Issue, Blackberry Auto, Please Help

[Newty]

This is my 2nd time growing Autos, the 1st time was 1 mystery auto from Fast Buds.
Both grows started having this issue during flowering.
I was told I was over feeding and then was abandoned/received no more help, hopefully someone can help me find the cause and correct it properly this time.

I'm feeding 1/2 the strength of nutrients for these Autos compared to the 1st one I grew.
I'm also growing in Pro-Mix HP-M (no nutes), first grow was in Fox Farm (has nutes).

CALIMAGIC (1-0-0) - 5 ml/gal
FloraMicro (5-0-1) - 2.5 ml/gal
FloraGro (2-1-6) - 2.5 ml/gal
FloraBloom (0-5-4) - 2.5 ml/gal

I'm nutrient deficiency and toxicity stupid, I'm a photoperiod grower with years of growing them with no issues with nutrients so this is all very new to me.

Link to Diary if needed
Thread 'Newty's Fast Buds Blackberry Auto, feat. Spider Farmer SE4500' https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/newtys-fast-buds-blackberry-auto-feat-spider-farmer-se4500.163301/

 

[Itscheese94]

This is my 2nd time growing Autos, the 1st time was 1 mystery auto from Fast Buds.
Both grows started having this issue during flowering.
I was told I was over feeding and then was abandoned/received no more help, hopefully someone can help me find the cause and correct it properly this time.

I'm feeding 1/2 the strength of nutrients for these Autos compared to the 1st one I grew.
I'm also growing in Pro-Mix HP-M (no nutes), first grow was in Fox Farm (has nutes).

CALIMAGIC (1-0-0) - 5 ml/gal
FloraMicro (5-0-1) - 2.5 ml/gal
FloraGro (2-1-6) - 2.5 ml/gal
FloraBloom (0-5-4) - 2.5 ml/gal

I'm nutrient deficiency and toxicity stupid, I'm a photoperiod grower with years of growing them with no issues with nutrients so this is all very new to me.

Link to Diary if needed
Thread 'Newty's Fast Buds Blackberry Auto, feat. Spider Farmer SE4500' https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/newtys-fast-buds-blackberry-auto-feat-spider-farmer-se4500.163301/
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you anyway of checking the ph in the soil newty, my guess is the ph in the soil is under 6.0. also when the soil drys out the ec / ppm rises. therefore shows has like a nutrient burn when the soil drys out. i would continue to feed them, but makes sure the soil dose not dry out too much in between watering. maybe that will help. they also tend to do that alot under led when the soil drys out.

 

[Newty]

you anyway of checking the ph in the soil newty, my guess is the ph in the soil is under 6.0. also when the soil drys out the ec / ppm rises. therefore shows has like a nutrient burn when the soil drys out. i would continue to feed them, but makes sure the soil dose not dry out too much in between watering. maybe that will help. they also tend to do that alot under led when the soil drys out.

The soil has buffers for ph, I've never tested soil ph in my life and never have issues with Photoperiods.
I can get some strips or something and do a slurry test, I guess you never know. Could be the Autos are just more sensitive to it.

I use the AC Infinity Self-Watering Bases so they always have water, the 1st auto I grew did the same thing but they were not in the bases, they were hand watered.
I grew Photoperiods in these bases with no issues with same brand soil and nutes as the 1st auto I grew with no issues at all and even used more nutrients then the Autos.

Seems to only happen when I hit the flower stage, veg stage has no issues.
Doesn't matter if it's Fox Farm or Pro-Mix.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Newty]

I prefer synthetic nutes with Photoperiods and is why I use the same for Autos, maybe I should try organic with Autos next run.

 

[Itscheese94]

The soil has buffers for ph, I've never tested soil ph in my life and never have issues with Photoperiods.
I can get some strips or something and do a slurry test, I guess you never know. Could be the Autos are just more sensitive to it.

I use the AC Infinity Self-Watering Bases so they always have water, the 1st auto I grew did the same thing but they were not in the bases, they were hand watered.
I grew Photoperiods in these bases with no issues with same brand soil and nutes as the 1st auto I grew with no issues at all and even used more nutrients then the Autos.

Seems to only happen when I hit the flower stage, veg stage has no issues.
Doesn't matter if it's Fox Farm or Pro-Mix.

Thanks for the reply!

the buffers run out overtime bud, thats when you get the ph dropping and stuff. normally runs out around week 4 in the soil. do you repot the photo plants by any chance, or are they in the same pots has the autos newty.

 

[Newty]

the buffers run out overtime bud, thats when you get the ph dropping and stuff. normally runs out around week 4 in the soil. do you repot the photo plants by any chance, or are they in the same pots has the autos newty.

They start in solo cups but then transplanted into 3 gallon where they stay until harvested.
Years like this and never observed toxicity or deficiency signs.
Always 2 parts Ocean Forest to 1 part Happy Frog.
Just started using Pro-Mix this grow for the Autos, used same Fox Farm as above the last Auto with same issue.

 

[Itscheese94]

They start in solo cups but then transplanted into 3 gallon where they stay until harvested.
Years like this and never observed toxicity or deficiency signs.
Always 2 parts Ocean Forest to 1 part Happy Frog.
Just started using Pro-Mix this grow for the Autos, used same Fox Farm as above the last Auto with same issue.

dno maybe its the strain the newty, some are more finicky then others. with the autos next you could maybe try a bigger pot size. maybe that should help to crazy has it sounds i normally repot them. a few weeks in little pots then in a decent size one. exactly like you mentioned above.

 

[Newty]

dno maybe its the strain the newty, some are more finicky then others. with the autos next you could maybe try a bigger pot size. maybe that should help to crazy has it sounds i normally repot them. a few weeks in little pots then in a decent size one. exactly like you mentioned above.

The roots on these actually grew into my self-watering bases, maybe since the roots are directly in contact with the water it's causing issues.
Idk, the first Auto was a Fast Buds strain also but a mystery strain.
Next run won't be Fast Buds.

I plan to go to 5 gallon next run because of the roots growing down the wicks into the bases.

I'll definitely do a slurry test for soil ph as you suggested.

 

[organicbr016]

I prefer synthetic nutes with Photoperiods and is why I use the same for Autos, maybe I should try organic with Autos next run.

I am using organic for autos and has been very good..
automatic plants does not allow you to make mistakes.. so organic should work well on that.. and taste of terpenes gets incredible!

 

[Newty]

I am using organic for autos and has been very good..
automatic plants does not allow you to make mistakes.. so organic should work well on that.. and taste of terpenes gets incredible!

I wish I knew what mistake I was making, kind of driving me nuts lol

Just not sure what to do.

From the charts I've seen, it looks like Calcium toxicity and magnesium deficiency, which is a sign of Calcium toxicity.
Which Alkaline Soil conditions can be the cause of, @Itscheese94 soil ph theory might be answer

Still find it weird it shows in the Autos but not Photoperiods that stay in the soil for 2x-3x longer then the Autos.

Might just try something like Gaia Green next run.

 

[Itscheese94]

The roots on these actually grew into my self-watering bases, maybe since the roots are directly in contact with the water it's causing issues.
Idk, the first Auto was a Fast Buds strain also but a mystery strain.
Next run won't be Fast Buds.

I plan to go to 5 gallon next run because of the roots growing down the wicks into the bases.

I'll definitely do a slurry test for soil ph as you suggested.

sounds good man, yeah the 5 gallons should be way better. probably will be bigger plants to.

 

[Newty]

This definitely has to be part of the problem, those are the roots inside the self-watering bases. Which means the plant is getting water (not ph adjusted) directly from the bases instead of from the soil, along with the nutrients.
Plus how much can the wicks actually suck up water when they're covered in roots?

So I need to either treat it like hydro now and go get my air pump and put them into the bases.
What about just taking all the water out and filling the bottom with medium and hand watering from now on?

Definitely getting 5 gallon pots for next grow

 

[R4V3N]

Just spitballing here, but could you have started the bloom nutes too soon? They look a little N deficient, it might have dropped before the plant was ready. As others are saying the pH could simply be off too. It's probably a little 'root confused' as in, It's getting the lower side of pH direct from the reservoir, but getting a higher pH from the soil above. Top roots might be being neglected by the plant, in favor for the 'Hydro' direct feeding route, which might cause them to drop foliage. Its a semi-hydro grow. I've watched growers videos using these pots, they seem to use coco more because its so absorbent, it gets the same nutes throughout the pot quicker.

Did this thing burst through the actual fabric pot bottom? I'm about to buy 4x of these self watering bases, and I'm wondering if reinforcing the base of the pots first with inserting another cut up fabric pot base before the soil, would prevent this from happening?

 

[BearWater]

This definitely has to be part of the problem, those are the roots inside the self-watering bases. Which means the plant is getting water (not ph adjusted) directly from the bases instead of from the soil, along with the nutrients.
Plus how much can the wicks actually suck up water when they're covered in roots?

So I need to either treat it like hydro now and go get my air pump and put them into the bases.
What about just taking all the water out and filling the bottom with medium and hand watering from now on?

Definitely getting 5 gallon pots for next grow
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Good job? Hahaha! Thats badass in a sense but totally get why its not ideal : )

 

[Newty]

Just spitballing here, but could you have started the bloom nutes too soon? They look a little N deficient, it might have dropped before the plant was ready. As others are saying the pH could simply be off too. It's probably a little 'root confused' as in, It's getting the lower side of pH direct from the reservoir, but getting a higher pH from the soil above. Top roots might be being neglected by the plant, in favor for the 'Hydro' direct feeding route, which might cause them to drop foliage. Its a semi-hydro grow. I've watched growers videos using these pots, they seem to use coco more because its so absorbent, it gets the same nutes throughout the pot quicker.

Did this thing burst through the actual fabric pot bottom? I'm about to buy 4x of these self watering bases, and I'm wondering if reinforcing the base of the pots first with inserting another cut up fabric pot base before the soil, would prevent this from happening?

So I follow along pretty specific chart for the Flora nutrients, I'm actually still on my veg dose because in early flower I seen this starting to happen and didn't want to change anything. The feeding chart also doesn't stop dropping N until the last few weeks.
I've used the chart successfully over and over again with photoperiods, I know Autos are different so I'm doing changes slower.

If you're looking at self-watering bases, check out Spider Farmers new self-watering system, has a reservoir instead of filling individual.

I was wondering if an Autopot root control disc they use for their system would work if I placed it in the bottom of the fabric pot.
Issues is the wicks would still need to pass through it and from what I see with my roots is they grew right down the wick.

I'll checkout the actual bottom of the fabric pot and get back to you. I really hope it didn't trash the bags, a little more drainage wouldn't hurt though

 

[Newty]

Good job? Hahaha! Thats badass in a sense but totally get why its not ideal : )

Pretty wild, definitely didn't expect that to happen. Hell the Rainbow Belts x Okie I grew in the same pots with the same bases for a 8 week Veg and 13 week Flower didn't even grow through.
Tells us a lot about Autoflower root systems.

 

[Newty]

I know it's not ideal in flower but I wonder if I can just prune the roots right where they exit the pot and finish the grow by hand watering.

 

[Newty]

The fabric pots are damage free.
The wicks and roots pulled right off. Smaller amount of roots grew down the wick and once they hit the water, they spread like crazy.
The self-watering bases only keep the bottom 1/3 of the pot wet and roots seek out water, this could mean the upper 2/3 of the pot could not have the root system it would with top watering and saturating the whole pot.
Something to keep in mind for anyone wanting to use SIP systems, may want to top water for awhile during veg or maybe just every now and then throughout the whole grow.

Even though the bases were full of water, the bottom of the pots were dry like the roots kept the water from being able to absorb and travel through the wicks.

I went ahead and emptied the bases and cleaned them.
Put some Liquid Karma and Pure Blend Tea into 0 ppm water and gave each plant 1.5 quarts from the top of the pot.

Interestingly the smallest plant had the most/craziest roots, then the largest, the middle sized plant was just starting to take off on 1 of the wick ends so luckily I decided to do this today.

I should probably update my diary with all this

 

[BearWater]

Even though the bases were full of water, the bottom of the pots were dry like the roots kept the water from being able to absorb and travel through the wicks.

Is this the culprit?

 

[Galgrows]

The fabric pots are damage free.
The wicks and roots pulled right off. Smaller amount of roots grew down the wick and once they hit the water, they spread like crazy.
The self-watering bases only keep the bottom 1/3 of the pot wet and roots seek out water, this could mean the upper 2/3 of the pot could not have the root system it would with top watering and saturating the whole pot.
Something to keep in mind for anyone wanting to use SIP systems, may want to top water for awhile during veg or maybe just every now and then throughout the whole grow.

Even though the bases were full of water, the bottom of the pots were dry like the roots kept the water from being able to absorb and travel through the wicks.

I went ahead and emptied the bases and cleaned them.
Put some Liquid Karma and Pure Blend Tea into 0 ppm water and gave each plant 1.5 quarts from the top of the pot.

Interestingly the smallest plant had the most/craziest roots, then the largest, the middle sized plant was just starting to take off on 1 of the wick ends so luckily I decided to do this today.

I should probably update my diary with all this
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Man that's weird looking. Good going finding out early, sorry it's a auto though hopefully it won't bother the growth going forward.