefaciens.

I used 1ml/50gal of this southern ag which gave me 10 billion Cfus which comes out to be 20,000x stronger than the application of Hydroguard!

Maybe the southern ag colonies died or had some other bad stuff in it. Or maybe Hydroguard's formulation is just better. I will go back to Hydroguard and see if there's any changes. Currently I haven't used either product

 

[kallaserves]

Hey guys, a little update.

I put the hydroguard in it for a week(2ml/gal). I find that while they're growing some new shoots, but eventually they become orange and also get sick. They're also not really eating or taking up enough water. Before I used hydroguard, they'd all become brown and no more new white roots come out. I suppose there is some benefit.

I decided to cut them down and start new clones with hydroguard in from day1. Here are some pics of the webbing on the roots (this root hasn't been watered in 12 hours, getting ready to toss out)

 

[KeystoneHempNursery]

Hey all, been growing NFT low pressure aero for 2 year and plants grew big and strong without any issue.

Spoiler: Pics Previous good grows

View attachment 1170220View attachment 1170221View attachment 1170222View attachment 1170223View attachment 1170224

Problem started to happen 6 months ago where the rooted clones would become unhealthy and roots end up turning brown and dying. You can see strands forming between roots and eventually they form cotton like structures on the roots. At this point they no longer take in nutrients and the ph will stay the same or might even go down(normally ec goes down and ph goes up)

Spoiler: Pics of dying roots, foliage in NFT

View attachment 1170225View attachment 1170228View attachment 1170229View attachment 1170230View attachment 1170231View attachment 1170232

Since then, I've had to toss out many harvests due to the same issue. Can't get any plants to uptake nutes and grow. I use the same ro 6g megacrop/gal formula as before; even tried Jacks321 to make sure that it's not the megacrop.

Spoiler: Pics of detailed formula

View attachment 1170236View attachment 1170237

On my last run, I decided to switch up and do it in rockwool with jacks321. They seem to be a little better in rockwool. The roots could either be healthy or brown. For the plants with healthy white roots, upstairs still look stressed.

Spoiler: Pic of Rockwool Roots

View attachment 1170238View attachment 1170239View attachment 1170242

Spoiler: pics Rockwool Foliage

View attachment 1170243View attachment 1170244View attachment 1170245View attachment 1170246

I'm 99% the same thing that's affecting the previous nft grows is also affecting the rockwool grow. I did bring a friend's cloner into the veg room but that's cleaned well. I also started to use Sounther Ag fungicide (concentrated hydroguard) 1ml/50gal around the time that the issues was popping up. Perhaps one of these 2 factors brought in cyanobacteria or fusarium, I'm not entirely sure if it's a pathogen or one of my other variables is off.

Lights - Samsung Led Strips 150-350 ppfd (veg) 22' away
Day Temp/Humidity - 80F/68%
Night Temp/Humidity - 73F/73%
RO filter - .05EC 7.0ph

Some solutions I tried to apply but no avail
Heisenberg's tea and no effect
Switch to Jacks321 from megacrop
Try some plants under 600 hps (200-400 ppfd, 3ft away)

I'm all out of ideas and am about to throw in the towel. Maybe you guys can point me in the right direction.

H202 and aquarium uv sterilizer circulator pump…eBay $30-40. That will stop all pathogens in reservoir

 

[Aqua Man]

Ok so in RW

Hey all, been growing NFT low pressure aero for 2 year and plants grew big and strong without any issue.

Spoiler: Pics Previous good grows

View attachment 1170220View attachment 1170221View attachment 1170222View attachment 1170223View attachment 1170224

Problem started to happen 6 months ago where the rooted clones would become unhealthy and roots end up turning brown and dying. You can see strands forming between roots and eventually they form cotton like structures on the roots. At this point they no longer take in nutrients and the ph will stay the same or might even go down(normally ec goes down and ph goes up)

Spoiler: Pics of dying roots, foliage in NFT

View attachment 1170225View attachment 1170228View attachment 1170229View attachment 1170230View attachment 1170231View attachment 1170232

Since then, I've had to toss out many harvests due to the same issue. Can't get any plants to uptake nutes and grow. I use the same ro 6g megacrop/gal formula as before; even tried Jacks321 to make sure that it's not the megacrop.

Spoiler: Pics of detailed formula

View attachment 1170236View attachment 1170237

On my last run, I decided to switch up and do it in rockwool with jacks321. They seem to be a little better in rockwool. The roots could either be healthy or brown. For the plants with healthy white roots, upstairs still look stressed.

Spoiler: Pic of Rockwool Roots

View attachment 1170238View attachment 1170239View attachment 1170242

Spoiler: pics Rockwool Foliage

View attachment 1170243View attachment 1170244View attachment 1170245View attachment 1170246

I'm 99% the same thing that's affecting the previous nft grows is also affecting the rockwool grow. I did bring a friend's cloner into the veg room but that's cleaned well. I also started to use Sounther Ag fungicide (concentrated hydroguard) 1ml/50gal around the time that the issues was popping up. Perhaps one of these 2 factors brought in cyanobacteria or fusarium, I'm not entirely sure if it's a pathogen or one of my other variables is off.

Lights - Samsung Led Strips 150-350 ppfd (veg) 22' away
Day Temp/Humidity - 80F/68%
Night Temp/Humidity - 73F/73%
RO filter - .05EC 7.0ph

Some solutions I tried to apply but no avail
Heisenberg's tea and no effect
Switch to Jacks321 from megacrop
Try some plants under 600 hps (200-400 ppfd, 3ft away)

I'm all out of ideas and am about to throw in the towel. Maybe you guys can point me in the right direction.

What are you measuring the ppfd with?

Are you running a res for your nutes?

I think I read your ph can drift a shit ton in a day and @Dirtbag is right about the ph out but the ph of the media is important.

Use a syringe to draw directly from the bottom 1/4 of the RW and test it at multiple periods, eg right after watering and right before the next event to see how much it's changing in that period. I'm betting pretty significantly.

I'm pretty certain you have an alkalinity issue and a very unstable ph.

On top of that you have a bacterial issue that's infecting the roots.

Roots exposed to air need to have very high humidity like 100% or they air prune and any damage is a vector for infection.

Are you using h202 or any root products include everything, enzymes, hydrogaurd, clear rez all that stuff.

Watering frequency and volume?

Healthy roots and plants generally resist infection when it's not overwhelming silica is a good addition for both roots and plant to resist infection, heat and water stress.

In your res how much does the oh change in a 24hr period?

I have a few more things but start there.

 

[chemistry]

Hey guys, a little update.

I put the hydroguard in it for a week(2ml/gal). I find that while they're growing some new shoots, but eventually they become orange and also get sick. They're also not really eating or taking up enough water. Before I used hydroguard, they'd all become brown and no more new white roots come out. I suppose there is some benefit.

View attachment 1172927

I decided to cut them down and start new clones with hydroguard in from day1. Here are some pics of the webbing on the roots (this root hasn't been watered in 12 hours, getting ready to toss out)

View attachment 1172928

First pic, is your main root being strangled by the pot/lid its growing through? Restricted flow will cause root rot, as it limits uptake of fluids.

 

[zavy]

my oppinion is poltergeist

 

[kallaserves]

Ok so in RW

What are you measuring the ppfd with?

Apogee Sq-520

Are you running a res for your nutes?

NFT recirculate res is 10 gallons, 4ml/gal calimagic, Jacks 321, comes to 1.7 ec 5.5 ph. I have been using hydroguard 2ml/gal for the last week
Rockwool dtw, hand water from a 5gallon pail i'd mix, usually same formula as above.

I think I read your ph can drift a shit ton in a day and @Dirtbag is right about the ph out but the ph of the media is important.

I do suspect a ph issue, in order to rule out my blue lab, I'm getting another one today and will be testing...

Use a syringe to draw directly from the bottom 1/4 of the RW and test it at multiple periods, eg right after watering and right before the next event to see how much it's changing in that period. I'm betting pretty significantly.

previously I was giving full 1.7ec 5.5 ph mix to the rockwool without any runoff, but I decided to give it some .6ec mix to flush some salt out and I saw over 4EC, 6-6.8ph so there was definitely a build of up in the rockwool. Since then, I've given all the rockwool a light nutrient rinse.

I'm pretty certain you have an alkalinity issue and a very unstable ph.

When everything was working before in NFT recirculate, New batch of nutrients could be 5.3 and overnight they will go up to 6.3, EC would go down and I know they've ate well and are growing. They were just robust and tolerated a lot more. The question is, do my symptoms match a high alkaline environment? (pics are of mother plants, woody stem, purple stem, red petiole extending to leaf, leaf twist, slow growth)

On top of that you have a bacterial issue that's infecting the roots.

Now no matter what I give, they don't drink water or take up EC. Initial good white roots do come out but after some time they become orange and get infected. If I were to cut open the rockwool, most older roots will look orange.

Roots exposed to air need to have very high humidity like 100% or they air prune and any damage is a vector for infection.

They get 4 second spray every 10 min so they're kept in a very humid environment. Rockwool is kept moist

Are you using h202 or any root products include everything, enzymes, hydrogaurd, clear rez all that stuff.

Just hydroguard 2ml/gal, 2tsp great white/10gallon currently. I have tried the great white before on its own and heisenberg tea to fight the problem in recirculate nft but they didn't do anything. Hydroguard does seem to make them hang on a little bit more with new root growth but eventually the new growth will also be attacked and turn orange.

Watering frequency and volume?

NFT recirculate 4sec on/10min off 24 hours. Rockwool I hand water a 4x4 block about 100-200 ml a day when lights come on, drain to waste.

Healthy roots and plants generally resist infection when it's not overwhelming silica is a good addition for both roots and plant to resist infection, heat and water stress.

I completely agree with this statement. I do add .5ml/gal of protekt.

In your res how much does the oh change in a 24hr period?

NFT 10gal res does not change at all, infact ph can go down from 5.5 to 5.4 in 3 days if a new batch. Rockwool is dtw

I have a few more things but start there.

Thank you for the help man. Before all this happened, they were growing fast with vigour, everyday my 20gal res will go down .5ec and ph will go up to 6.2 and I'd have to phd again. I see the same root issue in rockwool as I see in the NFT rails. So the issue must be something that they both share.

There are a few things I suspect could be causing this.

1. I switched from hydroguard to southern fungicide ag. I fed 1ml/res change of fungicide which gave a load of bacillus amy. That's around the time I saw root issues. since then, I'm only using hydroguard and this current batch of clones I'm introducing hydroguard(2ml/gal) from day1.

2. my ph pen could be problematic, I am able to calibrate between 7 and 4 but the way and speed it moves is a bit odd. It will read 6.0 in container A. but if I put it in container B, it will go to 5.0. Now if I put it back into container A, it will stay around 5.1 for 10 minutes. buying a new one to test today.

3. My RO comes to .02ec and 6.0ph, when everything worked it was 7.2 ph, not sure if something in my water supply changed or my PH pen has issues.

ruled out nutes, tried both jacks and megacrop

Currently it's 82F 80% at canopy(LST is 79-80) and room is at 78F 83%. My Co2 meter shows it go down from 1200-360 in a period of 10 hours.

 

[Aqua Man]

Apogee Sq-520

NFT recirculate res is 10 gallons, 4ml/gal calimagic, Jacks 321, comes to 1.7 ec 5.5 ph. I have been using hydroguard 2ml/gal for the last week
Rockwool dtw, hand water from a 5gallon pail i'd mix, usually same formula as above.

I do suspect a ph issue, in order to rule out my blue lab, I'm getting another one today and will be testing...

previously I was giving full 1.7ec 5.5 ph mix to the rockwool without any runoff, but I decided to give it some .6ec mix to flush some salt out and I saw over 4EC, 6-6.8ph so there was definitely a build of up in the rockwool. Since then, I've given all the rockwool a light nutrient rinse.

When everything was working before in NFT recirculate, New batch of nutrients could be 5.3 and overnight they will go up to 6.3, EC would go down and I know they've ate well and are growing. They were just robust and tolerated a lot more. The question is, do my symptoms match a high alkaline environment? (pics are of mother plants, woody stem, purple stem, red petiole extending to leaf, leaf twist, slow growth)
View attachment 1173197View attachment 1173198View attachment 1173199View attachment 1173200


Now no matter what I give, they don't drink water or take up EC. Initial good white roots do come out but after some time they become orange and get infected. If I were to cut open the rockwool, most older roots will look orange.
View attachment 1173193




They get 4 second spray every 10 min so they're kept in a very humid environment. Rockwool is kept moist

Just hydroguard 2ml/gal, 2tsp great white/10gallon currently. I have tried the great white before on its own and heisenberg tea to fight the problem in recirculate nft but they didn't do anything. Hydroguard does seem to make them hang on a little bit more with new root growth but eventually the new growth will also be attacked and turn orange.

NFT recirculate 4sec on/10min off 24 hours. Rockwool I hand water a 4x4 block about 100-200 ml a day when lights come on, drain to waste.

I completely agree with this statement. I do add .5ml/gal of protekt.

NFT 10gal res does not change at all, infact ph can go down from 5.5 to 5.4 in 3 days if a new batch. Rockwool is dtw

Thank you for the help man. Before all this happened, they were growing fast with vigour, everyday my 20gal res will go down .5ec and ph will go up to 6.2 and I'd have to phd again. I see the same root issue in rockwool as I see in the NFT rails. So the issue must be something that they both share.

There are a few things I suspect could be causing this.

1. I switched from hydroguard to southern fungicide ag. I fed 1ml/res change of fungicide which gave a load of bacillus amy. That's around the time I saw root issues. since then, I'm only using hydroguard and this current batch of clones I'm introducing hydroguard(2ml/gal) from day1.

2. my ph pen could be problematic, I am able to calibrate between 7 and 4 but the way and speed it moves is a bit odd. It will read 6.0 in container A. but if I put it in container B, it will go to 5.0. Now if I put it back into container A, it will stay around 5.1 for 10 minutes. buying a new one to test today.

3. My RO comes to .02ec and 6.0ph, when everything worked it was 7.2 ph, not sure if something in my water supply changed or my PH pen has issues.

ruled out nutes, tried both jacks and megacrop

Currently it's 82F 80% at canopy(LST is 79-80) and room is at 78F 83%. My Co2 meter shows it go down from 1200-360 in a period of 10 hours.

Ok read this. Tied up for a lil bit here. But the ph drift is way to much over 24hrs. What form of silica are you using? Silicon dioxide I assume?

I also think the rw is being way under watered at 100-200ml a day in a 4" you need run off. And yes you can dial that all back but for now I'd say back to basics with more runoff than needed to get things stable.

Anything more than a 0.3 increase in ph over 24 hrs imo is to much. That causes stress and then things start to go off elsewhere. Light tolerance goes down etc. And salinity has a huge impact on water uptake so nutrient buildup will show signs of over feeding then starvation. Imo you can run around 1.2 ec with good runoff and things should improve. In those temps I would think you need to feed more often.

Ph of the RO doesn't matter in fact ph itself is a result and not something that tells the whole story. Read this post and I'll check back in a bit.

Marijuana pH Levels for Growing Weed: A Basic Explanation

OK I'm going to do my best to explain PH since its something that is for the most part greatly misunderstood and can be confusing to new growers and even experienced growers alike. This will explain why we need both ppm and PH meters to give us informed information about PH This will be a...

www.thcfarmer.com

 

[kallaserves]

Thanks for the quick reply Aquaman. I will do what you recommend and give more watering in rockwool with 1.2ec. Would you water it even if it's still pretty saturated? My fear is the roots drowning in rockwool.

This is the dyna protekt, I find that it just buffers the ph and makes the solution .2 higher.

 

[Aqua Man]

Thanks for the quick reply Aquaman. I will do what you recommend and give more watering in rockwool with 1.2ec. Would you water it even if it's still pretty saturated? My fear is the roots drowning in rockwool.

This is the dyna protekt, I find that it just buffers the ph and makes the solution .2 higher.

View attachment 1173224

Allow some dry back you don't want them wet all the time but you definitely don't want em to dry... I would start by feed more volume so your getting good runoff like 20% for now and check the dryback between cycles.